MIL no-contact, DH sad, what to do?

[DilapidatedGlamourpuss]

This is going to be long, and MIL related. Sorry. I just don’t know what to do, and I don’t want to dripfeed. This is so identifying to anyone who knows me but I don’t even care anymore.

I’ve been with my DH since we were 18 (we met at uni), and we married this year. We are in our late twenties. We relocated earlier this year for his job to the US. Our relationship is mostly great and we are very happy together. There’s one problem, my MIL. We are now completely estranged and its breaking my DH’s heart. We are due to go home for Christmas and I have no idea what we’re going to do.

I’ve always felt that MIL has disapproved of me, and we have clashed over the years when I have refused to toe the party line like the rest of the family. Everyone does what she says, because if they don’t she cries, or is ill, or starts an almighty row. I’m not used to such a manipulative dynamic in my own family, and it made me very wary of her.

Whatever we did wasn’t the right thing. Jobs, where we chose to live, the fact we hadn’t bought a property by 25, our friends, the fact that I have had MH problems and have had some time out of work over the last few years due to ill health.

When I was 19 and disclosed that I had been abused she asked whether I had been tested for STIs, as she didn’t want me to pass anything on to her son. I was going through the ordeal of seeing the case go to trial, giving evidence in court and watching it be plastered all over the national news at the time. It made me feel so ashamed and dirty and I have never forgotten it. She tried to persuade my DH to leave me at the time, something he let slip. I let it go then, as I was grateful she hadn’t thrown me out of their home for my disclosure. I have come a long way since then.

Over the years, I veered between avoiding her and trying to be accepting of her personality, out of love for my then DP. There were times when we got on better, even though I still felt the underlying disapproval. So, last year we got engaged and planned a wedding very quickly as we wanted to move to the US. We would have got married in the following 18 months-2 years, but we had been given this opportunity of a lifetime and to be together needed to be married. And that’s where the trouble began.

She ruined our engagement party by crying and storming off when she found out we weren’t going to be married in church. She continually made digs about this, even though she knew I had been abused in a church setting and this was really triggering for me, which I explained to her. She goaded me into screaming at her and getting completely hysterical when we went round there by constant little digs about how what we were planning wasn’t good enough, because she didn’t have enough involvement. I tried to involve her in the beginning, but she wanted to entirely take over so I drew back.

In the interests of full disclosure, we asked her to make the cake as this is something she does as a hobby and is very good at. I thought it would be a good way to make her feel involved, but I think this was a mistake. They also offered money, which we accepted. This was also not a good idea - we were able to pay for the wedding but I think DH didn’t know how to not accept their offer. I did meet her and forgive her for the above, before Christmas. I made some compromises to try and make her happy – not having the humanist ceremony we really wanted and we tried to accommodate them with the food.

My DH left for the US in January a few months before the wedding, so on the whole I had to plan it without him, but was running everything past him over Skype. I met her for coffee with my DMum, as I had a feeling she was going to create a scene or try and manipulate me, which is exactly what happened. What was meant to be a talk about wedding plans turned into her screaming that the wedding would be a shambles, it wouldn’t be real as it wasn’t a church wedding and that she wasn’t coming. In a shopping centre. It was so embarrassing and I was very upset. We tried to cut the scene short, and walked away. She followed, shouting at us. This is because I told her we would be getting married in another room than originally planned, because the guest list had gone up. She then sent me a very malicious text after. My DP was in the US, absolutely heartbroken and bewildered that she had said she wasn’t going to come.

To cut a very long story short, she came to the wedding and we managed to keep it civil. This was through various people in the DH’s family putting pressure on me to meet her and talk about it. Everyone is desperate to placate her all the time. After the wedding, I discovered she had tried to manipulate the wedding planner into changing the room, been horrible to my bridesmaids when they changed their dresses in the evening, ran our wedding down to anyone who would listen and had a massive row with her DSis because I met her for lunch. As far as I know, they still aren’t speaking.

After this, I decided I could have no contact with her. She made the run up to our wedding the most miserable time of my life, when it should have been happy. She does not understand why I won’t have anything to do with her, even though she has had it explained by various family members. My DP is desperate to have us in the same room at Christmas- we are both homesick and he is so sad that we are estranged, even though he is completely on the same page that what she has done is awful. She is still his Mum and he loves her, even though he doesn’t like her behaviour. I hate seeing him cry about this, but I’m still so angry with her I think meeting her would make it worse. I feel such hatred and bitterness towards her for everything that has happened over the years and I don't want to inflame the situation further by losing my temper.

So – does anyone have any idea where to go from here? If you got to the end of this congrats, it was long.

