Support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh thread 3

[Lilacpink40]

Thred 3!

Hi greencar I think this is the link?
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2746666-Help-exh-refusing-to-return-DS
This thread is a godsend to those of us having to deal with such poor excuses for parents. It can be quite lonely sometimes when most around you seem 'normal'

No specific date for HJM to return, it's weather dependent. I think probably later this week. What he's doing for me (?!) is something that could be done on a fairly regular basis. So, I may be very devious and arrange that.

I didn't realise your ex didn't have overnights at the moment. That's so typical not to mention it to you first. Just another way of sidelining you, putting his wants first, letting you know he thinks he's in charge. As for still having that nagging feeling when they're nice. I'm sure that's completely normal. I think when you've been so close to someone and have children with them, deep down you never lose hope of at least having a good co-parenting relationship with them.

dd I've been lurking on your thread. My boys did similar with cafcass the first time round (almost 4 years ago) they didn't lie but were wishy washy and vague about what they wanted, they have SEN but not enough to impair them making decisions, when I got the report I was really disappointed with them not their fault but I couldn't help it, it led to an arrangement no one was really happy with. I told them truthfully that because they didn't say clearly what they wanted both they and I were stuck with it. We're having another report done and they know they have to be very clear this time or they're fucked til they're 18! Thankfully my WN (SF) isn't an evil twat wrt the boys but I still wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire!

olli talk to the school and ask for a separate meeting time, I had the same problem with SF so I just point blank refused to be in the same room as him for meetings of any sort even before I moved out, I found saying 'emotional abuse' was the ticket to them understanding that joint amicable meetings were impossible. I occasionally still have to do the same for the boys review meetings 4 years on but the school doesn't have a problem with it.

Had to tell DS2,3&4 the results of the court hearing on Friday, SF of course had told them fuck all and DS3 asked what was going on wrt DS1 and their custody arrangements overall, told them that the current order will be staying in place for them except DS1 and that there's another hearing late Feb but cafcass will talk to them before that. My barrister for the hearing suggested I have my solicitor write to SF's about requesting the resumption of Wednesday night contact, he'll say no or ignore it but at least there'll be a paper trail of his refusal for cafcass 🙄

He's had sporadic overnights dusters but is now pushing for more now he's got a replacement for me to do the hard work but he'll go out during them. Leaving DC with...someone he barely knows but can claim is 'long term' because he lives with her. FFS people get married the first time they meet on reality tv shows, it doesn't mean they should be leaving their DC with each other. The speed he's done this at actually makes me even more concerned as this is part of his previous pattern of abuse.

ddr thanks for the link, I need to read your thread in full but in the meantime , even the general idea sounds like a horrendous time for you.

Regular work for HJM sounds like a plan! You can get to know him nice and slowly and something beautiful may blossom. And if not, well it saves you doing whatever it is! (I feel the need to keep positive HJM comments away from negative WN discussions, they are not worthy of sharing space with such loveliness!)

It's minor in the scheme of things, but I'm exasperated that exH hasn't done anything to acknowledge dd's 9th birthday. In past years, he's made a big fuss - he used to post videos of her blowing out candles on Youtube (not something I'm keen on either, mind you).

I'm assuming it's partly a punishment for "saying bad things about him", ie. telling people about his problematic behaviour, which led to the court reducing contact significantly, and also positioning himself as the victim ("I missed out on my child's birthday"). But why can't he care about her feelings rather than his own? And yes, that's a rhetorical question, because he doesn't have it in him. He's taking an axe to their relationship so he can sit piteously amongst the wreckage and blame me.

Greencar I was forgetting his moving in with someone within about 15 minutes of meeting them. So the over nights make sense now. No wonder you feel uneasy.

(Gap between WN talk and HJM !!)

Yes, whatever happens it'll be good (blossom is a clue to what he does ) I was thinking if anything ever develops I wouldn't go into WN details. I feel like it would taint things. People don't really understand unless they've been there. Fresh start and all that.

