Support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh thread 3

[Lilacpink40]

Thred 3!

Hoping purple and Bant are ok. Haven't seen post for a while.

Hope so too Lilac

Its my cat's birthday tomorrow, and coincidently Finland's Independence Day - I told DD that the whole country is getting together to celebrate the cat's birthday

She's been asking again about visits with her dad but he still hasn't changed his mind about the supervised visits and no word yet from my lawyer about when the next court date might be so poor DD still has to wait. I wish he'd just fuck off completely really, sure its much worse for DD to wait and be sad and hopeful all this time.

That's great news Ohb . Maybe now he's blown off a bit of testosterone, and realises that being a dad is more than shouting at you, he'll bog off. Fingers crossed.

Lilac I don't want to give you the impression that I'm a kick arse ex-DIL !! Far from it. I did my fair share of keeping quiet, just to keep the peace. I knew I was probably going to go nc with the lot of them, so I really had nothing to lose. I'm very non-confrontational by nature, which made my showdowns with his dad all the more for them. He was just so bang out of order, and he had jeopardised so much, it was instinctive. It's too outing to give more details, wish I could. Think me thumping the table, telling him something about one of his children I'd kept quiet for 10 years about, even from my ex. It was probably one of the most satisfying experiences of my life.

Happy Birthday NatCat I'm glad your dd has that to think about, rotten that there's still the uncertainty about seeing her dad.

And yes, hope all on the thread are ok, Purple, Frog, Name, 2012 and everyone else.

Soz all... just reading and catching up

dusters that's a brilliant image. I'm enjoying it, a lot! And cheering you in my head.

lilac I do think these people will feel the effects of their behaviour further down the line. I didn't realise people could be so cruel until I met WN and is DM.

oh fingers crossed he disappears again now and you can relax a bit.

Also hoping everyone is ok.

In the latest instalment of greencar attracts self obsessed men, almost ex (I'm still saying 'almost' so you know who I mean) seems to think I moved to be closer to him. WTF. So on top of the inevitable reaction from WN that I did it because of him, I've got two of them thinking my world revolves around them. I almost didn't move because of both those factors, they both make my life more difficult one way or another but decided I didn't want to be governed by them!

I didn't think AE was like that! It sounded like something WN would say. How do I attract these men? My world revolves around my DC, not men who treat me like an accessory.

Gosh! ( quite like that word and never use it!) so much to catch up on. Every time I have started to read thred something has come up.

Nothing to report here - still on the never ending bullshit wait for WN to confirm Christmas dates. What a joke! What is the point in Court orders at all?

Got school Xmas play coming up. I just cannot be around WN so I will probably have to miss One of my married friends was cross with me saying I will be letting DS down by not going, so hard to explain how I feel. I just honestly can't be anywhere near the loathsome prick. Rock and a hard place.

Christmas is going to be a tough one for all of us I think. Quiet houses and the normal family dynamics that stress most families out. I am feeling very alone at the moment. I don't want to be in a relationship but I would just fucking love someone to help carry the constant load - that gets heavier and heavier by WNs behaviour.

to you all. It's the only thing that turns my ever stressing brain off and helps me sleep at the moment.

Hello all, how is everyone?
Oh purple, so unfair thatvyou feel you have to miss the show.

Does anyone know how I can stop overnight contact? Ex wants this but I know DC won't cope...

Greencar if it wasn't so infuriating for you that would almost be funny.
"She moved to Acacia Avenue to be closer to me!"
"No she didn't! She moved there to annoy me"
"No - it's about me"
"No. Me, me, me.....mwaaaah...................."

F**k 'em, eh? You moved there because you felt it was right for you and the dc. It's like that saying, two bald men fighting over a comb

Purple I think you're right not to attend the play given how WN makes you feel. You don't need that stress. Doesn't matter what anybody else thinks, your peace of mind comes first. I was physically near twat at the weekend, completely ignored him, had my back to him, he was mostly in his car. It didn't bother me. But the idea of texting him again, having any direct communication, actually makes me feel physically sick. So I don't.

I think I'm also coming to the conclusion that I don't want to be in a relationship. I quite like men as friends and acquaintances, but I generally don't like how they are in relationships. Even my friends good marriages/partnerships seem so full of compromise - on the female side only though. A lovely friend was today telling me that she buys her xmas presents from her dh. But at least he now wraps them - if she tells him where the wrapping paper is! I said I'd rather someone just went out and spent a tenner on me, but had at least thought about me and put some effort in.

