Difficult marriage. Not ready to leave

[burgundyandgoldleaves]

I don't know what I expect from this thread, but please, please don't berate me for not leaving. I'm not saying it's never on the cards, but it isn't going to be tomorrow or next week or anything like that, I need to get my head clear first.

I don't even know what to say now.

I feel he often puts me down. I feel he often makes out I think something he thinks when I don't think it at all, or that he twists something to make me in the wrong and at fault.

He complains about housework, gets stressed about mess. I do try really hard to keep on top of everything but at the same time we have a dog and young children and sometimes thinks just get messed up. Like I've been painting and I must not have put the paint lid on properly, it's my fault but he will go on about things like that as if it's some sort of personal character flaw instead of a simple accident.

He's sometimes pushy about sex, he can be quite demanding.

I just feel quite sad about it just now. I feel in some ways life was almost easier before I knew what he was like.

I need to get my head clear first.
I need to be absolutely certain what I am doing and why I am doing it.

Thanks AF. I feel like I hardly ever catch threads on here before they get crazy these days, but sometimes I find one I identify with.

OP - you'll be alright. None of these questions are stupid or annoying! :) I had the luxury that DS was only a baby when I left, so I didn't have to explain anything to him. As he has got older we have talked about happiness. But I like the line about being able to make up your own mind.

FWIW - I don't think you need to worry about male role models. I actually think that is a load of bunk for starters. It's more your attitude towards men they will pick up on. Secondly, it would be pretty hard to avoid them ever interacting with any men, they'll have teachers, doctors, friends' dads, etc. Thirdly just take this one step at a time! You don't need to plan out the rest of your life. It's likely that you could meet somebody else, someone lovely and respectful and deserving but you don't need to worry about that yet. Right now, being single would be a step up - the reason it doesn't feel like that is part of the whole deception thing, making you believe that you're dependent on him, when you're not. Maybe you need to get to a point where you feel being single would be a step up, perhaps that's the trigger point for you.

I remember making friends with s girl on holiday when I was about ten and she came out for dinner with us and clung to my dad. My mum made many tutty noises of disapproval the next day as the girl lived on the campsite with her mum. I know it was my mum being a knob. But I also remember a little boy on a different holiday latching onto my brother and my mum making similar comments.

If I can say one thing about children, it's that they are utterly forgiving by nature. We all, ultimately, want to be loved, accepted and approved of by our parents, and that shows itself as an almost self-destructive drive to explain away and rationalise anything that they have ever done. Even children who suffer terrible abuse tend to rationalise that they deserved it because they were the ones who did something wrong. This belief can be changed in adulthood, but you haven't done anything to turn them against you.

I don't think they will judge you anywhere near as harshly as you are imagining. I think they will understand and think you are strong.

Burgundy, I'm really sorry that you felt like that about what people were saying on the other thread. I think what happened was that posters were getting that much more was going on and it's clear now that it's a whole thing. Far more complex than some ego throwing his weight around in school and humiliating professionals for whom he has little respect.

I think that is abuse of the children, in a way. He's putting his own ego and need to assert himself above a rational and balanced view of their best interests.

He's always been arrogant. He's just lovely to you if you treat him like gods gift and show true reverence to him.

I hope so, Bertie, I think it's because my feelings about my parents are so confused and confusing. I love them and hate them as well.

Burg rational normal people will have a view on him and be very glad they aren't married to him. They won't show it. They don't have to live with him

Many people with psychopathic tendencies are utterly charming, clever, get on well with people they perceive as important or powerful or having something to offer them. And can be abusive, belittling, treat you with contempt almost without drawing breath.

Do you like reading?
Have a look at This Charming Man - Marian Keyes is underrated IMO and goes well beyond 'chick lit'.

I love reading! I'll download that to the kindle now, I quite like chick lit actually.

I wonder sometimes if he could acknowledge he's sometimes wrong, if it could give us something to work from, through marriage counselling maybe, but I know he'd never go for that.

It's a good read - most of Marian's book are.

Have you ever had counselling for yourself? To look at your feelings about your parents? How you chose men to have relationships with? That might be a start.
Don't even try to have relationship counselling with him - that's for couples who both want to improve their partnership and can be positively damaging in the context of abuse.

I did once, but I'm not sure how far it got me. It did help with some stuff but now it's time and money that are the problems. Plus I'm not a great talker, I get confused.

Lundy Bancroft's Why Does He Do That is also a good read. As long as you can be sure he won't find it. My ex was not physically abusive and I still found it helpful - but I didn't read until after I left.

I think the problem here is that there are so many intertwined problems. It would basically involve him changing his whole personality and worldview, wouldn't it? It's not like he has a few problematic behaviours and the rest is fine.

