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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

It upsets me to hear what a nice time he's having

172 replies

Zayna99 · 16/02/2007 11:50

DP is away visiting his 9 year old DD. BM is there also, they meet halfway and stay in hotels. If anyone has read any of my posts, I'm not allowed anywhere near their DD, DP blames mother and says she poisons her DD against me. My name can't even be mentioned in conversation.

He went on Valentines day, which really upset me. Then last night he phoned me and he tells me what they've been doing, and what a nice time they're having. He even said 'it made up for Valentines day'. That hurt.

He says I should be pleased for him that he is getting to see his DD. Of course I am, but I feel like I'm getting my nose rubbed in it. I don't want to hear about what a wonderful time they're having, while I'm binned off and not allowed to be part of any of it.

I haven't done anything wrong. I didn't split him and his ex up, they were already parted when we got together, but his ex hates my guts. I met DD once, with mothers permission last year, and mother freaked out and has forbidden any more visits.

I want to tell him that I don't want to hear about his DD any more. He can't include me when he feels like it but then tell me his DD is nothing to do with me.

I sent some really harsh texts to him last night but I feel so left out, it hurts so much. Good for him that he's having a lovely time, but I'm left here at Christmas, Valentines day and also Easter this year... I don't want to hear what a wonderful time they're all having. Is that wrong?

OP posts:
Cappuccino · 21/02/2007 11:19

and for christs sake, my dad lived hundreds of miles away from me when I was little

and I don't have a great deal of time for him but he did drive all the way, every fortnight, to take me out for a day

this hotels business is baloney. no-one does it like that

CatBert · 21/02/2007 11:37

I have to ask, because I have whizzed through and not seen any mention...

In three years, the mother has had NO relationship of any kind with another man? And if she did? Would she keep HIM separate too? Now lets imagine a bloke in HER life letting her go off and pretend at happy families in a hotel several times a year shall we? Um... Right. No he I don't believe he would.

And if she does have someone in her life - then does your DP get to dictate that his DD does not see him?

I agree he is burying his head in the sand and being a total non-confrontational, passive-aggresive excuse for a man. Sorry.

Zayna99 · 21/02/2007 11:52

No, mother has not had any relationships whatsoever.

OP posts:
catsmother · 21/02/2007 12:01

This is all so completely wrong - on several levels. I'd lay money on the fact that sooner or later SD will find out that her dad (and probably her mum) have been lying to her, and this will almost certainly affect her adversely.

A standin ...... oh FFS ! This is NOT about you wanting to play mummies, it's simply about you wanting to be a full and respected member of your partner's family. So far as SD is concerned, I get the impression that you'd simply like to meet the girl, be friendly to her and share her company every so often. It's about being considered important enough, in your DP's eyes, for him to actually admit you exist ....

.... that comment though, IMO, is very telling. What are the odds that the ex has put her foot down and demanded that you never meet SD because she does not want another woman to get anywhere remotely close to SD ? And DP of course, is being so bloody lily livered about all of this, that instead of turning round and telling the ex that he is an adult and quite capable of choosing the company his daughter keeps and the places she stays, he simply rolls over and then, takes all his frustration out on you.

FWIW, my partner has children, who, when he sees them, involves driving 400+ miles on a weekend to bring them back here (his ex won't share any part of the driving). There are a whole host of practical solutions he could employ which would avoid staying in a hotel (which, as Cappucino said before, is a totally false environment to see anyone in, especially a child). For example, instead of trying to see the child for a few days here and there, he could have her for a whole week or more during school holidays at his home.

I feel all this hotel/distance business is a smoke screen and that at the end of the day, it's not about convenience, it's certainly not about what's best for the child (especially as it's based on a lie), but all about what his ex dictates. How can he possibly believe, even if you didn't exist, that only ever seeing his daughter in a hotel is remotely "normal" ? It's even more abnormal to see her in those circumstances, with the ex in tow, and the 3 of them presumably going out together, eating together and so on. One thing you still haven't clarified is how exactly SD views this situation ...... does she know her parents are actually separated ? Even if she did, I bet she's hoping they're going to reconcile (naturally, if she sees her parents apparently getting on together) - and it doesn't look as though anyone is putting her straight on that (the "it would break her heart" comment) ..... and if on top of that she believes daddy is single, she's even more likely to hope her parents will get back together and they'll all live together happily ever after one day.