I think it's true that they can get worse with age.
In my own situation it seemed natural for my Dad to be 'in control' of the family when we were young. What seemed natural back then begins to look increasingly insane when those 'children' have their own homes, spouses, kids, jobs, etc. It's that loss of control which is making her really angry.
The taboos are ... nobody believes that a parent can ENVY their own child. HATE/ ANGER is another taboo people find hard to acknowledge.
And yet these emotions exist in the mind of the truly selfish.

I also think you need to state to DH what you want - and what you are prepared to do/accept -

For example - happy to meet for tea in a restaurant but not dinner in their home - etc

That's it - then step back - let him deal with things - he makes arrangements he calls he sends gifts - etc - she's his family.

Other family members need to back off - you don't discuss it at all - so no crossed wires etc

Let him open his eyes!

She sounds awful, destructive, disrespectful. I wouldn't see her. You may have to give up some hours with you DH while he visits her, that's up to him. I can hardly believe this is real, that people (your ml) behave this callously. If your DH is sad , it is his mothers doing... Not for you to 'fix' by subjugating yourself to this nonsense.

Yes to what PickledOnions says.

I think you need to set your boundaries firmly and set them NOW. If you think she's bad now, what do you think she'll be like once you have a child? Good God, it doesn't bear thinking about!

So get that line in the sand drawn now, when it's just you (and DH) you're fighting for. It will be 1000 times harder and more unpleasant when there's a child in the picture.

I actually think your DH has got to man up and think about how he sees the future of his family (you) because right now, he hasn't got your back.

What would he think if you treated a future daughter like this?
Thank the lord you're not in the same country most of the time.

Separate Christmas is not the answer. You know, you'd be better of staying in your new country and making the most of new experiences.

Jesus I feel depressed about this. The flying monkeys have already begun. People are using his DGrandparents as bait, as they will be upset if we don't all get together. They are lovely people but I don't want to be forced into this for their sakes

I know we would probably be better off staying here for Christmas, but it was never an option. DH is too attached to the idea of the 'perfect family Christmas' to have ever considered that.

I think your husband needs to step up to the plate and have a word with her. You are the one who seems to be exposed to all her bile, and he doesn't seem to have done much of a job of defending you and your relationship. You don't owe her anything but you seem to bearing the brunt of her behaviour; either directly; or because your husband is asking you to spend time together in the full knowledge of how she has behaved towards you; or because you have to cope with him being upset because of the situation. None of this is your fault - you shouldn't have to be worrying about it.

Just remember that his wishes don't trump yours, especially since he's got blinders on when it comes to his mother. If it was a situation where he said 'Yes, I know my mum's a true blue royal bitch and I'm asking the moon but I really want to make my grandparents happy. I'll have your back if Mum kicks off' (and you knew he would truly have your back) it would be something you could probably grit your teeth and deal with. But that's not the case. He's got his head so deep in the sand he's probably seeing China.

Compromise is always best, but sometimes it just can't happen. Maybe think a moment of the bare minimum you might be able to deal with. Dinner in a public place? An agreed upon time at this family 'do' with you holding the car keys and his knowledge that if shit hits the fan you will quietly get up and leave, with him or without him? If after thinking every which way and considering all possibilities you decide that you just cannot do it, not even for 15 minutes, then that's your answer. Your DH can either accept it or not. That's up to him.

I think perhaps you and he should consider couples counseling, especially if you're thinking of TTC in the next couple of years. Your marriage really can't succeed until the issues surrounding his relationship to his mother, and your boundaries, is resolved.

Your husband has had a lifetime of conditioning (me too), he's not going to suddenly see the light and become a different person, if it happens it will be over a long time. He sees the crazy but he's conditioned to meet her needs, it's "comply or die". He may never break that. You, on the other hand, do not have that conditioning. So you make your choices for you. If you don't want to see her then don't. The only way to win the game is not to play. Just don't engage. It'll take time for you to get there but it's the only way to survive someone like that. Support your husband in his choice (and the inevitable emotional upset) to maintain his relationship with his mother but do not throw yourself under the bus. Don't pussyfoot about your husband, tell him like it is because you do not have to take that crap from her. If you don't stand up for yourself it will just get worse. Save yourself while you can.

Bizzarly we had a person enter our family like this a few years back ( she's my sister in laws mum) . She's very manipulative and plays victim . Whilst I can see it my mum over the years has turned into a weak wreck of a woman bowing down to her commands . These people need firm boundaries ( this comes from professional experience - I bet she is personality disorder, hv a Google) . She is actually pushing you so far in the hope you will cave , then she will manipulate you and your husband apart! Firm firm firm x

I also think you need to put very firm boundaries in place.

