MIL no-contact, DH sad, what to do?

[DilapidatedGlamourpuss]

This is going to be long, and MIL related. Sorry. I just don’t know what to do, and I don’t want to dripfeed. This is so identifying to anyone who knows me but I don’t even care anymore.

I’ve been with my DH since we were 18 (we met at uni), and we married this year. We are in our late twenties. We relocated earlier this year for his job to the US. Our relationship is mostly great and we are very happy together. There’s one problem, my MIL. We are now completely estranged and its breaking my DH’s heart. We are due to go home for Christmas and I have no idea what we’re going to do.

I’ve always felt that MIL has disapproved of me, and we have clashed over the years when I have refused to toe the party line like the rest of the family. Everyone does what she says, because if they don’t she cries, or is ill, or starts an almighty row. I’m not used to such a manipulative dynamic in my own family, and it made me very wary of her.

Whatever we did wasn’t the right thing. Jobs, where we chose to live, the fact we hadn’t bought a property by 25, our friends, the fact that I have had MH problems and have had some time out of work over the last few years due to ill health.

When I was 19 and disclosed that I had been abused she asked whether I had been tested for STIs, as she didn’t want me to pass anything on to her son. I was going through the ordeal of seeing the case go to trial, giving evidence in court and watching it be plastered all over the national news at the time. It made me feel so ashamed and dirty and I have never forgotten it. She tried to persuade my DH to leave me at the time, something he let slip. I let it go then, as I was grateful she hadn’t thrown me out of their home for my disclosure. I have come a long way since then.

Over the years, I veered between avoiding her and trying to be accepting of her personality, out of love for my then DP. There were times when we got on better, even though I still felt the underlying disapproval. So, last year we got engaged and planned a wedding very quickly as we wanted to move to the US. We would have got married in the following 18 months-2 years, but we had been given this opportunity of a lifetime and to be together needed to be married. And that’s where the trouble began.

She ruined our engagement party by crying and storming off when she found out we weren’t going to be married in church. She continually made digs about this, even though she knew I had been abused in a church setting and this was really triggering for me, which I explained to her. She goaded me into screaming at her and getting completely hysterical when we went round there by constant little digs about how what we were planning wasn’t good enough, because she didn’t have enough involvement. I tried to involve her in the beginning, but she wanted to entirely take over so I drew back.

In the interests of full disclosure, we asked her to make the cake as this is something she does as a hobby and is very good at. I thought it would be a good way to make her feel involved, but I think this was a mistake. They also offered money, which we accepted. This was also not a good idea - we were able to pay for the wedding but I think DH didn’t know how to not accept their offer. I did meet her and forgive her for the above, before Christmas. I made some compromises to try and make her happy – not having the humanist ceremony we really wanted and we tried to accommodate them with the food.

My DH left for the US in January a few months before the wedding, so on the whole I had to plan it without him, but was running everything past him over Skype. I met her for coffee with my DMum, as I had a feeling she was going to create a scene or try and manipulate me, which is exactly what happened. What was meant to be a talk about wedding plans turned into her screaming that the wedding would be a shambles, it wouldn’t be real as it wasn’t a church wedding and that she wasn’t coming. In a shopping centre. It was so embarrassing and I was very upset. We tried to cut the scene short, and walked away. She followed, shouting at us. This is because I told her we would be getting married in another room than originally planned, because the guest list had gone up. She then sent me a very malicious text after. My DP was in the US, absolutely heartbroken and bewildered that she had said she wasn’t going to come.

To cut a very long story short, she came to the wedding and we managed to keep it civil. This was through various people in the DH’s family putting pressure on me to meet her and talk about it. Everyone is desperate to placate her all the time. After the wedding, I discovered she had tried to manipulate the wedding planner into changing the room, been horrible to my bridesmaids when they changed their dresses in the evening, ran our wedding down to anyone who would listen and had a massive row with her DSis because I met her for lunch. As far as I know, they still aren’t speaking.

After this, I decided I could have no contact with her. She made the run up to our wedding the most miserable time of my life, when it should have been happy. She does not understand why I won’t have anything to do with her, even though she has had it explained by various family members. My DP is desperate to have us in the same room at Christmas- we are both homesick and he is so sad that we are estranged, even though he is completely on the same page that what she has done is awful. She is still his Mum and he loves her, even though he doesn’t like her behaviour. I hate seeing him cry about this, but I’m still so angry with her I think meeting her would make it worse. I feel such hatred and bitterness towards her for everything that has happened over the years and I don't want to inflame the situation further by losing my temper.

So – does anyone have any idea where to go from here? If you got to the end of this congrats, it was long.

Longterm follower with a namechange Vodka.