Boy oh boy .... this man is potentially storing up so much trouble for himself here. More importantly, his daughter could end up feeling betrayed if what she's always been led to believe isn't going to happen ....

.... which leads me to something else which troubles me about your situation. I apologise if the thought of this upsets you, but I can't help wondering if your partner is maybe harbouring thoughts of getting back with his ex one day himself ?

I also feel very sorry for his extended family who are also being prevented from seeing their granddaughte/neice. Have you ever been able to speak to any of them about all of this ? What do they think ? It seems extraordinary that once again (presumably) he is kowtowing to the ex's demands, resulting in all contact with the grandparents being cut. They must be terribly upset, because obviously the child must know they exist ?

I keep thinking about your story and I feel furious on your behalf. For him to swear at you like that was dreadful. You say you have experience of nobheads, well, in my book, someone who denied I existed and who swore at me when all I was trying to explain was that I wanted to be involved fully in his life - which he refuses to consider and/or make happen, is right up there on the nobhead scale. It is so demeaning and so horribly dismissive of you for him to be like this. YOU are the woman in his life now, he has chosen to be with YOU ..... yet his bloody ex takes precedence 101%. I can't think of a single reason why anyone would deserve to be treated so contemptuously and I'm sure you could do much better. I honestly feel that anyone living like this would end up having a nervous breakdown ...... could you really stand it for xxx more years ?

I know that previously I suggested counselling - I'm not so sure now. The more you say, I'm afraid that the impression I get of your DP is that of a cuckolded (by the ex) yet arrogant (towards you) selfish coward. Selfish ?? ........ yep, you are apparently "good enough" to provide adult company for him (with all that entails) and to ease his finances by sharing his bills, yet you are not "good enough" for him to introduce you to his daughter, nor does he value you enough to take the necessary steps to ensure continued contact with his daughter should his ex get nasty once you are admitted to.

My gut instinct is that he doesn't really want you in his life - not to that extent - and while I'm sure the ex is part of that, it also indicates to me that he doesn't view you as a serious/long-term proposition. And that, frankly, after 3 years together is extremely insulting and if I'm right, he's stringing you along, wasting your time.

I would get out. I couldn't be with anyone who didn't respect me. It wouldn't matter if he was a good conversationalist, good company, a good lover, witty, a charming dinner companion, someone who shared my interests and so on ...... if that same man also pretended I didn't exist when it suited him, I would feel there was something very fundamentally wrong. How dare he use you like this ?

Cappuccino · 21/02/2007 12:02

zayna I'm not coming back to this thread cos I have to work

but you know that this isn't just to do with his daughter and you, don't you? from the things you've said I think you do

don't be conned into believing that's all this is about

Cappuccino · 21/02/2007 12:04

I just crossposted with catsmother

hip hip hooray for her post

Zayna99 · 21/02/2007 12:09

Catsmother, that is one heck of a post, thank you so much. There's a lot in it that I need to digest...

OP posts:
wartywarthog · 21/02/2007 12:19

yup. what catsmother said.

Zayna99 · 21/02/2007 12:52

The more crap he spouts, the more I think he's as mad as his ex... wtf is the poor kid going to turn out like?

OP posts:
lizziemun · 21/02/2007 12:55

I have been reading your post's and replies, i agree with what catsmother has said.

I would suggest that you realy need to think about what you want, as it all seems to be about what he wants.

He doesn't want you involved in his family life. But he wants you to give up your job, sell your house and move to the country so he can live the life that he wants.

Sorry if this offends i realy don't mean to but it realy sounds like he just wants your money because if you go ahead and move to the country with him and it doesn't work out you could lose everything.

You need to make him understand that either he treats you with respect and love that you show him or he finds somewhere else to live.

Zayna99 · 21/02/2007 13:16

This is so hard. I so wanted everything between us to work out. There is so much that I love about him and about our relationship. When DD comes into it, he is like a different person, it's like he's obsessed with her and wracked with guilt. And I get the brunt of it, every time.

OP posts:
Paddlechick666 · 21/02/2007 13:33

Hi Zayna

There's soom pretty strong but good advice here and I can empathise with struggling to make a decision.

My situation is totally diff to yours but I am a step-mum to 4 kids that I see in varying degrees of regularity. The mum of the younger two constantly messes us about but has always told me how much she appreciates the relationship the skids have with me. Her withdrawal of access destroys dh and she knows it tho.

Anyway, just wanted to say that this decision is yours and yours alone. If DP won't change but you want to continue your relationship with him then accept this and continue.

