MIL no-contact, DH sad, what to do?

[DilapidatedGlamourpuss]

This is going to be long, and MIL related. Sorry. I just don’t know what to do, and I don’t want to dripfeed. This is so identifying to anyone who knows me but I don’t even care anymore.

I’ve been with my DH since we were 18 (we met at uni), and we married this year. We are in our late twenties. We relocated earlier this year for his job to the US. Our relationship is mostly great and we are very happy together. There’s one problem, my MIL. We are now completely estranged and its breaking my DH’s heart. We are due to go home for Christmas and I have no idea what we’re going to do.

I’ve always felt that MIL has disapproved of me, and we have clashed over the years when I have refused to toe the party line like the rest of the family. Everyone does what she says, because if they don’t she cries, or is ill, or starts an almighty row. I’m not used to such a manipulative dynamic in my own family, and it made me very wary of her.

Whatever we did wasn’t the right thing. Jobs, where we chose to live, the fact we hadn’t bought a property by 25, our friends, the fact that I have had MH problems and have had some time out of work over the last few years due to ill health.

When I was 19 and disclosed that I had been abused she asked whether I had been tested for STIs, as she didn’t want me to pass anything on to her son. I was going through the ordeal of seeing the case go to trial, giving evidence in court and watching it be plastered all over the national news at the time. It made me feel so ashamed and dirty and I have never forgotten it. She tried to persuade my DH to leave me at the time, something he let slip. I let it go then, as I was grateful she hadn’t thrown me out of their home for my disclosure. I have come a long way since then.

Over the years, I veered between avoiding her and trying to be accepting of her personality, out of love for my then DP. There were times when we got on better, even though I still felt the underlying disapproval. So, last year we got engaged and planned a wedding very quickly as we wanted to move to the US. We would have got married in the following 18 months-2 years, but we had been given this opportunity of a lifetime and to be together needed to be married. And that’s where the trouble began.

She ruined our engagement party by crying and storming off when she found out we weren’t going to be married in church. She continually made digs about this, even though she knew I had been abused in a church setting and this was really triggering for me, which I explained to her. She goaded me into screaming at her and getting completely hysterical when we went round there by constant little digs about how what we were planning wasn’t good enough, because she didn’t have enough involvement. I tried to involve her in the beginning, but she wanted to entirely take over so I drew back.

In the interests of full disclosure, we asked her to make the cake as this is something she does as a hobby and is very good at. I thought it would be a good way to make her feel involved, but I think this was a mistake. They also offered money, which we accepted. This was also not a good idea - we were able to pay for the wedding but I think DH didn’t know how to not accept their offer. I did meet her and forgive her for the above, before Christmas. I made some compromises to try and make her happy – not having the humanist ceremony we really wanted and we tried to accommodate them with the food.

My DH left for the US in January a few months before the wedding, so on the whole I had to plan it without him, but was running everything past him over Skype. I met her for coffee with my DMum, as I had a feeling she was going to create a scene or try and manipulate me, which is exactly what happened. What was meant to be a talk about wedding plans turned into her screaming that the wedding would be a shambles, it wouldn’t be real as it wasn’t a church wedding and that she wasn’t coming. In a shopping centre. It was so embarrassing and I was very upset. We tried to cut the scene short, and walked away. She followed, shouting at us. This is because I told her we would be getting married in another room than originally planned, because the guest list had gone up. She then sent me a very malicious text after. My DP was in the US, absolutely heartbroken and bewildered that she had said she wasn’t going to come.

To cut a very long story short, she came to the wedding and we managed to keep it civil. This was through various people in the DH’s family putting pressure on me to meet her and talk about it. Everyone is desperate to placate her all the time. After the wedding, I discovered she had tried to manipulate the wedding planner into changing the room, been horrible to my bridesmaids when they changed their dresses in the evening, ran our wedding down to anyone who would listen and had a massive row with her DSis because I met her for lunch. As far as I know, they still aren’t speaking.

After this, I decided I could have no contact with her. She made the run up to our wedding the most miserable time of my life, when it should have been happy. She does not understand why I won’t have anything to do with her, even though she has had it explained by various family members. My DP is desperate to have us in the same room at Christmas- we are both homesick and he is so sad that we are estranged, even though he is completely on the same page that what she has done is awful. She is still his Mum and he loves her, even though he doesn’t like her behaviour. I hate seeing him cry about this, but I’m still so angry with her I think meeting her would make it worse. I feel such hatred and bitterness towards her for everything that has happened over the years and I don't want to inflame the situation further by losing my temper.

