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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh 2

954 replies

Lilacpink40 · 18/10/2016 18:14

Hope this works...

OP posts:
nicenewdusters · 06/11/2016 14:45

If I do dare to enter the world of dating you will be my dating guru Lilac !!

Froginapan · 06/11/2016 14:50

OhB - so long as you are reasonably acting in your DCs best interests I doubt it would have much bearing.

Froginapan · 06/11/2016 14:51

Dusters - I vote for giving HJM an invite to coffee!

Lilacpink40 · 06/11/2016 15:06

Dusters I agree with Frog, but do it on the basis of friendly work advice. Then pop a few casual things in, e.g. "we both know what it's like to balance work and lives...". Pause for him to fill in gaps. That way if he mentions a GF or unusual preferences you have get out clause as it was just work meeting. If he seems ok and keen you could try, "this has been lovely we should do it again sometime". Grin

OP posts:
Natsku · 06/11/2016 15:08

Ohb the threats give you a sound reason for refusing unsupervised contact right now, especially combined with the fact he hasn't bothered seeing him for a year so he'll essentially be a stranger to your son.

nicenewdusters · 06/11/2016 15:09

Frog I'd like to, but that would be such a massive leap from the level at which I know him to the next step. I think I would genuinely look a bit nuts if I did. Up until the last chat it's been the odd hello, a wave here and there, how's things type of chat. I have no idea of his life at the moment. He may well be sitting happily at home, recovering from his break up, not even thinking about dating - let alone me !

I feel the next time I see him (fingers crossed this Tuesday) it'll have to be "shit or bust" as they say !! He's a bit older than me, I think he'd be surprised that I'm interested in getting to know him. So I may have to pretend I need his business services, I'll have to see if I can pluck up the courage!!! Aaahhhh.......

nicenewdusters · 06/11/2016 15:14

Oooh lilac you're good, I like that approach. I love the idea of unusual preferences !?! Better keep quiet about my cross-dressing bell ringing I guess Wink

Ohb0llocks · 06/11/2016 15:20

I have been reading horror stories about cafcass - will my ex be able to use mental health issues (anxiety/maybe PTSD) in court? He has said in the past that if I don't 'get rid' of the anxiety that he will make sure social services will let DS live with him/put him in care.

Froginapan · 06/11/2016 15:27

OhB - mental health is a common tactic when it comes to abusive men and court.

Considering it has been all this time I'd call his bluff and stand my ground.

So long as you are engaging with help and support for any issues there should be no worries.

I personally doubt he will make an application for contact.

Froginapan · 06/11/2016 15:29

Also, ask yourself this question:

If Ex is so concerned about your parenting capacity then where the fuck is he?

If he was a good parent and had reasonable grounds for removing DC from your care he would have done so.

He's full of EA hot air.

greencarbluecar · 06/11/2016 15:42

Thank you all Flowers

purple just saw your earlier post, yes I do try and write things down although I'm not very good at remembering to do it, or finding a moment to. Time to get better at it I think.

dusters Yes I think you've understood, the background is very specific but it's significant. He isn't seeing someone else (to my knowledge, at least, but WN did it so I don't want to be naive) but has talked about it. I've tried to be understanding that he's under stress, but this feels too far, of course sometimes feelings just change but he's saying they haven't? It's hurtful and confusing and now it's as if nothing happened I'm waiting...with feelings jumping around. Yes it would be difficult to avoid him if I cut it off. I have thought about doing that, but again I don't trust my own judgement and don't want to do the wrong thing because of WN effects. And yes, he does know about WN and as you say it's bizarre that he of all people is making me feel this way, hence I'm reeling and have niggling worries that WN was right all along. Thank you, I don't feel amazing.

lilac I think I've probably answered your question there too? Years of conditioning and a complicated, unresolved situation Sad

oh I don't think it will matter about previous unsupervised contact as there were no concerns (threats) at the time. You're dealing with now. Make sure you have copies of everything he says to you.

greencarbluecar · 06/11/2016 15:44

Also what frog said up there ^

Mine's pulled this one too, they all do. Not here protecting their DC from us crazy women though, are they?