Homely How is your ex's contact arranged now, is it informal between yourselves or court ordered?

It's between ourselves nice.... he has threatened the c word though.

My dc's contact is also an informal agreement between me and ex. They had occasional sleepovers almost from the beginning, but I've a feeling mine are a bit older than yours (9 and 11). When ex asked to make some changes I agreed to them all, apart from one sleepover which wouldn't have worked for the dc. We texted back and forth, basically me saying it's not in the best interest of the dc. He mentioned something about taking alternative action, I said fine, do so. He never did anything. That sleepover never happened, nor the alternative which I suggested.

Could you text/email him and explain why it's not suitable for the dc to sleepover? Then don't budge. If you know it's not good for them just keep repeating what you've said. Try not to get drawn into arguing about other stuff. If you have good reason then you'll be able to argue this to a third party as well. I know you don't want to - neither would I - but you're the primary carer so tell him what you know is for the best.

He will be receiving the letter this week, so we'll see how that goes down.

Homely going through court would take time and money for your WN. If he hears that you and DCs seriously don't want over nights, i.e. DCs would say this to court representatives, do you think he may give in? I mean is it worth seeing if he follows through as probably won't?

On the other hand, I've been asking for my WNex to have DCs overnight once a fortnight/ 3 weeks to give me a break once / twice a month. Are you sure you don't want to think of occassional sleep overs?

Dusters your message to green was so funny. Two men fighting for the sake of fighting. In the meantime green getting on and having a good life

I agree that dating is a lot harder with DCs and WN. It does have some benefits though. I'm remembering what it's like at the start of a normal relationship. Men I've dated since WN aren't controlling and it's been good to feel normal with a man. I work with lots of men, but my closest friends are female. I do feel very vulnerable by liking the man I'm seeing, but I'm trying to separate this from my vulnerability to WN. As in, getting closer to someone is always about letting a guard down and trusting at somepoint. I'm only half letting my guard down so far.

Thanks Lilac. I'm possibly only at the stage to half let my guard down, assume I can't trust someone, and allow myself to be pleasantly surprised. Haven't heard back from HJM about the work, or money that I owe him. Definite red flag for me; reputation for not keeping in touch (in a work context) suggests this is his general approach. Can't be doing with all that. If I haven't heard/seen him by the end of the week I'm going to go round and ask him what I owe, then see if he mentions the other work.

at two bald men fighting over a comb!

Good idea dusters those aren't good signs.

Interview is happening tomorrow or the next day - better tidy up!

Oo wonder what that said...

I hope you don't mind me joining you. I've been uhm'ing and ah'ing about starting my own thread but it feels like more of a vent than asking anything specific and from reading this and the other threads, this feels like a good safe place.

My mum is very ill at the moment - she has (very) rapid onset dementia which only started to appear at the end of the summer and she is now pretty unresponsive, doesn't recognise my Dad (they've been married just shy of 50 years) and she now lives in a home. The added issue is that they live abroad, so I can't just pop to see them. ExH (or WN which I really really like!) is aware and I mentioned I would like to go out to see her.

He currently has my DC (7 & 4) five nights a month - so one night a week and then the first Saturday of every month - and I have been building myself up to ask him whether it's easier for him to extend his weekend (ie Thurs to Monday) or keep them longer during the week following their overnight. I dared to raise it on collection this weekend - he will let me have one extra night . So I can see my terminally ill mum and support my grieving and devastated dad for about 20 hours if I factor in all the travel. I said that wasn't right or fair and he flipped - started screaming Fuck Off at me and then physically trying to barge me out of the house (but because he was using his body rather than his hands, he wasn't touching me and so it wasn't a big deal!)

Of course, this was all with my DC in the next room who were gathering their stuff to leave. His mum - who he 'lives' with - also just stood there and once he'd done screaming, decided to lecture me on how I need to tell the DC about my mum being ill etc etc. Like they won't now know!!

It was like something out of a nightmare. I have recently started a CMS claim as maintenance has been zero up to this point and I guess this is what triggered in but ffs - I want to see my mum. His reasons were all about him with absolutely no consideration for anyone else - let alone his DC. This s all he can give and I should be grateful.

I just don't understand - we've been separated almost 4 years, divorced 2 and yet he still has such a hold on me and what I can do with my life. I know you all get it on here as I have seen this sentiment over and over... I feel like I'm getting stronger and then something like this happens and I fall back again. I was off sick from work a long time when he left and had to go through counselling (something I think he's proud of - yes! he's proud to have caused someone so much mental anguish they have to seek help) and yet, he does nothing to help me.