It's not ideal and his behaviour isn't great but he's probably feeling imense pressure from everyone right now.

Maybe you should have another breif chat with him. Agree to let it go for a few weeks and let the dust settle - give yourselves time to really think about what kind of future you want.

Then discuss it again. See if backing off for a bit allows him to process all that you have told him about your feelings and see if it does make him want to change things.

HTH and good luck. Advice is good and it's great to have it but it's your decision and you know in your heart what you are happy to accept.

Anniegetyourgun · 21/02/2007 13:54

A random thought here, maybe the reason you want to hang onto this one isn't because he's any more special than previous lovers, it's more to do with yourself and what you want out of life right now, ie a settled relationship; he just happens to be the one who was on the scene at the right time, so your insides have latched onto him as "the one". Forgive me if this sounds in any way insulting. You're in your mid-40s (as am I) which is a time I think when people often start to think about planning for the future more than just living for the day - buying houses where previously you rented, that sort of thing. This isn't the last guy you'll ever meet who'll be attracted to you, though; and as some very smart people have already said, this one is a lot more take than give by the sound of it, in more ways than two.

Maybe I'm just biased though, as I have a horrible sense of wrongness about lying to a child. There are so many ways of breaking it gently that they don't choose to do. What else do they lie about, to you, to each other? How much do you actually KNOW about any of this? (Rhetorical questions, don't answer me, just think about it, please.)

Zayna99 · 21/02/2007 17:04

I do want a settled life, and the thing is, it's what DP says HE wants. Well, he's not trying very hard, is he? He goes through these moodswings, he knows he can be an awkward pillock yet still behaves in this peculiar way, ranting one minute, being the most loving and devoted partner the next.

He makes my head spin. He says I'm all he wants yet sometimes I wonder why because we're not getting on at all, want different things and he has got this weird obsession with his DD, and believe me, I have been out with other guys who have children, and they are not as obsessed with them as DP seems to be with his.

Last night he was having a right go at me, saying I've no idea what it's like to love like a mother, and maybe I haven't but I can't really do anything about that, can I?

Exhausted. That's me.

OP posts:
catsmother · 21/02/2007 20:39

Zayna, that was another rotten thing to say to you. There is no law which says he cannot love his daughter AND show you some respect -as he should be doing as your partner.

Well, I am a mother and I don't think what's going on here has anything to do with the love he or his ex feel for his daughter. My son's dad has remarried and it'd never cross my mind to demand that his new wife was kept a secret, nor that my son could only ever see his father in my company only. I have only ever hoped that my son would be a happy and content child, and that his loyalties towards me and his dad would never have to be tested. To that end, my ex and I have always been honest with him and have never played power games, nor badmouthed each other to him. So far as his stepmum is concerned (though he doesn't call her that, just by her 1st name) all I have hoped for is that the pair of them "get on". I wanted my son to like her and would hate to think of him going there if he didn't. I can honestly say I have never worried that she would try to take over or upsurp me in any way.

My partner feels similarly regarding his children, though unfortunately, his ex is of the more unreasonable variety and we have a fair few problems with her.

I think the ex is very controlling and for whatever reason, your DP is allowing her to do this. I don't think he's been straight with you yet about what's going on in his/their relationship with their daughter, nor about what the future holds (just vague remarks about her "finding out") and I think that's why he gets so defensive when you understandably question him, because deep down, he must know he is being terribly unfair. Attack being the best form of defence and all that.

Zayna99 · 22/02/2007 10:18

Catsmother, you're right. I once said that neither of them are doing what's best for their daughter, and got shot down in flames. I mean, how would I know, and all that? I feel I have a better view of it, being an OUTSIDER, but knowing everything that goes on. The child will probably turn out alright in the end, she's at a good school and seems very intelligent, but it seems such a pity that she is living in this bubble, with those two playing charades in front of her all the time.

The very fact that DD doesn't know anything about her father other than he takes her out and buys her gifts, that alone upsets me. It's like none of it is real life, including what is happening between him and me. I also feel like I'm living in a bubble, constantly waiting for things to happen, waiting for life to start. When in fact, and I can't get through to him, THIS IS IT. This is your life, right now...