Natsku · 06/11/2016 15:58

No experience of CAFCASS but have experienced the Finnish version. As long as you are following treatment for any mental health issues, instead of ignoring them or being in denial of them (like my ex) then its not a concern. I have really bad anxiety and fairly bad depression, I told the social workers when they did their living situation assessment and what treatment I'm receiving (meds and therapy) and they were fine with it. I also accepted all the help they offered me (free daycare for DD and a family social worker to visit) I imagine CAFCASS have similar guidelines for assessing parents.

Chrystal1982 · 06/11/2016 16:03

Sorry can't remember who asked as I've got baby brain but we have no idea what SF hopes to gain! Yes he is desperate to maintain the status quo he thinks of the boys as still being 5. DS1 has not been back to SF's since his birthday by his own choice (he walks home from school each day and could at any point go to his fathers instead if he wanted, I'm not in anyway refusing to return him) poor DS2 almost 14 desperately wants to live with me full time too, he told SF this and was told 'I've got the paperwork to keep you until you're 18' 😡 DS3 almost 13 and DS4 10 are happy with current arrangements. SF thinks he's going to get the same easy ride he got last time, I had a terrible battle to get the 3 days/4 days a week custody thanks to disability team and cafcass report but it's a whole different ball game this time round! The sw involved (for different unrelated and outting so can't say reason but was sorted out and been signed off) this time can see right through him, he didn't watch his p's and q's when he contacted her when I didn't force DS1 back to SF's (he only cared that I had dared to 'break' the order' and she's noted him as being controlling and not showing 'due concern' for his children! I don't think he gets that as she's been the most recent 'authority' to speak to the boys and knows the family she will be the one to be asked to assess. Before this sw had encouraged me to take him back to court anyway and is definitely on my/the boys side.
I don't understand why a solicitor has taken him on tbh I'm going to be ringing round to get one myself tomorrow but my mum is going to have to help with fees (she's willing) as I can't afford it as SF has stopped the voluntary maintenance agreement and we're battling over child benefit.
Currently thinking my position will be DS1&DS2 residency with me, DS3&DS4 residency with SF and contact with nrp as and when the children want so basically choice, does that sound reasonable? It also allows DS1 and DS2 to not be forced to see SF at all if they don't want but that wouldn't be explicitly stated.
Sorry for the long post

nicenewdusters · 06/11/2016 16:08

Ohb I agree with Frog and everyone else. Imagine you were sitting in judgement, looking at you and your ex as parents. Think of all the positives that would go in your favour. What positives does he have? He's basically a sperm donor (sorry to be crude). A turkey baster could fulfill that role.

The only person who thinks he's a good parent, and that he could take your ds away, is him. He's messing with your head because he doesn't have another angle. He doesn't have a good track record as a parent and as your partner, so he has to try and rubbish you. But he's the rubbish.

nicenewdusters · 06/11/2016 16:15

I think that sounds very reasonable Chrystal

With the two oldest back with you permanently, d'you think that will change your youngest two's wishes to maintain the status quo? What I mean is d'you think they'll want to spend more time in your home, as that's where their brothers are likely to be full-time?

Froginapan · 06/11/2016 16:25

Green - I'm only going from what you have said here but using stress as an excuse to keep you hanging and him talking about seeing someone else are not good signs at all. If this is what he is doing then he's being an utterly selfish shit wanting to keep you in the wings just in case.

Chrystal1982 · 06/11/2016 16:27

dusters yes I think it's likely in the long run, DS4 in particular wants the option of not coming to me every weekend hence the 'choice' option but the novelty will wear off in time, he's the baby and SF has always babied him and he's canny enough to play on it well

Ohb0llocks · 06/11/2016 16:42

That's certainly good to know.

My head really is all over the place. It's all happening so fast I'm so scared. I'm torn between wanting DS to have a dad and 2 parents that can get on, and then selfishly I think well why should I do anything I'm not comfortable with he's my son, I've done it on my own since the very beginning practically he doesn't deserve him.