So – does anyone have any idea where to go from here? If you got to the end of this congrats, it was long.

You see this a feminist issue Rogue when it isn't. I, and other women who are abuse victims can certainly relate to the DP's coping strategies

Well, yes and no. I see it as mostly an abuse/ control issue. But yes I do also see it as a feminist issue. I think we are on very dangerous territory comparing a man with difficult parents to the comparison of female abuse survivors. It's worlds apart. And even if it was true, so what? Should people martyr themselves because their spouse is an abuse victim? Is that healthy?Or should they speak their truth and be able to decide what is best for them?

Taken down to its basic level we are talking about a man who has difficult parents. Big deal. Vodka has not forbidden him to have a relationship , she has simply said she does not want to participate in a relationship which is harmful to her. Dh is free to peruse this relationship and vodkas abscence really shouldn't be a problem. Nobody has the right to force anyone into any relationship ever. For any reason.

This whole thing boils down to the dh attempting to force and manipulate vodka into a relationship she does not want. Considering everything that's happened, a polite distance sounds like it would be best for all. But he won't accept that and is bullying and manipulating vodka into something she doesn't want to do. Why? Who cares why. It's not ok. There's not one example that could justify doing this.

Is he an abuse victim? I don't know and I don't care. He's not here asking for advice and vodka is. She's the one carrying the emotional weight (shitwork). She's the one buying and reading books , and ringing therapists and trying to find a solution. His response is to refuse to read books, refuse therapy and to continually bully vodka into submission.

The inlaws are a pain in the arse. But they're not the problem and the situation is in no way unique. The problem is the dh bullying the op to pretend and to be their willing victim while he observes the abuse and does fuck all.

So no, I don't see him as some sort of victim, and I object to him being compared to female abuse survivors.

I'm reading but can't respond to much right now as I'm bloody tired and going to bed now. He apologized and the therapy is going ahead. I told him I wasn't willing to carry on without it and would leave and go home.

I'll be back tomorrow.

I would pack the bag and be ready now if he backs out again.
Your going to have to be tough now.
For your own self worth and care here you have to be the one who stays strong.
Its a emotional roller coaster for you at the moment and I am sure you just want the ride to stop and get off.
I hope you get some well needed sleep Vodka.

I'm so sorry that this is so hard. I'd also have a bag packed. I'd go as far as to say in your shoes I'd go home and tell him you won't be back until he's had his first session in person with the therapist. Not so much as a threat to him, but a chance for you to get a much needed break with people you feel safe while he takes responsibility for his own feelings and behaviour.

(but I'm not in your shoes, so do what feels right for you)

Badly worded, up too early!

Rogue I'm a female abuse victim. AND someone with a dysfunctional, manipulative family

His behaviour is coming out of fear. Doesn't make the behaviour any different, but until you understand the potency of childhood trauma based fear and how it irrationally terrorises adults until it's dealt with professionally, I don't think you can appreciate what's at play here.

No of course his behaviour isn't acceptable, but he's not currently equipped to do anything else.

He's not doing this on purpose. I'm not saying Vodka should put up with anything, but I do think when mil has gone will be a better time to start making sure he acquires the tools and strength to fight this off

Have they gone yet?

I tried ultimatums, blazing rows, tearful heart to hearts and stupidly stoic silences.

They don't work in isolation.

What did work was the efforts I took to try and see it from her POV.

These were small and often begrudging efforts to begin with. Mainly done because I could not bear the thought of being apart and sometimes in an effort to not 'let the MIL win'.

We both behaved badly at times but at least one of us always wanted to end whichever stupid fight we were having about MIL (or me as it often turned out).

It took years being honest. We survived because these issues were regular but not constant (or constantly large).

Professional counselling may have speeded that process up but my view is that we both had to change.

DW needed to find her way to cope and understand that it was okay that MIL and I don't get on. That I am an adult and MIL needs to understand that even if she can't accept it for DW.

I needed to come to terms with it is not a me or her situation and that would be an untenable position to take up for DW and DC.

I am sure the professionals would look at us and have doubts about the efficacy of what we did and do, but I am equally sure they would not expect just one of us to have compromised and for it to happen overnight.

So no, I don't see him as some sort of victim, and I object to him being compared to female abuse survivors

Your objection is noted and overruled.