OP posts:
kimi · 22/02/2007 11:15

Have his parents told him how they feel not seeing their grandaughter?
Also what happens when the grandparents die? Does that get hidden from the child too, or does her mad mother get to bring her to the funeral and you get banned so your DP and his mad ex can carry out their fantasy world in front of the child?
He is making a rod for his own back here, and he cant see it.
So if you stay with him and the child grows up and gets married, him and mad ex play the doting parents bit at the wedding while you sit at home? He becomes a grandad, still no sign of you in the christning photos. What (god forbid) if he dropped dead today, you have to hide from the child at his funeral?
This is madness. I think he needs a wake up call and bloody fast.
I feel sorry for the child as if her mother is this bad now just wait till that child does grow up and try to be inderpendent, if she is all the mother has then she is not going to want to "share" her with anyone, i think this is more deep rooted then she does not want you to try and play mommy.
Im am so cross for you, there has to be an end to it. Your DP really does sound like a prize wimp.

catsmother · 22/02/2007 12:02

Do you know, I think you're being treated as if you were "the other woman". Being kept a dirty little secret as if he was still married and you were having an affair with him.

I know that personally, if I remained in a situation like that, with no end in site, no clear picture of my future and with a partner who consistently refused to reasonably discuss the issue with me (and who was probably not telling me the whole story as well), that I would end up having a nervous breakdown.

catsmother · 22/02/2007 12:02

sight, not "site".

wannaBeWhateverIWannaBe · 22/02/2007 12:13

tbh, I think the answer to what you should do lies in these questions:

do you think that things will ever change? if yes do you think that you can wait until they do? if no, can you live like this for the rest of your life? if no, you know the answer.

if my dh treated me like this I would have left by now. And I certainly wouldn't be considering selling my house to move somewhere else in an uncertain relationship.

Zayna99 · 22/02/2007 12:43

Do you know what I wish?

I wish it didn't matter. I wish I could make it not matter.

OP posts:
bobbiewickham · 22/02/2007 13:32

Hope you don't mind me throwing in my two pence worth, Zayna99, but it seems to me you are going through an awful lot of grief for very little return.
How many hours have you spent angsting over this man, his relationship with his daughter, his ex, his daughter's grandparents, his living arrangements, his fantasy life, etc, etc, etc?
And what exactly do you get in return?
How many hours has he spent worrying over your feelings?
It strikes me that the two of you are locked in some sort of game, where he gets to do what he likes, like some sort of controlling child, and you have to rescue him all the time from ridiculous situations he has got himself into.
I'd stop the game now, if I were you.
Go and find someone who deserves your care.

PussyWillow · 22/02/2007 13:34

All this sounds very suspicious to me. I agree with some of the othrs who have questioned what DD has been told, and that ere may be some elaborate 'lie' going on to 'protect' her.

I was brought up in something similar and beleive me kids aren't stupid, they get to know when something 'strange' is going on, and will do all they can both to play up to the situation but also find out what is going on.

We grew up with our parents purported;ly being 'separated' - we saw plenty of our father , he would come round regularly etc but we later found out that he was in fact married to someone else, we had older half siblings and he and mother had never actually got married. I have never forgiven him for not having to courage to tell us about the 'other' family to such an extent that i cut all contact once I learnt most of the truth. I even forgot to even think about inviting him to our wedding and it was not until 10 years after that i found out he was dead.

If your dp does not want that to happen he should get real and start to tell his dd the truth, and soon, before she begins to really resent all the lies to date.

I am sure she would be delighted to meet you - i would love to meet my half siblings!

Zayna99 · 22/02/2007 13:41

Just to clarify, I HAVE met DD, this time last year... DP went and collected her, they stayed at his parent's house and DP, DD and I went for an afternoon out together, all with mothers permission. We had a lovely time, I was introduced as Zayna, not daddy's girlfriend, and it was so normal. DD and I got along nicely, she was extremely chatty and good fun.

However.

Mother rang DP just as we were returning from our afternoon out, and he told mother we were just going to get something to eat. Mother freaked out, I could hear her on the end of the phone screeching 'Oh, a cosy effing threesome eh?' and I guess DD got the third degree when she got home a couple of days later. Since then, I've not been allowed to be mentioned. I shouted hello to DD once when DP was on the phone to her, she shouted hello back, then mother snatched the phone out of her hand and slammed it down.

So we have met, but it is to be no more.

OP posts:
ScottishThistle · 22/02/2007 13:45

I doubt your situation will ever change as your Husband's Ex obviously has a serious thing about her Daughter getting close to another Woman.

Though I'm sure if he wanted to make a stand over the issue & took her to court he would get access, but do you want to go that road?