Then I think was the EA bad enough. Am I being dramatic. What if I don't go along like a good girl and rock the boat and he hates me again but still gets unsupervised access to DS and doesn't return him/fucks with his head. Damned if I do and damned if I don't.

Lilacpink40 · 06/11/2016 17:23

Green and frog really picking up and agreeing with the "not here protecting their DC from us crazy women though, are they?" point-of-view. My ex has hinted at my poor parenting skills, yet doesn't take them overnight. Surely if he had concerns he'd want to take them to give them a break from me?

In reality he knows it would be break for me and I'd get more of a life. I dearly love my DCs, but I could really do with a regular few nights off every month.

Ohb sorry to say with a narc ex you will never please them or get anywhere near peaceful solution. Give them all the money in the world and it would be "why didn't you give it earlier?".

OP posts:
nicenewdusters · 06/11/2016 17:55

Greencar - I wasn't sure whether to say anything but I really agree with frog

Who even talks about possibly seeing someone else before they're officially parted? And stress??!! Um, Mr Other Man, this is Greencar, have you met? He's stressed out !? I know it's not a competition and one person's stress doesn't cancel out anothers, but fgs.

Your tingling feeling that WN was right all along? No. I'd say that's your gut instinct and new found knowledge that Other Man isn't right for you either. He sounds like hugely hard work.

Ohb Please don't be torn. There's missing out on a dad, and then there's not missing out on a "dad" who's a selfish, violent wanker who'd like the mother of his child to not exist. I doubt he'd thank you in later life for helping him to have a relationship with this scumbag.

And it's not selfish to think why should you do anything you're not comfortable with. You're right, you've brought him up, and he doesn't deserve him. You're protecting him, that's not selfish.

As for the EA not being bad enough. Just from your posts and the texts he sounds unstable and cruel. No doubt you have a hundred other examples. People don't consider they might have PTSD because their ex was a bit mean. What you remember and felt, that's what it was. His phone call, a year down the line, promising to be different and a good dad, that changes nothing.

You say it's all happening so fast. He phoned, you emailed sols, you advised him of this, he contacted you again. You hold all the cards, you do it at your pace, he can't rush you.

Ohb0llocks · 06/11/2016 18:09

Deep down I know you're all right but I can't help but think what if! I just don't want my DS to be brought up around conflict, not wanting to talk to mummy about daddy and vice versa.

The unsupervised access scares me, although I know he's not likely to get that right away...

Ohb0llocks · 06/11/2016 18:19

I think I need a plan, a little checklist of what to do so I feel less overwhelmed and more focused. Any takers? I know some people love a good list!

Starting with a date with DP tonight (don't want to go I feel anxious but he's doing his best to take my mind off it). Doctors in the morning. I've asked him to come with me as I'm crap at articulating how I feel to others, he will pick up any points I've told him I want to discuss and then forget about because I'm getting worked up.

nicenewdusters · 06/11/2016 18:38

Ok Ohb I'll have a go!

GP visit - write a brief paragraph to sum up current position re ex and request for contact. Then questions to ask re therapy, medications, other routes for assistance.

List of events with ex since birth of ds. To include threats (verbally and in writing), his contact with ds, events involving you, involvement of third parties, eg the police, lack of financial maintenance. Also any witnesses to his behaviour.

Write out what would be your justification for refusing
a) supervised contact
b) unsupervised contact
c) any form of shared custody

Detail everything you know about your ex. Employment history, drink/drug use, family, other dc ?, etc.

Is that the kind of thing you were thinking of ?

Ohb0llocks · 06/11/2016 19:22

Yes.

I wouldn't refuse supervised contact, however I'd oppose unsupervised unless something could be put in place to ensure that

  1. He couldn't refuse to return ds
  2. He couldn't mentally abuse DS

I don't know how likely the courts are to take it seriously, or if they will just see it as something he's said in a rage.