Biblio I don't think that's minor, it's dreadful. As you say, just another chance to play the victim. He's trying to blame you, but your daughter won't. They are truly pathetic. My dd is starting to see her dad for the self-pitying wally that he is. It makes me very sad, but I think it's much healthier for her to see it (herself) and move on with the knowledge. She wants a new phone for Christmas, I wish I could give her an adult for a father.

Hi Chrystal Hope you're feeling well and fully recovered. Not surprised to hear SF didn't tell ds's about the outcome of the court case.

Hi all previous and new. I've read through, lots of posts and sadly not surprised to hear more WNs being selfish. I'd probably choke on my tea if anyone here said "wow my WN has apologised for selfishness and is willing to listen to me". They just don't see it.

I've had another vile text from my WN and really want it to stop. I've been ignoring them for months, but it's always based on him saying I'm a crap mum, yet I make sure DCs are healthy and happy 99% of the time. I'm trying to ignore it but, dusters your line of feeling hatred struck a chord with me. When he's horrible I want to plot revenge, but know I have to put DCs first grrrr.

She wants a new phone for Christmas, I wish I could give her an adult for a father.

Ha, very true!

I'm still here reading.

Mine is like that too biblio, punishes those he should care for when they don't do his bidding while managing to paint himself as the victim. It's quite astonishing and while it might not seen much in the scheme of things, it is pretty damaging (hands up who's been on the receiving end here) and is symptomatic of the wider problem. And is at it's most disgusting when aimed at or using DCs.

Hi everyone..

lilac it sucks not being able to get revenge but hang in there with the ignoring, it's the only way. They've got the entire nastiness universe covered, we just can't compete...but making them feel unimportant, well how dare we. "Oh, you sent a message? Strange I didn't see it/notice/get time to read it/must have forgotten about it". Or just radio silence on anything except pick-up times and other vital information.
Whatever his opinion of your parenting, his words are 1/ irrelevant, cos he's a useless git who doesn't know what the word means so has no right to comment, 2/ spiteful, so definitely undeserving of the seconds wasted reading them, 3/ pure invention, see point 1.

Mine is still trying hard to hoover but I'm staying boring and unhookable so far (largely thanks to this great thread

Meanwhile, note to self after first night out in what feels like decades.."two cocktails are quite sufficient when out if practice!"

Both hands are up green

The last time mine did that I nearly threw up with the injustice of it...

dd just wanted to say I've read your thread and it was heartbreaking but you're just amazing. Your DC are so lucky to have you..

dusters I'm feeling much better thanks, finished my antibiotics and finally seem to have got rid of the worse of a nasty cold just a lingering cough left! Sprog back to his happy chappy self practicing his kickboxing! Lol 31 weeks today 😊 On the countdown now and vague panic about baby stuff!
Had a couple of strops from DS3, he's turning 13 at the start of December, because I've had to say no to things that cost money (from real Diet Coke to 3ds games) so hard to explain I'm on the breadline thanks to SF completely stopping voluntary maintenance in Aug (committing benefit fraud to a degree while he's at it!) and me taking a year out from Uni.
frog hope you're ok

Just thinking about the feelings of hatred and also the numb no-feeling discussed on the thread earlier. I think for me one is a trade off for the other. To keep the hatred in a little box, and to stop it infecting my life, the price is a slightly numb feeling where before I would have been sad/upset/angry/worrying.

Before twat and his family I'd been lucky to never come across people like them. Obviously I'd known people I didn't like or respect, but this has been like opening a door in to another world. I can't pretend it doesn't exist now, but I feel I have to lean hard against it to stop it coming in.

For me, I avoid as far as possible any contact with or knowledge of the people involved. This has meant loosening ties with some I'd rather still have in my life. But it has to be done. What I don't know or hear about I can't think about. That's why WN's texts are so infuriating Lilac I guess. Everything Mysinking says about them are right, but you still have to know they exist.

I didn't believe before that you could compartmentalise your feelings. I do it all the time now. I don't know if it's healthy, but it works for me most of the time.

Hi Frog, good to know you're here.