I agree with SeaEagle that agreeing with him going on the cruise may be the breakthrough you've been needing. He's an adult abused kid, not in a poor little sausage way but in a fucked up brain connections, trauma, dissociation, learned survival strategies kind of way. He isn't capable of suddenly pulling it together and acting like a normally socialised, normally parented man, it would take a therapist to unpack what he's learned and help him figure out what 'normal adult partner' would look like.

I would suspect that MiL uses you as a stick to beat him with. You resist her power, you won't take her orders, you are a big goal in her mind to overcome. She constantly invests time and energy in overturning your boundaries and avoidance of her. I'd think it very likely she tortures dh about this, seeing him as a tool to get what she wants with you, and you'd have the best idea of how persistant or vicious she may be in this. His relief or escape from that is to try and manipulate and bambi-eyes you to get far enough past your boundaries to show compliance to MiL. Abused kids frequently are very manipulative and very good at fiddling boundaries, and are easily persuaded with little sense of self. They had to be to be able to survive living with their parents.

You have no idea what she said or did to him while she had him alone on that cruise, but it was a great opportunity for her to re programme him. It may be now he's home and he's applying that crap to you the cognitive dissonance is greater than he can handle. He desperately needs a good therapist, but most importantly you must have a therapist you can trust and talk to alone who has you in mind. Whether you can help dh get through this or not, you need that protection and help to process all this crap.

Btw more than one woman in your position on MN has mentioned their dh expressing out loud that their view of a life partner was someone to share the abuse with, someone who would be there with them in that burden- but they don't envisage their partner or anyone being strong enough to resist that abuse, they're alarmed and shocked if their partner just refuses to get involved or calls the abuser out on it, and they have no sense of 'I'll protect you from it'. In their world, nothing is more terrible or powerful than the abuser. Distorted kid thinking patterns, stuck like corks in a bottle.

Distorted kid thinking patterns, stuck like corks in a bottle.]

agreed there, definitely.

You still have your own life to lead though and MIL has made this into a battle to browbeat you down

I would not use the word 'manipulation' in regards to his behaviours as it's actually self-preservation.

Put yourself in his shoes, he doesn't know 'normal'. He now is realising his mother isn't normal and that he doesn't have to keep appeasing her. He's had a filter running his whole life to protect him and keep him safe and Vodka taking the stance of a normal person without the baggage of fear, obligation and guilt is gradually opening his eyes to what normal is in terms of a parent child relationship and in setting healthy boundaries and sticking to them.

This has to be a gradual process because it's too much to cope with in one go, to suddenly realise you're a victim and are extremely damaged and are in turn damaging the person you love most in the world because of it. If that hits you all in one go you'd snap.

So it's understandably taking time for him to process and it'll take even longer for him to learn to be different. He can't suddenly ditch all that FOG and know what boundaries are normal and how to consistently impose them.

So he's needed Vodka to take the lead and find a therapist, this doesn't mean he doesn't care, just that he isn't capable yet. Sounds like things are moving in the right direction but it'll take more time and come gradually.

I remember a number of threads by a member called Seol who was continually bombarded by LTB advice and blaming her victim dh for being a victim. There were a core few who understood and helped her to support her dh in his process of change. He could see more and more what his dm was, but then needed support and suggestions in how to cope with her. Thank goodness she stuck by him as the mil issue was their only sticking point in an otherwise good relationship. Hi seol if you're reading this!

I've x posted with a number of people who also understand how things are from the POV of an abuse victim. Thank goodness

Vodka you are making all sorts of assumptions. I'm still furious that he doesn't recognise that it's not on to fuck off for 12 hours at a time without a word to me.

Of course he recognizes its not ok. He's done it deliberately to control you,more manipulation on his part and now he's acting stupid. Don't fall into the trap of explaining why it wasn't ok, he knows full well. I would perhaps respond that I'm not sure I want to stay married to someone who doesn't get this basic stuff.

The only mitigating factor is I've never seen him like this- he can barely string a sentence together and keeps saying he can't remember stuff like how he got home, like stuff is slipping past him

Come on! You don't really believe this vodka, because if you did then surely you would have rang for an ambulance. Loss of memory and the inability to string a sentence together is very serious. It can suggest a stroke or a serious head injury. Did you check that he still had his wallet, or that he hadn't had a bump on the head? When I saw someone behaving like this it was very obvious something was terribly wrong, I rang an ambulance and unfortunately he'd had a massive stroke. So either you are an uncaring spouse who's neglecting to get a very ill person medical help or you didn't really believe him. Which is it?

I'm sorry to say that the whole thing is a sickening manipulation. And it's going to get a lot worse. He's starting to pretend to have mental health problems isn't he, and this often escalates into either outright suicide threats or subtle suggestions.

Unfortunately narcissistic mothers often produce sons who are covert narcissists. In your shoes I would read up about this because his manipulations, and in particular his lack of empathy for you is very concerning.

Loss of memory and the inability to string a sentence together is very serious

Yes it is, and is a form of defence in those suffering from shock.

