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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

It upsets me to hear what a nice time he's having

172 replies

Zayna99 · 16/02/2007 11:50

DP is away visiting his 9 year old DD. BM is there also, they meet halfway and stay in hotels. If anyone has read any of my posts, I'm not allowed anywhere near their DD, DP blames mother and says she poisons her DD against me. My name can't even be mentioned in conversation.

He went on Valentines day, which really upset me. Then last night he phoned me and he tells me what they've been doing, and what a nice time they're having. He even said 'it made up for Valentines day'. That hurt.

He says I should be pleased for him that he is getting to see his DD. Of course I am, but I feel like I'm getting my nose rubbed in it. I don't want to hear about what a wonderful time they're having, while I'm binned off and not allowed to be part of any of it.

I haven't done anything wrong. I didn't split him and his ex up, they were already parted when we got together, but his ex hates my guts. I met DD once, with mothers permission last year, and mother freaked out and has forbidden any more visits.

I want to tell him that I don't want to hear about his DD any more. He can't include me when he feels like it but then tell me his DD is nothing to do with me.

I sent some really harsh texts to him last night but I feel so left out, it hurts so much. Good for him that he's having a lovely time, but I'm left here at Christmas, Valentines day and also Easter this year... I don't want to hear what a wonderful time they're all having. Is that wrong?

OP posts:
LittleBoSheep · 16/02/2007 14:16

Are you sure he & his ex-dp are as separated as he says?

Zayna99 · 16/02/2007 14:19

Yes they are definitely separated. Their relationship was over 5 years before he left - he stayed for the child's sake but then could take no more.

She would have him back tomorrow, but treat him like shit for leaving, and the reason she wants him now is that he is with me, and also it would make her life easier because she'd have a handyman and a babysitter in the house.

OP posts:
fireflyfairy2 · 16/02/2007 14:44

Zayna

You poor thing. At 9 she is not too young to be told you are her dad's girlfriend. If he won't listen to you, is there anyone in his family you could get to have a word with him? Do you know if anyone else shares your POV?

I can totally see that you in no way want to keep him from is dd, you just want included too, don't you? You got involved with a man, who already had a child, but at the time you thought you would be involved, in some way in the child's life, but this has never happened.... I think if it had you would have been a fantastic step mother figure.

Try & have a word with him tonight [or whenever he is due home] & explain the situation to him.

Zayna99 · 16/02/2007 14:49

I doubt he's speaking to me after last nights outburst. I've not heard from him today at all.

His family all bury their heads in the sand, they're lovely but none of them face up to real life. He simply cannot understand why I want to be in their lives, why I want to be in his child's life. At one point he even accused me of being broody, regretting not having any and wanting to get my hands on his. That is absolutely ludicrous. I haven't endured 30 years of contraception to suddenly want to get my hands on somebody else's child at the age of 46...

OP posts:
Caligula · 16/02/2007 14:51

I don't really see that this relationship has any long term future tbh. If he doesn't want you to have anything to do with his child, then he doesn't really want you to be a full part of his life.

Which is fine if you're happy with that, but as you so obviously aren't, isn't fine at all.

catsmother · 16/02/2007 14:51

Zayna, I really feel for you. It's not right that you are being kept a "dirty" secret, nor does the "truth" as presented to DD sound at all healthy. Yes - one day she may suss things out for herself, and yes, she may feel angry with her mother, but equally, she could also feel furious with her dad for being lied to. Potentially, he is storing up a whole heap of trouble, and statistically, given she spends most of her time with her mother, it's more likely (than her hanging herself) that she (the ex) will be able to concoct a convincing story regarding all the secrecy and it will be DP, not her, left with the brunt of DD's anger/confusion/hurt/feelings of betrayal. It would obviously be so much better for all concerned if there were no secrets and no lies.