If you decide to see her, I think it should be for a short period of time, such as a lunch. Anything more risks a big family fall out, particularly with emotions running high on both sides (very understandably on your part). If that is not sufficient for her, or anyone else, then I wouldn't see her at all if I were you.

Could you maybe suggest to your DH that you pitch it that you each want to spend the maximum time you can with your own families? Maybe you could then spend some time together as a couple with friends, which he might find less difficult than him spending time with you with your family. Whilst it's absolutely understandable that you will not want to stay with his family (and please don't do it!), from his point of view the imbalance could be sad.

Yes you have booked flights but have you thought about asking what the cost is to switch them to Feb?

I would not be going home at Christmas in the future. Now is the time for you in your new family unit to be building your own traditions away from his mother.

Quite frankly I would be putting my foot down now. You both stay with your family. On Christmas day he can drive over to his parents and spend some time with them but obviously you don't go. With poisonous people like this you can't give them an inch. You don't owe his mother anything. For a start she owes you an apology for being so very rude to you. Outside of Christmas Day ask him what time he wants to spend with them.

Finally I suggest you and your DH take a mini-break in the UK while you are visiting. As an expat we do this and it's great. Gives us a proper break from everything. We had a great time when did mini-breaks in York and Bath.

I know we would probably be better off staying here for Christmas, but it was never an option. DH is too attached to the idea of the 'perfect family Christmas' to have ever considered that.

Sorry, but it's time for that Mumsnet mantra - you don't have a MiL problem, you have a DH problem.

He is being monumentally selfish and delusional and very unfair on you. What perfect family?

You should point out that using your DH grandparents as bait is just as much of a reason to not go, than to go. If you go, WHEN it kicks off (it will 100 per cent go sky high) their Christmas, as well as everyone elses will be ruined. You will always come off as the one responsible as you are not blood family etc, and your DH will not say anything to back you up.

You need to remember you have been through an awful trauma with your trial, and are prone to MH difficulties. You've just moved abroad to a strange country and are still adjusting. Can you mentally deal with a shitty Christmas, a screaming banshee of a MIL, an upset DH and a family full of enablers? Will it provoke a mental health episode? Would you even want to risk it?

Stop pussy footing around your DH and set your boundaries with HIM let alone everyone else. You 100 per cent support him seeing his family, but will not be going, as there is no need for the conflict. By going and being civil, and her not apologising for her behaviour, you are saying its ok. That she can behave however she likes, and after enough time has passed, and enough pressure put on you both, you will be back in touch like nothing has ever happened. Bullshit. You have needs and feelings that are just as important as his, and seeing as he didn't back you up, you are going for a bit of sanity preservation and not going.

See your family, have a happy Christmas. Why the fuck he has to go xmas day I don't know if you are there for a fortnight. Cant he see her xmas eve or boxing day. He spends the vast majority of the day with you, if he wants to pop over in the evening, while you see friends/family then great, but no chance are you going. Marriage first, loopy MIL second, that needs to be your bottom line to him. Don't get drawn into his emotional head burying shit.

You are only treated how you allow yourself to be treated. She is a monster, don't engage with her. She cant ruin your Christmas if you don't see her. She needs to learn there are consequences to treating people the way she treated you. Being a dick when you had the courage to speak out about the abuse you suffered is disgusting. You fought enough dealing with that, don't sign yourself up for unnecessary wars with people who will never change.

I dont think you should ever make contact with her again to be honest. I think youve done your DH a favour. Even if it is sad that he doesnt have a good relationship with his mother that is not your fault its entirely HERS.
Im sure he is a bit sad, anyone would be if they had to cut ties with their own mother but you shouldnt feel guilty because as ive said its not you is it its her that wont change.
I think re christmas, just go thru with seeing her but be as detatched as possible, certainly dont apologise or get reeled in to any arguments. Just walk away from her if she tries to start anything. The key is not to give her any emotional response. People like that feed off emotional response.
After that i would really try to have as little to do with her as possible.

What I would think about is, you see her at Christmas then what?

Seeing her as a one off is one thing, but I suspect he wants to use this as a way to build bridges and re start the relationship. Last thing you need. If you go, it will be expected that you are talking again, and that contact will resume. Do you want this woman back in your life? Going is sending a signal you are open to rebuilding this relationship - truth it you are not. His relationship didn't stop, yours did.

I would put money on her wanting a big clear the air talk the minute she clamps eyes on you, minimising everything she has done, passing it off as your fault, and then the whole 'water under the bridge' shit, with a room full of people wanting to play happy families piling the pressure on to do just that, forgive and forgot, when truthfully you have done neither. You will feel even more awkward and pressure given that all of this will be taking place in her home, with her family around her, you would very much be on the back foot the minute you walked in.