You don't get confused, you're very clear. It's just he is fogging your judgement of yourself. He needs to do that to be able to control you. Far easier to have power over someone who doubts themselves.

No your children don't have a right to know details about your relationship with their dad, only in the way it affects them. Yes it's fine to say you want to make your own decisions and not have someone deciding for you. If they keep on and on pressing with more questions then I think it's important to draw a boundary - they will have seen their dad going on and on questioning and questioning and that might feel normal to them - your role is to show them that people are entitled not to be bullied into responding. Give them the answer that you want to and role model how you aren't open to them pressing you for details. "darling I'm afraid that's all I'm going to be saying about it - the important thing that I want you to know is that I love you with all my heart and I always will".

I know what you mean, but I feel when I'm making such a big decision that will ultimately impact massively on them then they will deserve an honest explanation. I don't mean I'm going to tell my three year old about her dad ejaculating in my face but some sort of middle ground that indicates there were major problems, it wasn't just that he was annoying / irresponsible.

He hates the books I read.

He hates the books I read.

Is there anything you do he approves of, other than when you do as he tells you to?

Every child 'deserves' loving, happy parents and growing up without abuse.
They deserve you being honest with them, NOT justifying your actions.
Again, it's about boundaries - 'Darling, this is all I can tell you about this just now. You father and I can be better parents to you apart than together'.

I know what you mean about an honest explanation - and you seem from previous posts to quite like some of those that have been suggested. Keep it general; there is no place here for detailed (or graphic) specifics. Try the suggestions out in your head: you will know (I think) when one sits right with you.

There is no hurry. Just one step at a time, however small. I know it's scary

I am not saying it's wrong, but I can't imagine shutting down the conversation like that, I just can't.

He does like some of the books I like actually, I'm being unfair. We both quite like Robert Harris, Stephen King, Michael Crichton, maybe some others. But he gets eye rolly at the pastel girly books I used to like.

You can give them a more full explanation when they are adults.

But again, this is something you can figure out later. I would stick with the line about making up your mind for now, if they press for more information then you could say "I love you and Daddy loves you but sometimes Daddy wasn't very nice to me when we were married and that isn't okay in a relationship so I can't be with him any more." If they ask what he did that wasn't nice, you just say that you will explain more when they are older but for now that's all you can tell them. It's really okay to say that. It's sometimes necessary.

Of course your explanations are likely to need to evolve as time and your situation changes.
Don't see it as 'shutting down' - it's another way in which you protect your DCs.
It's a bit like teaching children the facts of life - it does not need to be one Big Conversation, you know, The Talk; it should be honest answers to questions they ask and in an age appropriate way.
Same here.

What they really deserve is a happy, confident mother who lives her life unfettered by somebody who controls her.
How do you think your H might react when your DCs are a bit older, cheekier, have opinions of their own, don't do as they're told, stay out beyond their curfew, give lip?

I do know exactly what you mean, and I would have felt the same until last year when I was faced with an impossible situation - my (then) six year old son's best friend got cancer. The friend is healthy now, thank goodness, but there was a point early on when obviously nobody knew what would happen and whether the treatment would work. DS was asking me things that I just couldn't tell him - because his friend didn't know quite how sick he was - and I couldn't risk him passing on information which was too much for the friend to know. So we talked about different kinds of medicine and doctors and then I had to slow down the conversation and tell him that I couldn't talk about certain things with him and I would explain it when it was time. I felt like it would be this awful thing, as bad as lying, but actually I was surprised that he accepted it and just went in a different direction. It's not really shutting down the conversation, it's just one aspect of it.

He definitely wouldn't like that, Pacific

He thinks I'm too soft, maybe I am.

Bertie I know what you mean, what a good thing the little boy is okay. I guess I'm thinking of when the children are twelve or so, old enough to know, not old enough to understand.

You could use a generic phrase like "He was emotionally and sexually abusive" by teens. They probably won't want to know more than that. (They definitely don't want to know more, even if they ask.)

Bear in mind by the time they are older, you'll be in a totally different place. Again, you're worrying about all kinds of things in the future, when what you really need to focus on is what you're going to do next here and now.

Yeah ... Telling them is just - well, it can't happen. But they deserve to know. Devil and deep blue sea. He'd say I loved all that stuff and lied and pretended I didn't,

Look, most (?all) people never discuss their sex lives (whether good or bad) with their children, certainly not in detail.
And children don't want to know about their parents' sex life IME.

I think you are overthinking things because that is a familiar and therefore 'safe' thing to do, and allows you to not go near the more scary stuff.
Not berating you, just an observation.