Support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh thread 3

[Lilacpink40]

Thred 3!

Hope you're ok Frog.

I had that thought too but then thought F it! We're all here for you if and when you need it.

I really hope you're ok. and some

Hugs Frog.
Today was today and tomorrow is new.

Dusters - ooh heart jump positivity your way!

Mysinking - our children are wise wee souls because we are excellent at loving them just for who they are. I expect many of us have emotionally mature children. Perhaps we don't always recognise it whilst worrying for them.

I asked my two if it was ok for me to look for a new boyfriend. DS is 6. He told me to 'find a better one than Daddy'.
I swear that is the Karma we all talk of, the part where our children will figure it out for themselves eventually part.

My date went terribly wrong. Then we spoke and it went ok again.

It was funny...... he was v v angry. Ex didn't do anger, all passive aggression. And I'm his enabler so I've been taught anger is BAD.

But I realised that anger is just as justifiable as any other emotion so I tapped into the Why. We talked it out.
Fingers crossed. Back on track.

Perhaps one day I can just live. Without analysing.

for Frog, I do hope you're ok and can talk to someone.. is there still that OTBT area on Mn?

Frog, am going to PM you x

oh it won't let me :(

Lol dungandbother we'll have an "analyzing over" party that day, I'll bring the champagne!

You're right about our children being more mature, quite a few friends and family have said so. Hopefully we can give them the emotional intelligence they need to sense a WN from miles away.

Agree that anger is good and healthy when it doesn't turn into aggression. Can help clear the air. Give me anger over PA bullshit any day of the year. I'll cross fingers for you too :)

Lilac Can I employ you as my stunt double with Mr HJM ? You're better at this stuff than me !! He arrived a short while before I did today. We talked mainly about the job, then I left him to it. We chatted again just before I left, pretty relaxed, even had a real laugh about something.

The weird thing is I'm standing there thinking Oooh Mr HJM, but for him I'm a customer. He strikes me as quite proper, old-fashioned but in a good way. The good news is he's coming back tomorrow and it's my day off. So I'll be home....... Lots of things he said confirmed what I thought about him, running an errand for his dc, driving an elderly person in the village to an outing once a week. Also found out we have a mutual friend. Will update tomorrow for a bit of Friday light heartedness

Dung so pleased to hear that about your date. Amazing that you were able to look at the situation in that way. All fingers crossed. Ds sounds like a star. Yep, Karma's a bitch !!

frog don't worry about details, we're all here for you. Hope you've been able to speak to someone in real life.

Hello swirly that sounds horrendously stressful. Welcome though, hopefully we can help you. A place to vent if nothing else.

dusters did you get HJM talking about anything else? Is he coming over again?

I'm sure there were more people I wanted to say things too...but am on phone and so tired I can't remember.

Speaking of which, I have a question. Those of you whose WNs have moved in very quickly with new women (four months or so seems to be a running theme), how did/do you deal with it? I know WN will request demand overnight stays there soon. Now, nothing personal to this woman but she is a random stranger, and he will without doubt leave our young DC with her and various other unsuitable things. Not ok, and hes too fucking selfish to care. It seems my choices are withhold contact in which case he drags me through court, gets it reestablished and finds new ways to punish us, send a sol letter setting out terms, which will enrage him and he will find new ways to punish us, or do what he wants in which case new punishment is less likely but what about DC? I have been losing a lot of sleep over this and feeling quite hopeless today.

Sorry that was much longer than I intended

Ooh lots of cross posting by me! dung and dusters that all sounds good, agree anger without aggression gets it out in the open and is better than PA and those God awful three day long silent sulks where you have to work out what you did wrong but never find out the answer.

"find one better than daddy" ha! Sums it up. Big for your DS!

Hey green

I think the positive thing to do is
Not withhold contact. However! Offer contact via a middle party. Family or friend or last resort contact centre. Women's aid will help you find one. Or the CAB will.

Give clear reasons why contact must be on these terms - emotional and psychological harm to the children. Until we all have travelled the road s little longer, this is your best and only only offer of contact maintaining the DC best interests. It's an interim measure by all accounts.

Frankly, there's no arguing to be had should you offer contact no matter what the criteria.

Or playground with you in a nearby coffee shop overlooking for the first three? Can't remember how old your DC are.

Xx

Thanks dung the problem with him is that he will only ever agree to his own terms. There are no third parties he'd agree to, including and especially contact centres. He's too big and important you see, it's his way or no way. And then of course I'll be the evil one who stopped contact, which I don't care about other than in court. He dictates everything and he has such an over inflated sense of his own importance, I can't tell you how frustrating and upsetting and suffocating it can be (I'm sure you already know).