Thanks Mysinking I feel so much lighter since reading your post. You're right he doesn't deserve me noticing his texts. I love this thread

Crystal it's hard to explain the truth to DCs, but I think you should continue to try, as you've done nothing wrong. It's the situation not you

Perhaps you could talk in terms of explaining that you have an amount of money every month that needs to cover lots of things and that you need to keep some for Christmas?

With a 13 year old I would say that child maintenance has stopped too I've been straight with my 10 yr old on this , but I can understand if you think that could cause worry. Beyond your useless WN, it sounds like your pregnancy is going well, you sound strong, and your DCs will have the excitement of a baby about within 2 months

Biblio and green my poor ex has really suffered since we split, poor little victim is completely looked after and poor little victim does completely as he wants, but is still a poor, poor victim. Let's all feel sorry not for these men who get everything their own way and it's still not enough.

Hello frog hope you managed to get back to and enjoy your holiday.

dusters you've summed up my experience there too. I realised a while ago that part of my inability to effectively deal with WN and his enablers was that their behaviour was so alien to me that I couldn't understand it, let alone successfully negotiate my way around it without becoming scarred. I do wonder how I'll ever trust again, knowing what people are capable of and how 'nice' they can seem at first.

these men who get everything their own way and it's still not enough

Argh yes!! When will it end?? I have imagined asking him what it'll take for him to be satisfied, but we all know that would just lead to a big long speech on what an awful person I am.

I really don't understand how someone can pull off being Big Important Man and Poor Little Victim at the same time, but he does it.

Dusters I love the idea of compartmentalising the negativity. I think it was hard as I read it at work first thing and couldn't take a moment to process it so knew I'd have to re-read it later. When I did I took time from my work and posted, even writing it down earlier moved it further away. Before then it was hovering around me like a bad smell. Now I'm on here I feel stronger again. Truth is I easily feel guilty, so take responsibility for things that weren't my fault, my WN exploited that for years horrible mean twat that he is

Just popping in to say hi, too much for me to catch up on. Nothing new here, not many phone calls either.

Reading and nodding along to all of the above
lilac the guilt and taking on too much responsibility thing...I reckon looking back on the start of the con trick"relationship" with x that his narc sensors probably picked up on that part of my personality before I did. Not working these days though, any whiff of that and he gets ignored which to him is worse than me being angry so...but how tiring having to even think about all this, they're like perma toddlers.

for baby on the way crystal :)
Agree with lilac about keeping as close to the truth with DC in an age appropriate way. They can usually feel that something's up anyway so it's good to help them understand enough to know it's not their fault. If he really screws up I never say so to either him (not feeding that beast) or the DC except that I'm disappointed/surprised about daddy's decision. Then rant in a safe place!

Hi all, sorry too tired to name check you all. I am reading. And I am here. And I am saddened by more tales of shit. I just feel so jaded at the moment. Everything has gone very very quiet and we all know that means trouble...

Anyway, I just saw this on another thred and it hit home. Anyone know where it could originate from? Anyone read it themselves Frog ? You are normally our go to for info. It did make me wonder...

www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-me-in-we/201203/when-narcissist-heads-the-household

Hits home for me too purple. I can see my WN very clearly in there, and his mother. Sorry you're feeling low, I am also experiencing mine being quiet and outwardly reasonable and and worried. What a set of scenarios we face, be on the receiving end of abuse and at least have be idea of what we're facing, or be receiving no abuse but worried about what's coming. It's no wonder we all talk about stress, worry, not being able to face the future and having to detach to cope. Nobody tells you about this part when they say you should leave, do they?

Narcissists playing the "grandiose" role promote themselves as powerful figures, demanding gratitude and adulation from their child. Just so long as the child is not too successful, incurring jealousy and recrimination. No narcissist wants to be upstaged or outgrown so they suppress signs of independence, any behavior beyond their command. Invasions of privacy, boundary violations, and direct attacks on others are the norm. Young-Bruehl tells the story of a patient called "Alice," physically beaten by her father when she tried to leave home.

Replace the child-parent relationship in that with greencar-WN and you have a good insight into the basics of our relationship. I worry so much for my DC but feel there is no real support in the legal or social system to do anything about it.