Mn please help me figure this out - DP asking dad before proposing

[sadandanxious]

So DP and I have recently been discussing the possibility of getting married at some point in the future. I've always said I want him to ask my dad before proposing to me. He can't understand why and thinks it should be between us two, not him and my dad first. He has said he will ask my dad but that it feels wrong and feels like it puts pressure on him to do the proposing instead of us having an equal discussion.
I can't explain it to him though, not really. I do actually agree with him that it should be between DP and I but I know my dad would be gutted if he wasn't asked. And I've got it in my head that I'm already ready for marriage whereas he's not quite yet and so I want him to do the proposing so I know he definitely wants it. Does that even make sense though? Also it doesn't sit right with me that my dad needs to give his permission (even though he'd never say no), because it's my relationship and my life. I end up going around in circles in my own head trying to figure it out.

For those who's DP's did ask your father, is that what you wanted and why? Would you have been bothered if he hadn't?

"It was a chance for my dh to show respect to my Dad, to share that he would love and take care of me and a chance for my Dad to welcome my dh into our family"

Any reason all that couldn't happen after your then DP and you had discussed it together and decided to get engaged rather than just before?

And what about your mum? Does she not need to be "shown respect" or have a chance to welcome DH into the family? (If she's not around and that's the reason for excluding her then I apologise, of course).

My ils refused permission to my bIL when he asked to marry DHs sister

It really upset every one, and still rankles, they married anyway

Very old-fashioned and seems to suggest you are your father's possession and it's up to him if you're allowed to get married IFYSIM

If DP asked my dad if it was ok to propose to me that would be the end of our relationship. I could not tolerate being with someone who disrespected me to that extent. Your DP sounds like a lovely man who wants an equal, adult relationship with you.

My DH didn't ask my dad. His argument was he is marrying me and not my dad, and the decision whether to or not should be my free choice without influence. My dad didn't mind, although he had asked my granddad's permission before proposing to my mum. Mind you I did it all arse about face and had a baby first anyway.

It seems very out-dated to me. It was never about respect or inclusion, it was because a woman was the property of her father and not free to choose who to marry without his permission. That's no longer the case.

I agree with your DP but I can also see how it's respectful to your father too. If it's important to you and your father then I'd expect it to be important to your DP if only for that reason.

This is the start of the two of you seeing things in life differently and wanting to compromise to keep the other happy unless it's a strongly held view. Learning to pick your battles is useful.

It makes my stomach turn it is so outdated. When friends/relatives have talked about I have bitten my tongue but it really makes me cringe.
I have told my DDs I won't respect their partner if they do this. I also hate it when other people know someone is going to propose, I'm always secretly hoping the partner says NO.

Ahh see I knew most of mn would be against it - which is why I asked really! I don't see myself as a possession and is the main reason I can't figure out in my head why I want him to ask. My mum is still around flowery - unless that question wasn't aimed at me.

I was engaged years ago and my now (thankfully!!) ex didn't ask my dad and I could tell my dad was pretty disappointed. Its true though, there's no way I'd consult with them about any other aspect of my life. My parents can be really overbearing and interfering and judgemental about my life which is exactly why I should just say nuts to them in all honesty!

I'd expect that any man who is worth marrying should have 'a strongly held view' that women are equal human beings and not possessions, and that traditions which treat them as chattel should be avoided.

Dh asked my parents blessing but after we had already had the conversations ourself. My parents were happy, I was happy, all good.

Are you not having the conversations now if you are talking about this? Or was this just an in general chat?

Does he know you are ready and it's more about when he is?

It's not your dad who matters in this - it's you and your dp. Your dad's disappointment should be irrelevant.

Your dp should be able, in years to come, to look back on getting engaged (however you do it) with fondness, as a happy memory. He won't do that if he's recalling being made to go against his better judgement and ask your dad.

If your parents are overbearing and judgemental then isn't that additional reasons making your dp unkeen?

You could reframe it slightly and ask your do to get your DDs blessing rather than permission. ie "I am going to propose to to sad and I wanted to let you know"
However, after you saying they are overbearing would make me even less keen to do this.

My dad would consider DH respecting me to be very important, and treating me like an equal in our relationship.

Therefore it is much more respectful of parents to do them the courtesy of not assuming they are sexist.

Not asking parents first shows a belief on the prospective DH's part that the parents wish their daughter to be treated with respect and as an equal partner. That's paying them a compliment.

You are either 12 or living in 1912.
What's wrong with having a chat with eachother's parents after the engagement is announced, when you could say how happy you were and how much you'd look after each other? If it's about respecting them as parents that would more than suffice.

It sounds like you're repeating a pattern of behaviour from childhood - appeasing your dad to stop him from being over-bearing and guilting you about something. So your subconscious wants him to be asked to avoid the row. Your DP quite rightly doesn't want to do it. I'd see this as a positive sign and embrace it.

OP what if your Dad says no? If you then go ahead and marry your DP, it makes a mockery of the whole tradition.

I agree with WomanwithAltitude above. It isn't to do withyour Dad's feelings - your dp's feelings are the important ones in this.

Especially hearing your update about how overbearing and judgemental your father is.

Be kind to your dp.

Your last post speaks volumes op. I am sorry your parents are like that and I am also sorry that a part of you, despite that, is still the child desperate to please. I think that's the issue that you're hanging on this outdated tradition.

I'm with your DP, sadandanxious

I always knew that I would never marry a man who felt he should ask my dad for his permission.

I've had to physically remove myself from conversations where women have talked about their fiance having asked their dad for their hand in marriage. I cannot bear it.

"I was engaged years ago and my now (thankfully!!) ex didn't ask my dad and I could tell my dad was pretty disappointed. Its true though, there's no way I'd consult with them about any other aspect of my life. My parents can be really overbearing and interfering and judgemental about my life which is exactly why I should just say nuts to them in all honesty!"

OK, I think this is the root of your problem and may be an additional reason (though the equality point is enough!) that your DP doesn't want to do it. It sounds like it's more that you don;t want your dad upset than that you, in yourself, think it's the right thing.

womanwithaltitude I like the way you've phrased that and I guess I'd not looked at it like that.

tribpot and defineme I think you're both right. I have massive issues about avoiding upsetting my parents and it probably is about that.

I think if your DP doesn't want to do it then it would be really cringey.

X post with yonic - totally agree with your post.

But how on earth do I resolve this issue?!

I can't remember who asked but yes we've already had discussions but it's more of a "we would like to marry at some point" rather than specifically let's get engaged, start planning etc.