The thing for me is that he doesn't care about the effect on DC. Preschool age. He just doesn't care, so I cannot trust that he'll act in anyones interests but his own. She's already been introduced, that happened within days. He's never done me the courtesy of so much as telling me, I'm completely insignificant to him, but you find these things out from other people.

I feel so much guilt that this is the man I thought I could build a family with. I still feel the loss of that sometimes, but I don't feel any loss of him. He's vile.

Green without giving up all hope try to play down your concerns in your own mind if you can.

My WN1, after having an affair which ended our relationship, started online dating immediately (in fact he was still logged in on my PC at home one day - that was a nice surprise ) Anyway, he didn't give a shit! He would not have agreed to or done anything I would have asked - probably the exact opposite to spite me. My little 2/3 yr old DC got taken on a stream of 'dates' with various women and their offspring at MacDonalds and the like. I could only piece things together from his toddler stories of 'Daddy's new friend with a baby' and friends spotting him out! It was hell!

The only way I got through it (and it was bloody hard) was focusing on my child being safe, cared for (I know that is questionable but you know what I mean) and keeping myself busy.

Don't let him know it gets to you if you can, pick your words carefully. He will behave worse if he knows it is getting to you.

I'm sorry not to have a more positive answer - other than years later DC thinks WN1 is a twat! They soon realise truly who is there for them and where adults priorities are.

Dusters This story needs a bit more spicing up now please - we've done the cups of tea and small talk and the bloke is obviously lovely.

Ask him out for a coffee/meal/drink tomorrow please!!! You will kick yourself if some old slapper comes along and throws herself at him and you missed the boat! He is a gem, and so are you! One little drink date please

Dusters I second purple on this, ask him we need juicy details on here . Last night I asked two men for dates via OLD. Ok so we'd moved onto What's App at this point and one was already adding kisses after messages, but I still had to take a breath and do it. One was super-keen but is now ghosting me (OLD term for disapearing) , but other I'm meeting for coffee next week. I'd go for subtle like, "I'm so happy with your work perhaps you'd let me buy you a coffee at the lovely coffee place we both live near?"

Going back to WN and OW/GFs. When my WN left us my DCs said he's chosen her OW over us. I tried saying that he hadn't really left them, but they weren't having any of it. My youngest ssid I should get a bf as daddy has a gf, but it took me 7 months to think about dating again.

Oh frog I hope you can have some in RL you can talk to. Sending much love and strength your way.

Mysinking Don't give your opinion on moving out on the country, make it his choice (and his mistake!). My ex pulled that one too, said he had a job offer in Kenya at a time when things were going reasonably well between us and we were trying to make an agreement outside of court with the help of the social workers. I had sent my agreement plan to him, he only had to agree and sign it (it was long weekends EOW so quite decent) and that's when he suddenly decided he might move to Kenya and had to think about it before he could make any agreement. And then his health went downhill so I was very grateful that he didn't sign it! Not sure I really believe there ever was a job in Kenya but when he asked my opinion I told him its up to him, that no one else can make that decision for him and that he needs to carefully weigh up the pros and cons. So he disappeared into the forest for two weeks without his phone to 'think'... DD was very ill at that time and I couldn't get hold of him to get him to agree to medical treatments

Hi everybody. There is so much I missed and many new-bies so apologies for not name checking all!
Sad to read that dates where rubbish and court hearings awful! How are people coping?💐💐💐💐💐💐
As for introducing o/w. My w/n did this 2 1/2 months after split- on ds's first over night to X permanent place! And every visit since. X didn't mention it to me. I hear ds talking about "sue" lots and when I asked which room "sue" had in the house, he said "with us" 😳

Greencar I've no experience in the gf/dc area (yet!) but Purple's approach looks like the way to go. Twat would go out of his way to do something he knows I don't like, so I tend to bite my tongue. I have only mentioned a couple of things because they involved my dc's safety. Luckily the dc knew I was right, and have hammered the message home to him themselves.

On the subject of dc, WN, and karma. My dd has a couple of habits she does when she first wakes. I said this morning Dad used to do that, you must be twins. She replied I hope not !!

Purple and Lilac. I feel as frustrated as you about Mr HJM ! He doesn't even drink tea I don't have the nerve to ask him to go for a drink etc. If he looked I would be mortified. We live so close, bump in to each other, and now I know have a mutual friend. I just don't get any vibes from him that he's looking to see anyone. I think his split was fairly recent. So, I'll just continue getting to know him today. He's not here yet......

Nats Does your ex have a fantasy of being Grisly Adams, the guy with the beard who lived in the woods ? 2 weeks to think ?!!

Frog hope you got some sleep. At least today isn't yesterday - if you know what I mean.