Of course DP is frightened that if he doesn't toe teh ex's line, she might start to get funny about contact, but legally she cannot dictate who DP introduces his daughter to whilst she is in his care. After all, does he dictate to the ex who she can keep company with, or who gets to meet their daughter ? ...... of course he doesn't, so you can see the whole situation is bloody ridiculous, and probably driven by the ex's urge to maintain "control" and/or spite/jealousy at the fact her ex-H has moved, whilst she hasn't. The only legal way she could demand that you were not to meet DD would be if you were a danger to her - you would need to be a drug addict, a violent criminal or a child abuser.

He has got to stand standing up to her because the whole arrangement is unnatural and hugely offensive to you - his long-term partner. If she got funny about contact, he would then need to obtain a court order specifying when he can see his daughter .... and the ex would need to come up with a very good explanation in court if she didn't want DD to see you, or come to her dad's house. The likelihood of that is practically nil - to prevent contact with you she would need accusations of serious gravity, which would easily be disproven, thus discrediting the ex completely in the judge's eyes.

The 64 million dollar question though is whether or not your DP would be prepared to take this next step - that of telling his daughter the truth, and attempting to arrange contact on his terms (which would hardly be unreasonable). If he refused point blank to do that, then you are left with a very unenviable choice ...... you either put up with a situation which is obviously causing you a great deal of hurt, or you get out of it. I appreciate neither is a very attractive option, but I would be questionning whether or not I could bear to be effectively excluded from being a full and respected member of my partner's family for quite some years to come - if he's not ever planning to "tell" DD about you, then it is feasible that she won't actually ever find out about you. How would you feel, for example, if, in the future, your partner attends her wedding and he is still pretending you don't exist ? Ditto when he's visiting his 1st grandchild ?

Unlike some of the responses you've had, I don't blame you for feeling very hurt by this. It hasn't come across to me that you are jealous of a small child per se, but are hurt that there is a hugely significant area of your partner's life from which you are excluded. Most people whose partners already have children accept there will be times when you take second place but this is entirely different. I totally understand you feeling that you partner shouldn't be able to have it both ways and I feel at best he has been tremendously tactless by waxing lyrical to you about the great time's he having. If I was told that I was totally banned from any aspect of my partner's life, and no, I couldn't come, I couldn't join in, it was "nothing to do with me" and so on, then whatever it was, I damn well wouldn't then want to hear him prattling on about it.

Unfortunately, I do feel that the time for an ultimatum (if you can't live with things this way) is very close. I'd temper that suggestion by saying that it might help you (both) to discuss these issues with a counsellor before that. If my partner was behaving like this, but refused to consider counselling, then I suppose I'd have my answer.

catsmother · 16/02/2007 15:03

Also meant to say ....... if his excuse for not telling DD about you is that "her heart would be broken", you have to question why.

I'm afraid I'd conclude from that remark that DP and the ex were keeping up some frorm of pretence regarding the state of their marriage (who knows, maybe an elaborate tale about daddy working away ?) or alternatively, if DD knew that her parents were actually separated, that they had allowed her to believe they might get back together one day. It's quite common for small children of separated parents to get quite wistfull about their parents reconciling ..... I wonder if they've let comments like that pass, without setting her straight ?

Either way, it seems a very odd, and rather worrying, reason not to tell her about you, and, if what I'm suggesting is correct, a very hurtful insult to you.

I'm afraid I'd be feeling " ... so, I'm not "good enough" to meet your daughter, but I'm good enough to share your bills, do the housework and provide you with sex". Not a good place to be, at all, especially after so long together. I'd also be questionning how my partner actually saw me - whether or not he saw "us" as a serious and long-term relationship.

FluffyMummy123 · 16/02/2007 15:04

Message withdrawn

wannaBeWhateverIWannaBe · 16/02/2007 15:06

?it would break her little heart.?. Something about that statement just doesn?t sit well with me. Why would it break her heart? Why would it upset her so much to know that her father, who has been separated from the family for the past (5 years is it?) has started a new life with someone else? She must have friends at school whose parents are divorced? She must have friends who are part of a stepfamily? Unless ?

they haven?t told her they?re separated. They are keeping up the pretence of being together, and that also means staying together in the hotel.