I am just so sad - for me obviously but also for my DC. He had no restraint, no filter and just lost it.. and that's their Dad . Very subdued drive home and DD is very emotional already and this seemed to break her a little. Awful!

Circumstances are such I won't need to see him in the flesh until February but he was due to have DC early on his contact night in the holidays so I could attend a work event. I don't know if he'll agree to this now but I can't face the thought of contacting him to see...

I hate this - this is not the life I wanted for me or my gorgeous DC. I thought we'd got passed this but no - it never ends.

Sorry for my first post here to be so self-centred but I just feel so low and could do with those most unmumsnetty of things - a hug!

Yes, how exciting, I think that's our first deleted message on the thread. Maybe it was a bald man who didn't like my comb comment

Good luck with your interview Nats Can you get your kitchen floor, the cat and your sad face in so that we know it's you?! You'll be MN royalty after this

Well, after my slight rant about HJM went to work and there he was. Great big smile, really chatty. Apologised straight away about not coming around. Family member in hospital, then people staying. So, I'll fly the red flag at half mast on that one for now . He'll be round later this week

StopLaughing It might be the CMS that triggered your WN into not being helpful, or more likely just the fact that he's a WN! Have an unmumsnetty hug.

Ok that explains HJM then, lets hope some nice good coloured flags come up!

I'll try and get my kitchen floor, the cat, and my sad face into the article!

Thank you Nat...

I was in a DM piece once (article on women working whilst fathers stayed at home) and WN was photoshopped out of the article! He was left on the online version and was shredded as he had a beard and was happy to let his little wifey out to work whilst he sat home. I was pretty outraged at the time but looking back, makes me - edited out for being a cocklodger! Which of course he was!

I have been following your HJM exploits quite keenly Dusters and hope it can work out - you did say you were going to try the whole 'yes' thing out so are you going to ask him? I'm in awe of all of you willing to try dating in any shape or form - far too scary for me at the mo.

Stoplaughing Glad you found us, you're welcome to rant, share, advise, swear, laugh - whatever helps. As you've spotted yourself, your WN is in good company on this thread. He sounds like just the kind of mean, entitled, selfish mummy's boy who drives women like you to post on here.

The first thing I thought when reading your thread was how could he treat you like that when it concerned your poor mum. You'd need to have a heart of stone not to feel compassion. But we know that WNs don't do compassion. To be compassionate he'd have to consider your needs, alter his plans, be flexible and communicate like an adult. I doubt he's capable of any of that.

A previous poster on here said never make WN your plan A, or even your back up. I'm sure you've considered it but is there anyone you could leave your dc with whilst you visit your parents? If there is but it means he won't then be able to have his contact days, well tough. It's an exceptional circumstance, and if he won't have his own dc then he has to miss out.

From what you've said the CMS claim could well have been what triggered his completely unacceptable reaction. These men don't like being told what to do, especially by people in authority, so he's lashed out at you. The fact his mum stood back and watched him, then lectured you, just shows what a matching pair they are. I'd be tempted to tell her next time to never mention your mother to you again.

I personally believe in being pretty straight with the dc about their dad, age appropriate and all that. I wouldn't try and rub the edges off what he's done. They'll cope, but I think they cope better if it's addressed like the bad behaviour of any other adult is. By this I mean not trying to excuse it, dress it up etc. I think this confuses them and sends mixed messages. I hope they're ok now.

Hope you've recovered from the shock of it as well. So sorry that you've got to cope with this on top of the situation with your mum. Can't imagine how hard it must be for your dad At least you all have each other.

Hah love that your WN was photoshopped out StopLaughing!

My picture has been on a DM article before, actually two pictures, one from this year and one from when I was an adorable child but I didn't know about those before they happened.

That really made me laugh Stoplaughing ! A bearded cocklodger photoshopped out of the D M. How would his ego ever recover ? His face must have been a picture (or not!) when he realised.

Hope I haven't been too boring about HJM ! I don't know if the saying yes challenge extends to actively doing things, or just saying yes when asked. If he asked me out I'd say yes, no question. If you're reading Greencar you'll like this bit, it's very Mills & Boon/Pride & Prejudice. "Our fingers touched lightly......." They did, but only because he was trying to help me turn something off ! He wasn't removing the smudge of dirt from my upturned face