MIL no-contact, DH sad, what to do?

[DilapidatedGlamourpuss]

This is going to be long, and MIL related. Sorry. I just don’t know what to do, and I don’t want to dripfeed. This is so identifying to anyone who knows me but I don’t even care anymore.

I’ve been with my DH since we were 18 (we met at uni), and we married this year. We are in our late twenties. We relocated earlier this year for his job to the US. Our relationship is mostly great and we are very happy together. There’s one problem, my MIL. We are now completely estranged and its breaking my DH’s heart. We are due to go home for Christmas and I have no idea what we’re going to do.

I’ve always felt that MIL has disapproved of me, and we have clashed over the years when I have refused to toe the party line like the rest of the family. Everyone does what she says, because if they don’t she cries, or is ill, or starts an almighty row. I’m not used to such a manipulative dynamic in my own family, and it made me very wary of her.

Whatever we did wasn’t the right thing. Jobs, where we chose to live, the fact we hadn’t bought a property by 25, our friends, the fact that I have had MH problems and have had some time out of work over the last few years due to ill health.

When I was 19 and disclosed that I had been abused she asked whether I had been tested for STIs, as she didn’t want me to pass anything on to her son. I was going through the ordeal of seeing the case go to trial, giving evidence in court and watching it be plastered all over the national news at the time. It made me feel so ashamed and dirty and I have never forgotten it. She tried to persuade my DH to leave me at the time, something he let slip. I let it go then, as I was grateful she hadn’t thrown me out of their home for my disclosure. I have come a long way since then.

Over the years, I veered between avoiding her and trying to be accepting of her personality, out of love for my then DP. There were times when we got on better, even though I still felt the underlying disapproval. So, last year we got engaged and planned a wedding very quickly as we wanted to move to the US. We would have got married in the following 18 months-2 years, but we had been given this opportunity of a lifetime and to be together needed to be married. And that’s where the trouble began.

She ruined our engagement party by crying and storming off when she found out we weren’t going to be married in church. She continually made digs about this, even though she knew I had been abused in a church setting and this was really triggering for me, which I explained to her. She goaded me into screaming at her and getting completely hysterical when we went round there by constant little digs about how what we were planning wasn’t good enough, because she didn’t have enough involvement. I tried to involve her in the beginning, but she wanted to entirely take over so I drew back.

In the interests of full disclosure, we asked her to make the cake as this is something she does as a hobby and is very good at. I thought it would be a good way to make her feel involved, but I think this was a mistake. They also offered money, which we accepted. This was also not a good idea - we were able to pay for the wedding but I think DH didn’t know how to not accept their offer. I did meet her and forgive her for the above, before Christmas. I made some compromises to try and make her happy – not having the humanist ceremony we really wanted and we tried to accommodate them with the food.

My DH left for the US in January a few months before the wedding, so on the whole I had to plan it without him, but was running everything past him over Skype. I met her for coffee with my DMum, as I had a feeling she was going to create a scene or try and manipulate me, which is exactly what happened. What was meant to be a talk about wedding plans turned into her screaming that the wedding would be a shambles, it wouldn’t be real as it wasn’t a church wedding and that she wasn’t coming. In a shopping centre. It was so embarrassing and I was very upset. We tried to cut the scene short, and walked away. She followed, shouting at us. This is because I told her we would be getting married in another room than originally planned, because the guest list had gone up. She then sent me a very malicious text after. My DP was in the US, absolutely heartbroken and bewildered that she had said she wasn’t going to come.

To cut a very long story short, she came to the wedding and we managed to keep it civil. This was through various people in the DH’s family putting pressure on me to meet her and talk about it. Everyone is desperate to placate her all the time. After the wedding, I discovered she had tried to manipulate the wedding planner into changing the room, been horrible to my bridesmaids when they changed their dresses in the evening, ran our wedding down to anyone who would listen and had a massive row with her DSis because I met her for lunch. As far as I know, they still aren’t speaking.

After this, I decided I could have no contact with her. She made the run up to our wedding the most miserable time of my life, when it should have been happy. She does not understand why I won’t have anything to do with her, even though she has had it explained by various family members. My DP is desperate to have us in the same room at Christmas- we are both homesick and he is so sad that we are estranged, even though he is completely on the same page that what she has done is awful. She is still his Mum and he loves her, even though he doesn’t like her behaviour. I hate seeing him cry about this, but I’m still so angry with her I think meeting her would make it worse. I feel such hatred and bitterness towards her for everything that has happened over the years and I don't want to inflame the situation further by losing my temper.

So – does anyone have any idea where to go from here? If you got to the end of this congrats, it was long.

He said he sees no point as it won't produce a solution to the problem of me not wanting to be in the same room as her.

I'm afraid you have it in a nutshell there. He's already made his choice. That choice is not you. Therapy won't make you give into her or them, therefore its not worth it because no one else's feelings except hers count or are valid.

Good luck OP, you're going to need it.

Basically it boils down to the fact that he knows what she's like but won't do anything to stand up to her or get support to stand up to her. He'd rather see you upset and treated badly then do what's right.