That and a big awkward atmosphere to boot, your every move and word watched by the whole room waiting for it to kick off. Doesn't scream a merry Christmas to me. Plus factor in gift giving. Do you buy her a present etc - too much drama - avoid.

I can see how bad it has been for you OP but is there any chance you can "let go" of the past as it isn't good for you to be holding on to anger, and can turn in on itself and end up with making you depressed. You can't change the past and I fear that it will in the end be you who gets most hurt over this conflict.

MIL sounds like a very manipulative woman for sure but also very unhappy herself (happy people don't behave in the way that she has) god only knows what's at the bottom of her behaviour and you don't need to waste emotional energy on this. Also I'm thinking of your DH - yes ok he's been conditioned into pleasing her but she is his mom and this conflict is making him very unhappy too.

Given you are in the US you won't have to see very much of MIL but can you possibly have a meal with her and other members of DH's extended family (or whatever they do at christmas) after all it will only be for a few hours and if there are enough people there, you won't need to interact with her very much. Presumably you will be staying with your parents so and you and DH will be spending time with your family, so it's only fair that he gets to spend time with his family. I know people are saying e should see his mother on his own and I'm sure he can do that during the time you are in the UK but I honestly think it would be best if you could just spend a few hours with his family including MIL of course.

Incidentally I'm not just thinking of MIL and her needs, I'm thinking that holding on to this anger is very detrimental for your emotional and physical health and same for DH. I fear you will both suffer far more than MIL - so why take that risk of you both hurting/being angry for the sake of a few hours at Christmas.

Ok - there's obviously a gulf between you & DH and what you want to happen at Christmas.

Be VERY clear to him that his desire for it all to just disappear is utterly unrealistic and really quite childish. He can't just close his eyes and pretend it didn't happen. So he needs to think realistically about how to move forward, not create some fictional past.

Can he accept that you saying no to this Christmas doesn't necessarily mean it's no forever? That maybe in the future you will feel sufficiently healed/removed from the situation and be able to be in the same space as her? Can you accept that? Then it makes it easier for him to see this Christmas as less of a make-or-break situation.

If there's a big family get together, would you be able to cope with that? I have a difficult MIL and can cope in bigger groups but not small ones. There would have to be a clear understanding that you would both leave if she said even one thing that upset you.

You're under no obligation to see someone who has abused you as she has done, but he's so used to doing whatever she wants that he will genuinely believe that it's easier for everyone else in the family to rewrite history than for her to change. He really will emotionally be feeling like she doesn't mean it, she just needs a chance to calm down etc.

And I definitely think you should get a car - that way you never end up being stuck somewhere - whether you see her or not.

Sounds like your DH needs counselling - he is clearly completely manipulated by MIL and what lies behind his pleas for a "perfect family Christmas" is fear.

You are quite right to be prioritising your own needs - she sounds toxic - but equally I think DH is vulnerable at the moment, if I'm reading your comments right. Maybe the two of you could get some support with dealing with this situation?

You should point out that using your DH grandparents as bait is just as much of a reason to not go, than to go. If you go, WHEN it kicks off (it will 100 per cent go sky high) their Christmas, as well as everyone elses will be ruined. You will always come off as the one responsible as you are not blood family etc, and your DH will not say anything to back you up.

You need to remember you have been through an awful trauma with your trial, and are prone to MH difficulties. You've just moved abroad to a strange country and are still adjusting. Can you mentally deal with a shitty Christmas, a screaming banshee of a MIL, an upset DH and a family full of enablers? Will it provoke a mental health episode? Would you even want to risk it?

Unleashing is giving you some extremely powerful advice here. Read, reread and read again. She's right, and you know it. Protect yourself from this vicious bitch. She makes my psycho MIL look like Ma Ingells.

For me, it took a lot of heartache, endless compromise and even with DH backing me up, I sadly realized the only thing I could change was how I responded. It's not easy, but DH and the kids have their relationship with her and I have completely disengaged. No big denouement, no dramatic line in the sand. One day I was just fucking done with her shit. There is some very, very low level contact, hi on the phone etc, but there will be no more Christmasses, Easters, no trips to stay with them, she's definitely not welcome here. It's sad really, she pushed, and pushed, and pushed me but in the end all she really did was cut off her nose to spite her face(s) and my conscience is as clear as a bell. Do the same OP. It's actually extremely freeing! DH knows why I can't engage with her anymore, and I know it's hard for him, but ultimately he's got to get on with it because he knows I'm not doing this to be belligerent.

Good luck

Your husband is manipulating you ("I haven't got any hope?" Diddums. FFS!!) and he clearly will not support you when she (verbally) attacks you again. Let him meet them on his own.

You are going to be the bad guy to them whatever you choose to do, so choose what you want to do.