Are you actually sure they stay in separate bedrooms? Does your dp give you the name/number of the hotel with his room number? Because if not this would set huge alarm bells ringing for me, and I would be questioning just how far the secrecy is going.

Perhaps the reason your dp is so defensive and so reluctant to include you in his dd?s life because admitting to her that you exist means he has to admit to a lot more, i.e. that he and her mother are no longer together.

Zayna99 · 16/02/2007 15:11

Gosh, thank you all so much for these replies. I know one or two were a bit harsh at the start of the thread, but I think it's my fault for not explaining myself very well.

I wish to God I had the courage to print this thread out and give it to him. I haven't. He would just twist it all around so that once again I am wrong and he is right.

Things will never change, I have to accept that and either put up and shut up, or move on. I still love the man. It's hard to break up when you still love them.

OP posts:
wannaBeWhateverIWannaBe · 16/02/2007 15:15

But you will love again, and you will find someone who respects you and wants to make you a part of their life.

Have a look at your life as it is now, and then look 20 years into the future. How do you see things? How do you think you?ll feel about your dp visiting his grandchildren without you? How will you feel about his daughter coming to visit his father and you having to leave the house, your house, your home, because she doesn?t know you exist?

I think you know the answer, of course you love him, but he doesn?t love you, not in the way that you deserve. If he loved you he would want you to be a part of his life, and right now you?re not.

Zayna99 · 16/02/2007 15:24

All day I've been wanting to text him to say sorry, but it's not me who should be apologising is it? That's why I came on here, to get some affirmation that I'm not going mad, that this situation is ridiculous. He makes me feel as if it is me who is ridiculous, wanting to be involved with his dd when she is "nothing to do with me".

OP posts:
DizzyBint · 16/02/2007 15:29

at first i thought it was very suspicious that they are away for valentines day together, but i guess it's because it's half term?

anyway, i know it's easier said than done, but if i were you i'd get out of this relationship. relationships with ex's and children from previous marriages can work, but this one can't.

catsmother · 16/02/2007 15:34

How would he twist it Zayna ?

How does he justify this arrangement (leaving aside fear of disrupted contact)?

Have you asked him why DD's heart would be broken to know about you ?

Have you asked him to attend counselling with you .... you could sell it to him that you want to try and understand his point of view because you're struggling with it, but of course, hopefully, the end result might also be that he begins to understand yours too (and might then start to make changes) ?

I know this must be awfully upsetting for you and I hope you can work it out. Right now though, I think he's behaving like a coward and being very selfish too. You deserve better than that ..... and what concerns me is that there seems to be no projected end to the secrecy surrounding you. His idea of the future is based on what he hopes might happen, not what he's going to ensure will happen regarding his daughter and you. I suspect that if you stay, under the current circumstances (and assuming he's not willing to compromise at all), that you will get hurt a lot more.

It's a rotten situation to be in. The bottom line is for you to decide if you think he'll change his attitude, and if not, whether you can actually live like that. Separation must seem a dreadful prospect, understandably, but would the hurt of that (which wouldn't be forever) worse than the hurt you have now (and for the forseeable future) ?

Zayna99 · 16/02/2007 15:35

Yes it is because it's half term, and though I was bitterly disappointed, I accepted that DD comes first, he still bought me some flowers and left them in the house, but it was last night when he was saying what an absolutely lovely night he'd had with DD and how it made up for not having Valentines day, and I'm afraid I freaked out. What did I have to make up for me not having Valentines day? Or Christmas? And what will I have this Easter when he's away having a lovely time?
I don't begrudge his lovely times with his DD, long may they last, but I don't want to hear about it. He thinks I should feel sorry for him for having left his DD and I should be pleased for him when he goes to see her. I then start doubting WHAT I feel, and why. Why can't I just accept it all? Why?