Don't have dc with this man. He won't put them first any more then he will your relationship. Instead he'll let her toxicity affect them and hurt them as he has you.

MagikarpetRide is right he has made his choice and he expects he can manipulate and guilt you into accepting it and living it. Question is, will you?

He said he sees no point as it won't produce a solution to the problem of me not wanting to be in the same room as her.

But that's not the real problem, is it? The real problem is her behaviour, not yours.

Now I'm going to say something that will probably pain you, but I learnt from experience and it's the God's own truth. You say you love him, that's well and good. And I expect if he were asked he'd say he loves you too. But the truth is that sometimes love just isn't enough. You can love someone to distraction and they can love you just the same way. But if there isn't a meeting of the minds as well as the hearts the relationship stands no chance.

But if there isn't a meeting of the minds as well as the hearts the relationship stands no chance.

oh god across. Isn't that the painful truth.

It truly is SeaEagle. It's something my mum tried to make me understand when I was just a young girl, embarking on the world of dating and relationships. Like others before me I felt that 'love conquers all'. And like most others before me I learnt to my sorrow that it does NOT.

Don't have children with a man unable to put you first

Imagine struggling with pregnancy, his mum turning up and being god awful to you and him too childish/selfish to defend you

Imagine him deciding a newborn is too much work so suddenly his work gets really busy and he coincidentally buries himself in work effectively abandoning you at your most vulnerable time

Honestly OP having DC can be a lovely experience but it can also be a fucking shit storm. He needs to be able to put you first because you will be the one physically suffering. If he's used to being selfish when the shit hits the fan and burying his head in the sand how will he ever cope. He needs to deal with this like a grown up if only to prove to you he's the kind of man who can cope with fatherhood

I hear you all. I got the dates wrong (my relatives are coming tomorrow, this has been stressing me out so much I got all muddled) so I don't have anything else to do today. Am retreating to bed for a few hours as I got virtually no sleep last night.

My SIL (DH's brother's partner) has been in touch to say don't relent, she's still painting herself as the victim and isn't a bit sorry. She has also distanced herself hugely from MIL and has been absolutely horrified by this. She sees her for what she is. BIL does too, to a degree. More than DH.

I x-posted with batteries. This is making me think really hard about the future and DCs. I thought the next few years were planned out, which was stupid and naïve

I don't think you should relent either. I get your husband is in a difficult position but really, he should be furious with his mother for the way she's treated you and want to man up and protect you from further harm. If he won't do counselling together would he go alone? Ultimately it's a MIL-DH problem really, if he'd married someone else she'd be getting this as well so it's not you specifically if that makes sense (sounds like she has form from what SIL said).

Glad you have some support in your SIL, dilapidated.

Any chance your BIL could have a word with your husband?

I do hope you can get a read of Toxic Inlaws by Susan Forward (might be an idea not to let your husband see it!)

God though, it's so bloody unfair isn't it? Have a with me Dilapidated.

Best advice is as others have said, just keep dispassionately, coolly repeating "the problem is not me, your mother treats me appallingly and I am within my rights not to subject myself to it." Which you bloody are by the way.

essentially, it is a choice but not the 'poor me having to choose between my wife and my mother' scenario he wants to simplify it to.

When I was having similar issues with mil, thankfully not as bad my motto was DETACH DETACH DETACH, physically and emotionally.
She and her family are the problem nothing to do with you anymore.
You're not in the equation anymore so the choice is this -

Have a relationship with his mom without you present or don't have a relationship with her at all.

All him and his choice.

He likes to make it all about him doesn't he? Poor me, caught in the middle, not given a break, what can poor me do?

It's pretty disgraceful the way he's acting. I would have a think about dc very heavily because they will come second best too. Plus given his manipulative actions so far it's very possible he's more like his mum then you think and will become more and more so.

Sorry OP, he's being a selfish arse.

"Oh poor me, caught between these 2 strong women, and all I want is a quiet life - why can't you help me with this? Why can't you kowtow to the queen, my mother, and just let me have the peaceful life I want? Why do I have to put up with this?"

across's words are so so true - sometimes love just isn't enough.

I'm truly glad that your SIL and even BIL have better insight into what's going on, but tbh that just throws your DH's behaviour into very sharp relief as being really very poor in comparison

So I agree - do not relent. Tell him that you're sorry that his mother is making life so difficult for him, but you are not prepared to be in a room where she will abuse you as much as she can get away with, while no one stands up to her. And, since this is what she has done every single time (I guess?) so far, you're no longer prepared to give her the benefit of the doubt, nor "another chance".

If he CHOOSES to take that as being made to choose between you, then that's HIS issue - there is absolutely NO reason why you should put yourself in that position just because HE wants it. He needs to learn to be a grown up about this - if his mother asks why you're not there (probably one of his issues) then he has to tell her that you don't want to see her because she is so unpleasant to you (Of course he won't do that - he'll make up some excuse).

Hang in there - we're all here as back-up!