Vodka and her parents (who actually know him) have come to realise he's scared of her. Your contrary beliefs doesn't tally with their real life observations. Those with acceptable upbringings aren't scared of their mother.

I'm an abuse survivor who was raped by a previous partner and will express parallels with my previous abuse and resulting behaviour if I choose. Hissy has also been brave enough to publicly express the parallels to her too. Object all you want but your objections don't overrule the rights of abuse survivors to share our experiences.

Themes of adaptive behaviour are often identified by abuse victims as they emerge from the FOG, gender is irrelevant to this. Trying to understand his behaviours and motives certainly isn't excusing his behaviour, or making Vodka a martyr.

I wouldn't blame her if she walked, as I said before Vodka's no.1 priority must be herself and her needs. I won't presume to know best or try to push Vodka into how she should proceed, I'm just trying to ask pertinent questions to help her understand her DP and identify what's best for her.

what a mentally exhausting situation, you must feel ill and exhausted vodka. please go home to your lovely parents for a few weeks, let them care for you and nurture you. you will end up ill if you stay in this pressure cooker. will give you both a wee break to regroup and hopefully recover. thinking of you xxxx

What did work was the efforts I took to try and see it from her POV

Well said Zero

That's what my dh tried to do too. Luckily he saw past the symptoms and helped change my susceptibility to the cause. That's because he never assumed the worst of me and wanted me to heal.

Vodka I'm going to be brutally honest: I think you should come home for a while. I think he needs a kick up the arse to realise what he is going to lose if he doesn't buck the fuck up. And as for him being scared that you won't come back, let him be scared. Let him absolutely fucking shit himself

I agree with this from ohfourfoxache
Keep a bag packed and if it gets intolerable get out and stay gone. He needs to face the reality that he will lose you if he doesn't get his shit together and honour his vows to protect you, even from his own mother. I got the hell out for a number of days during the worst of my DH's denial and I meant it when I said I would be taking no more abuse. He shat himself. This was 5 months into the marriage. Here I am and she is gone.

Joysmum - with the greatest respect and with a full understanding that you see more than one victim in the OP's scenario - one who also needs compassion and support - I think that the dynamics are not fully the same as your situation. For you the abuse is not ongoing, you are not seeking to be engaged in it proactively, you are then not condemning or harassing your DH to be abused also.

OP - your boundaries need to be with your DH.
They are simple really.
He needs to respect your decision 100% that you will not to be involved with his parents - which includes not nagging you and harassing you to see them or displaying other (probably unconscious) silent / passive aggressive behaviours (sulking, withdrawing etc.)
He needs to conduct his own relationship with them independently and you need to respect this.
You both need to agree that they are off limits regarding conversation.
You will not be able to show him they are toxic - it has already been a frustrating / painful and fruitless exercise - as he sees you as part of the dynamic and problem. He needs to see this for himself in time through independent therapy.

But rest assured - do not doubt yourself or your actions to protect yourself - they are toxic, everyone else can see it. You have been drawn it but done well to wrestle yourself away. Keep it that way for life. They will never change. As other have said pre-empt and do not fall for the hoovering - the illness, when you have children etc.

Once you cut this dynamic out of your relationship you will be fine. If he cant respect your wishes you need to leave as this is untenable,

another20 the dynamic is very much the same as in joys case,

You are attributing WAY more perspective and control over the dh situation than he has.

My suggestion is that the dust is allowed to settle and conversations take place for both sides to rebuild trust.

Op because she has feelings of being let down, and dh because he has been under attack by his parents and has no ability to counter them. Until you have lived in a manipulative/narcissistic+enabler/toxic parent situation, you really won't get a sense of the terror these people inflict on their victims.

He felt it safer to let his mother have her way, such was his fear of her consequences.

People like this mil are out and out emotional terrorists and fil is the one backing it and enabling it all.

This situation can be salvaged, but it has to be done sensitively for both parties (op and h) and slowly - because h has to unlearn a lifetime of terror.

He also has potentially his entire family against him. It's a VERY confident and brave human being that is able to stand up and protect themselves against that tidal wave of disfunction. There's an element of the addiction here too, in that the family fear inside the victim will fight back and do anything to undermine someone trying to break with the status quo.

Op. You too must be brave. It's a no to the airport pick up, you won't be bullied and they can genuinely think/do what they like.

Remember there are police in airports, they can help if asked.

This is a journey for you both. The one thing that will help you is the love you do have for each other.