Thanks all. It's the getting into bed with them, leaving DC with her type of things I'm really worried about, the things where it starts spilling over into safeguarding issues because she is a stranger and all the boundaries that overrides, whether he's living with her or not. You're absolutely right about not letting him know things get to me (look at his recent reaction when I tried to address something with him) and I've held my tongue about so much. I just can't trust him, he will do what suits him whether or not it is right or best for DC. I feel like the one person who should care as much as I do is the main person I have to defend against and protect us from, it's wrong on so many levels and even after all this time is still enough to bring me to tears.

But anyway. Good to see you 2012

frog hope you're ok. At least this bit is over, onwards now. Thinking of you.

Nat hiding in the woods FFS. Thank goodness he never signed that form!

dusters doesn't drink tea what about coffee? He must drink something...how long will he take to finish this work, is it long enough that by the end a 'drink (of any sort) to say thank you' suggestion in a completely not-date but we know it is really way would work? (Sorry, of course you must take this at the pace you feel best, but he sounds lovely and so are you!)

I'm lucky in that sense, I'd feel utterly sorry for any new girlfriend my ex tried to impose, I don't think he'd dare until they are adults. For her sake

Hi green wanted to say you X sounds like quite the sociopath with his my way or the highway attitude. It is vile you're right.

My X can't be on his own for more than a month either and I share you're concern. I also can see why you wouldn't want to take the legal route given that he's a "punisher" type, but if it was me, and I was truly concerned for their wellbeing, I'd probably opt for sollicitor's letter option. Not speak to him at all.

Maybe see how it goes in the next few weeks and if you get even the whiff that it's dodgy then get an appointment. People like that don't understand healthy boundaries so have to have them imposed upon them. But then new GF might see through him and bolt, in which case problem solved until the next time they're so unstable Not a happy ending but at least when you have the law on your side you have something to protect you. If he goes all arsey about it just give a boring answer about it being in the children's interest to have a structured agreement, don't let him think it's about her.

I'm also with you on the sadness about not being able to rely on x to care as much as you do. It is just all wrong and I don't think anyone here set out to be in this situation. In my case, it comes in waves. Sometimes I think well, we all make mistakes, move on. Other times I feel like an idiot for falling for him and being so easy to manipulate. Counsellor told me that this was wrong thinking as it's not like you learn how to spot this kind of thing in school: if you're kind and positive on the whole then you don't imagine that other people can be twisted (or at least you don't imagine liking them). They're so good at the charm/victim/say-all-the-right-things shit in the beginning. What helps is to know there are laws out there to help us protect the DC and we can learn to become emotionally detached from them slowly but surely. Starting by having no expectations, but it is really hard I know.

Nat thanks for sharing your experience, it confirms my fears. You've all been very supportive about not taking responsibility for his decisions so that's me decided to just fade out of the whole process. Still, it's very destabilising. He's "thinking" about going in September, bang in the middle of the back to school period. This is DS's last year of primary as well, what a loser.

On a happier note, dusters do you know if he likes any specific kind of music? Would it be going too fast for you to invite him to a show/gig or something similar, along the lines of "I've got a spare ticket to...would you like to come?" Maybe too soon...

hello again 2012, Purple everyone, not up to date yet but sending to all here

I'm just at the level of sheer irresponsibility with these WN's and their new gf. I guess it just highlights why they can't ever put the dc first in other more day to day situations. I wonder how the gfs feel about the inappropriate behaviour. I'm trying to imagine how you must feel greencar , it's so unfair. Maybe the idea of a letter from your solicitor as per Mysinking's post would be helpful to you. It would not give you control as such, but would potentially be a marker should you need to take action at a later date.

As for Mr HJM. Thanks for lovely comments and advice. I'm a bit of a chatterbox, went slightly into overdrive just after he got here . He remembered it was my day off, and I told him I was going for lunch locally - with female friend ! This started a conversation about places we liked locally - we had similar tastes. Came back and he was finishing up. He asked about the lunch, we chatted, and he said he'd finished. But then he said d'you want me to do anymore. I think you all know the answer !! So, he's coming again early next week.

I think it'll have to be a slow burner. Only red flag so far is that he doesn't drink tea ! But I can forgive that, he drinks beer

Does your ex have a fantasy of being Grisly Adams, the guy with the beard who lived in the woods?

Well he used to have a beard that reached to his bellybutton

So Mr. HJM doesn't drink tea? HUGE RED FLAG Beer almost makes up for it though.

Dusters. He is keen!! Either that or he has a career based on servicing 'single ladies' who swoon

Either that or he has a career based on servicing 'single ladies' who swoon

Maybe he's a time travelling Victorian!