I would stop all discussions about this. Tell your husband clearly that you will not be attending. That's it. You don't need to explain or justify. There is no point attempting to explain things in a particular manner in the hope that he gets it. He does get it. He's seen it and still thinks that you should put up with it.

He is more concerned about his mum hassling him than he is about your well being. In my experience men who have been raised by such a person are severely damaged. They are often quite like their mothers.

I agree with Matrix. Discussion is over. You've stated your position clearly, he's stated his. I don't think discussing it is going to change either of your minds. He can stew in his own juices if he has a problem with your decision.

Next step, see a counselor right away, before your departure date. Make an appointment and tell him you are going, with or without him. If you go alone, explain that although you know there's a lot of work to be done, for right now you need to focus on strategies to cope with his inevitable 'guilt tripping' before you leave and to deal with the flying monkeys and coercion that will come from his family once you're there to force you into giving in.

As far as the visit, you do your own plans for the period he wants to spend with his family. Schedule things for both of you for the rest of the visit, but make your own plans for that period.

He is making it about him, that's very true. Having thought about it overnight, I suppose I'm doing what he's never really seen anyone do (and sustain for any length of time), which is not give in to her demands.

Her entire family have always gone along with what she wants for an easy life. Her sister is the only person to ever really challenge her. She said to me once that it's not personal, whoever my DH chose to be with would be going through this with MIL and I think that's true.

SIL used to do what I do and go along with her for the most part but describes what has happened as bullying and has withdrawn. She said MIL knows their relationship has suffered but she probably realises that if she is horrible to her that the consequences will be the same.

DH and I are talking again after I told him how hurt I was at his behaviour. We still haven't addressed the issue properly. SIL told me that in his conversation with BIL it was made clear that she still thinks she's the victim and is in no mood to apologise. So more head burying has gone on because he thinks if he can make her apologise to me everything will be alright, ignoring the reality that that's not going to happen.

I'm thinking about seeking therapy on my own if he won't go. Trouble is, I'm not earning at the moment. DH wouldn't stop me but I think it would possibly cause more tension between us. I will check my health insurance entitlement and try and get some that isn't too expensive.

We live in one of the most expensive cities in the world, so there are many providers but we simply can't afford the $200 an hour many therapists want without help. My work permit has only just arrived and with our long break home booked, I can't practically take on anything permanent until after Christmas. I'm looking for short term stuff until then.

She has some real probs your mil doesn't she ?. Personally I would have Christmas with my own family and let dh do what he wants.
He sound lovely to put up with her behaviour, obviously loves her.
You don't deserve this and you shouldn't have to put up with it. Others who pander to her and not helping her at all. Something in the past must have seriously messed this woman up.

So, she thinks she a victim and wont apologise - he thinks you going into a room who thinks SHES the wronged party, with alcohol and an audience to play to, will make this better. Hes on a hiding to nothing with that one.

AVOID. Tell him now before you get on the plane, that you are going to X's and a visit to Y and Z. No MIL full stop.

To be honest don't really like the language of "it's breaking DH heart" at the end of the day if your MIL had behaved as you imply he should be more supportive not suggesting he go NC but he should be more prepared to understand why you would not want to see MIL acknowledge this is in the main MIL fault and accept the consequence of MIL being rude is she has said goodbye to hosting events which require both of you to be there

Practical solutions see family separately or if you must see MIL then leave it til after Xmas and don't let her ruin your Xmas

Like I say I think this is really a DH problem

Fwiw my MIL also a piece of work / I tolerate her for the kids but her rude behaviour over the past decade has meant she has kissed goodbye to hosting /visiting Xmas day as I simply won't let her ruin it for us so we see her either side of Xmas instead

Op, marriage doesn't have to be such hard work. Yes people should try and make a very good go of it but it's ok for there to come a time when a person says - if it was meant to be, it wouldn't be so difficult.

She sounds like a narcissicist. Your DP is likely to have narcissistic tendancies (towards you and potential DCs) as well as FOG towards his mother. The guilt-tripping manipulative "you are making me sad, I can't possibly bear it, why are you doing that?" Is just like what his mum did to him. He doesn't know what a healthy relationship looks like.
I think there is hope but he has first and foremost to accept that the problem comes from his mother. Get him reading about narcissism, he might recognise some things and the out of the FOG blog. He is only bound to feel better if he can get out of that FOG. You can help him do that, you need to be very very self-confident, which start by being well informed. Good luck OP!

I think you're in the US.

Many large employers have an 'Employee Assistance Program' (or something that sounds similar) that provides family counseling services (and other services such as smoking cessation or legal consults) to employees at no or low cost for a set number of sessions. Check with your husband's HR Dept or company website. My former employer offered 8, my DH's offered 12. When we went through a rough patch, it was a Godsend. Also, many counseling groups work on a 'sliding scale', charging according to your income. You don't need a psychiatrist or psychologist, per se, just a good family counselor. Look for 'MFT', 'MSC', 'LCSW' or 'LMFT' after the name.

Many health insurance policies will pay for psychiatric (MD) care, but not psychological or family counseling so don't be surprised if your DH's doesn't pay.