OP posts:
Paddlechick666 · 16/02/2007 15:35

sounds very very much like an ex of mine, his name's not Mike is it?

he told me I'd never, in a million years, be allowed near his daughter....... ever!

and i never was either.

i really don't know why tbh, he could never explain it.

obviously i wasn't prepared to live with that, it caused huge rows and we split up.

6 weeks later he was back and begged me to go live with him in his new house and get married.......

2 weeks after that we split up for good after yet another "you don't exist and it would break my dd's heart if i told her i had a girlfriend" conversation.

Zayna99 · 16/02/2007 15:50

No, he's not called Mike!

The thing is, I met his DD last year and everything was fine. Apart from mother freaking out. I thought it was a huge turning point. Though now it has done a complete u turn and we've gone backwards.

He simply can't face telling his DD that he is with another woman. He blames his ex but I think they are both as bad as each other.

OP posts:
fireflyfairy2 · 16/02/2007 15:55

Does the ex never have boyfriends?
If so, how does she explain that to dd without "breaking her little heart"??

Zayna99 · 16/02/2007 15:58

As far as we know, the ex has not had any boyfriends. She goes out a couple of times a week but there has been no mention of her meeting anyone.

OP posts:
Paddlechick666 · 16/02/2007 15:59

he's not being fair to you. the BM shouldn't dictate to him what his dd should or shouldn't know about his new life.

however, IME, the BM won't give a flying (*&^ what he wants or what you want and slightly less what the dd wants!

she's obviously got issues and IMO she's actually damaging her dd's ability to learn about relationships and how to handle them by creating a false environment for her to see her dd.

i can empathise with your dp if he fears his ex will restrict or deny access tho - my dh's ex does this regularly and it destroys him. in her case it's a way to try and get more money tho.

IMO, and it really is only IMO, your DP needs to stand up to his ex and insist that you and the dd are allowed to get to know each other.

oh, and he's out of order saying "you don't have kids so you don't know".

sounds to me like you're actually being quite supportive of his spending time with dd. but if he can do that with the ex then he can just as easily do it with you as well.

do you guys plan any kids of your own? d'you relish the thought of being a hidden step-granny or is the plan to whisk you out of the closet when teh dd is 21 - and tell her he's been lying to her all these years?

Zayna99 · 16/02/2007 16:06

No, we don't plan kids of our own. I'm 46 this year, he's 49. Could you imagine the uproar if I got pregnant? I have often wondered what he would do.

OP posts:
kimi · 16/02/2007 16:07

Im sorry but i would have to say "sorry not intrested" every time he mentioned his DD to you until he gets it in to his thick head that if you have any future then he is going to have to get a back bone and tell his DD that he has a speical person in his life.
What if you have children together will he hide that from his DD.
Also (and im sorry if this is upsetting) but if they meet at hotels how many rooms do they have?
Please don't feel that you have to say sorry to him for sending him cross texts HE IS IN THE WRONG!!!!!!!!.

I think you should sit down and have a long talk with your DP when he gets home from playing happy familys.
He is not being fair to YOU or his DD who will be more hurt that daddy lied to her for so long.

It is good that he has a relationship with his DD but not to the point where it takes over the whole of his life and his relationship with you.

DetentionGrrrl · 16/02/2007 16:10

i'm sorry i called you selfish Zayna- i read the OP quickly and thought you were being pissy about DP spending time with his daughter. reading everything you've written here, i think he's the selfish one, and i'm amazed you've taken this for 3yrs.

Zayna99 · 16/02/2007 16:11

Kimi, thanks. They do book 2 rooms, I have seen the confirmations. He would not share a room with her. And thanks for saying you'd say 'sorry, not interested'. This is what I feel I want to do. I want to say to him would he please refrain from mentioning his DDs or his ex's name to me because as far as I am concerned, they don't exist. And that is his choice, not mine. But I don't want to be childish or peevish, I just don't know how to handle this any more.

OP posts:
Paddlechick666 · 16/02/2007 16:18

not childish or peevish - just playing it back to him.

you don't exist to his ex and dd thus they don't exist to you.

say it in an adult and perfectly reasonable manner tho....