I had this when I was trying to come to terms with the realisation I'd been raped in past having made up all sorts of excuses which gradually didn't hold up any longer and I started to fall apart.

My dh was the one who got me to my doctor then got me to a therapist. It was all to much and my brain would blank things out so I didn't have to deal with it. I couldn't have coped so went zombie like for a while.

Those of us who have been victims of abusive relationship will relate to this, things are blurry and when you begin to come out of the other side you look back and wonder how it all happened?

I'm certainly not manipulative despite having exhibited the same pattern of behaviours as vodka's dp, and I'm very lucky my dh had faith in me, believed me, didn't think the worst of me, and was emotionally mature enough to appreciate I needed him and wasn't taking the piss.

I think that someone in vodka's husband's shoes can be both manipulative -and- genuinely loving her -and- lost in the fog. All at once. Comes with having been trained and abused.

But if he doesn't break free it will never change. The price is very high.

I guess it comes down to intention and motive.

Manipulation is a term which implies being considered behaviour to be unfair or unscrupulous. This is the intended use on this thread too.

In victims of abuse, they are conditioned to a pattern of behaviour to protect themselves. This isn't with malicious intent.

Spend Xmas day together, just the 2 of you, in a hotel.

You can see the rest of the family before and after Xmas or even join one of your friends for Xmas.

Don't go to hers.

mm unconscious manipulation is still manipulation.

tbh i can have sympathy for it as long as I don't have to deal with it myself. I'm allergic to it now

but once people finally start to break free of the FOG then often they drop the manipulation, i think

Yes it is, and is a form of defence in those suffering from shock

I may have misunderstood but there doesn't appear to be any reason for the dh to be suffering from shock. It read to me that he had left the home when the op declined to meet the inlaws , then maintained radio silence. Apart from texting his friend being silly.

It bothers me that women are expected to constantly care take men and martyr themselves. Whether it's an in law issue or a stressed at work issue it's always the same. Women are actively encouraged to endlessly support and put others first and solve other peoples problems. Along with being encouraged to excuse shitty behaviour. Might it be this, might it be that? Who cares? Shitty behaviour is shitty behaviour and shouldn't be excused.

The solution to this problem is quite simple. The op needs to firmly shut down any further discussion about the inlaws. He's an adult and can manage his relationship with them himself. If as some suggest he is a victim of them, he needs professional support, something vodka cannot do, and shouldn't try to.

Either way, they're his parents, it's his relationship, and only he can fix it. It's entirely unreasonable of him to present this to vodka as her problem to solve.

Sending a hand hold and some more

He's meeting them for lunch. We have a saying where I live, "that says more about him/her than cash ever can".

You see this a feminist issue Rogue when it isn't. I, and other women who are abuse victims can certainly relate to the DP's coping strategies.

I'm certainly not minimising what my dh has had to cope with over the years, but I'm thankful he could see past my behaviour to remember that I'm a good person who didn't want to be like that.

What do you think Vodka? Is your DP the product of his upbringing or trying to play you? Neither I, or anyone on this thread can make the call as to the motives behind the behaviour of your DP. Only you can do that. Look at him logically vodka, is he a victim wanting to escape his past and not quite there yet, or someone motivated by trying to control and manipulate with no intentions or wish to change?

I don't quite know what to say to everyone. Many posts and I'm feeling a bit foggy from everything going round and round.

Am writing some lists. Of what I expect of my DH for us to be able to move forward, and the boundaries I require him to accept and respect.

Therapist calling us both back separately.

I am still considering going home for a while. Stakes are high- he's got to wise up and work with me wholeheartedly if we are to get past this.

Whatever you do Vodka it's clear it'll be well thought out.

You're clearly a thoughtful and logical person. None of us know him and it's up to you to cherry pick what you believe is your best way forwards.

If he's at the stage of wanting to change and ready to see a professional to push on with this, now might not be the best time to go away as he'll need you. Having said that, you are also allowed to look after your own needs and if you need a break, take it knowing you'll be better able to think about your needs if you do. That has to be your first priority.

Vodka you don't have to say anything to us. This is your thread- the most important thing is that you get support.

(Hope that makes sense - very tired )

Let them get on the plane, let him get home and decompress a bit, then see where you are when the poison gas has gone

Now he wont discuss therapy or talk to anyone at all. He says he can't because he can't think straight and can we talk about it in a few days. I'm on my knees here and totally desperate.

hope the fog clears soon

Here have a . There's a comfy seat here, you don't have to sit on your knees.

Take a sip of your tea, take a deep breath and relax.

You can borrow my to cuddle.

Oh, Vodka, no advice but I am so sorry.

for you Vodka, because I feel that won't quite cut it right now. (It's 6.30 where I am, so I should probably stick to )

You can't save him. And right now, he won't save you.

So, you need to be in a caretaker role, yes. Of you and you alone.