Op. You too must be brave. It's a no to the airport pick up, you won't be bullied and they can genuinely think/do what they like. Remember there are police in airports, they can help if asked

???

How will police at airports help the OP at this moment? Have you not read the full thread? The airport pickup issue was at Christmas, there has been a lot more going on since then!

((((((((((((Hugs))))))))))))))

And

More (((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))

Another thank you for thinking the best of me, but you have no idea How I was in my first few years with DH, how I completely fell apart again and went into self destruct mode again and how over the 23 years we've been together he continues to see beyond my behaviour and still stuck by me to help me through despite my attempts to push him away to protect him

I have shared some insight because I want for Vodka to see there is an alternative explaination other some rather vehemently sure opinions on here who believe they know her DH and don't see him as a victim. If Vodka is this affected by her MIL after only a few years, just think of how damaged her DH has been by a lifetime of knowing nothing else and thinking her normal. He's waking up to the fact his perception of his life was a lie.

Despite seeing clear parallels, I can't presume to assume that Vodka's DP is a good person who either isn't irreparably damaged, or that he can and wants to be fixed, or that Vodka even feels able to commit to a lifetime of her DP fighting his upbringing. I can understand it if she chooses a course of self preservation and as a 'normal' person is capable of seeing and acting on the fact that what's needed is NC, even if this means NC with her DH too in order to achieve this.

Vodka needs to look dispassionately at her DP and make that judgement call for herself, maybe chat to her parents about this too for other perspectives from people who actually know the situation and her DP but have her best interests at heart.

Her answers won't come from an anonymous forum, but the questions that need to be answered may will do.

Hissy - I am not suggesting that the DH has any control currently over the relationship with his mother - I see him also very much as a victim of the toxic narc. However he needs to deal with this himself independently through therapy, not collude with it and enable it to be extended to his DW. I appreciate that he does not see any of this yet.

So to start to break the chain of this disfunction the OP needs to extricate herself from her DHs behaviour to her regarding the parents.

She can put her boundaries down around not seeing them, not responding or engaging with them as well as him respecting / accepting her stance and not harassing her about it.

He does have control over how he behaves with her - if he is unable to do this she needs to leave him.

I have been in a 33 year relationship with my DH since we were both 17 and his toxic narc Mother has caused us endless distress. I wish I had known what I was dealing with. I wish I trusted my gut that this was toxic and abnormal instead of tap dancing to her tune. I wish I had given myself permission to extricate myself from the dynamic and take myself out of punching distance sooner than 2 years ago! He still sees his Mother, we dont talk about her, he accepts and respect my decision and I his. Life is so much better for me at least.

I have been lurking reading for a while and one thing that did stand out to me, Vodka, is that he could barely string a sentence together and felt as if "things were slipping past him" but he took time out during that state to send a silly text to a friend?

I hope you're feeling better today. I think you're doing amazingly.

Just checking in Vodka

How are you doing Vodka?

Your objection is noted and overruled. hmm

I'm an abuse survivor who was raped by a previous partner and will express parallels with my previous abuse and resulting behaviour if I choose

Overruled? You don't get to overrule anyone joy. So you know where you can shove those objections.

I too am a sexual abuse survivor who was raped by a previous partner and I can choose to NOT compare his situation to that of a woman who has been sexually assaulted if I choose.

Quite simply you are projecting. This isn't about you, the dh isn't you and there is nothing to suggest the dh has been sexually assaulted.

What's the atmosphere like now vodka for normal conversations like "What shall we have for dinner?" "Cup of tea?"

Are you being civil, warm and normal with each other? Or is every conversation PIL poisoned?

There's something quite uncomfortable about debating whether Vodka's DH suffers in a way similar to that of a sexual abuse survivor, when Vodka herself has survived abuse and has seen her survival used as yet another stick to beat her with by the MIL. I'm not the thread police, but it makes me uncomfortable.

Vodka, I hope you're ok.

You're missing the point. I have no objections.

I fully accept you can't relate to my experiences. That's ok, we don't all deal with things in the same way. What isn't fine is your objection to my experiences being different and attempts to shut up anyone that don't agree with you, it isn't healthy and it's rude.

Gone are the days when someone can forcefully express themselves and and talk over me and I roll over and accept it.

Nobody has said he's been sexually assaulted? My posts are to simply to give context for my views so readers can see what has shaped my views and see if they might be helpful.

I am entitled to speak for myself and will continue to do so. I suggest you block me given you're struggling to cope with that.