support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh 2

[Lilacpink40]

Hope this works...

Dating is exciting, but now I'm doubting it and myself. I'm thinking about if him talking about few friends is it a red flag, but then he's close to the friends he has. If some of his jokes were red flags, but they were jokes. Argh off to bed to stop over-analysing.

Night LILAC. don't over analyse expert of doing it myself so know it's not so easy to stop I hope you can enjoy the time you had with your date and see what happens.take it very slowly and see how it goes. Sounds like whatever happens, you had a fun evening?

Room for a newbie? Been very happily divorced from exh (known as shitface/SF) since 1st April '13. Had a court order in place for contact for our 4 ds, ds1 four nights a week (this includes all weekend every weekend) ds2,3&4 3 nights a week (also weekend) SF is ea and controlling with a good mask and caffcass believed his every lie (bad mother etc no evidence or proof) hence the custody arrangement. DS1&2 never happy with this as they have never got on with SF, in fact Ds1 and SF actively dislike each other, but it allowed me to go back to education. Fast forward to a week into October this year, ds1 turned 16 and after telling me, SF and a sw for months/years he wanted to live with me full time, he's already classed as my dependent not SF's, with blessing from sw I didn't force him back to his fathers, police visit 'oh he's 16? No worries then sorry to have bothered you' que notice of court order landing on my doorstep this morning, I'm apparently 'refusing to return ds1' err no he's free to come or go as he pleases wrt seeing/living with his father. The presumed reason for all this? I have a new partner and I'm currently 29wks pregnant I apparently 'must pay'

2012 - perhaps I'm being a bit naive but that sounds like a result with your ex. Silent treatment, ignoring you on pick up, then treating your ds. So no offensive communications, no nasty verbal comments, and ds has a nice day.

Ohb - he really is thick, as well as vile. Those comments to you couldn't make him look any worse. So sorry you've been subjected to that. I noticed he contacted you today, despite being told you'd be in touch next week when you'd heard back from your solicitor. Did he phone you or text/email you? He doesn't have any boundaries with you does he (clear from his disgusting texts). Can you block/ignore?

greencar. I guess his response is no surprise to you. So, you raise an issue affecting the well being of your dc, and he counters with threats of court and custody battles. This is so predictable, he couldn't possibly examine any aspect of his life with the dc to see if there is any reason for their discomfort. How could there be, he's perfect and so is she. You were quite right to raise it of course.

Glad your dating is going well Lilac. Don't want to be a kill joy but you mention insecurities. Are we in rescuing territory here ? Or were they understandable, normal, everyday type stuff.

Hello Chrystal always room for more. That sounds terribly hard, having your ds's away at SF's (love the name by the way) that much. Presumably you can just ignore the court order now, given your son's age and wishes, and the actions of sw and the police? He's obviously still bitter and twisted, but you have a lovely new baby to look forward to. Nothing he can do about that.

Hi dusters yeah it's been hard but we've all kind of got on with it, when ds2 and then a year later ds3 started high school we agreed together that they could also stay with me a fourth night with ds1 as the court order stated changes could be made with agreement, so I've had majority custody of 3 ds for over one year, he stopped them coming the extra night as soon as ds1 didn't return. Yep police and sw said what's the problem? But no he's now applied for an enforcement order to get him back using ds Autism as the grounds (he's mainstream, doing his gcse's this year and is fully cognisant of exactly what is going on) because apparently I've influenced him 🙄 SF's control is slipping, don't know how he thinks he's going to win with a 16yo and an almost 14yo saying that they want to live with me full time
New baby a bit of a surprise tbh lol although we're all looking forward to ds5 no girls allowed it seems!

Chrystal, crazy how these narcs have so many rights and not even professionals can see through them.

Foof, please gonup EOW

Go to not gonup

Green do you keep a note of everything said by DS etc?

I don't mean copies of WN's emails, more comments made. I set up a Word document and listed all dates there.. if something is said, bad day at school after long weekend there or the like I just type it up quick. It's amazing how you forget things and it helps to look back and keep a perspective/realise how many times things said.

DUSTERS - you are right. I should enjoy it.🙂
I wish I could shake the "knot in my stomach - there's gonna be a fallout/payback for this" - feeling!

2012 - I know that feeling! I say to DP every time I sit and think 'oh I really am happy' something crops up.

Not looking forwards to getting back to reality tomorrow (it's been half term here). Feel like everyone will be going back to normal with no thought how DS' life is about to get so confusing for him.

Crystal SF sounds as though he's desperate to maintain status quo without realising DCs grow up and will vote with their feet. I can't believe that a solicitor is taking this on, but I guess there are always the ones willing to take money for pointless ventures. Your DCs opinions will surely be counted and, in the meantime, let your DCs decide and you're in the right place to vent here. Is your DS1 back home yet?

Dusters this is part of my analysis or over analysis "is he needy?". In his favour...neutral about ex, long separated, used to independance, appears honest. Against...questions my sincerity lots, concerns over am I over ex, can be judgmental.

2012 and Ohb I'm waiting to see what my ex has in store for me now. I've ignored some horrible messages and kept away from him at crossover points so he's not had a chance to get at me. He's still not taking them overnight and that's going to cause problems for my relationship(s) in the future, as my mum already helps and doesn't want to take on more.

Does anyone have court ordered contact?

I'm thinking it may be best if I apply to the court myself? I just want this dealt with as soon as possible. Or maybe if I apply myself I'll be seen as willing and I'm more likely to get what's best for DS.

I do, Ohb. When you're dealing with someone like your ex it can sometimes be the best way to make things easier

Ohb I can't help with the court ordered contact question I'm afraid. I totally get why you want it sorted asap. But I'm worried it'll look like he's got you on the run - which (understandably) he has. There's already an offer on the table of a contact centre. He's said he'll do anything to make a relationship with his son. So let HIM do the "anything".

He only contacted you last week. You've already contacted your solicitor and got back to him. And he's already hassling you.

2012 - I know what you mean about the payback feeling.

Lilac - by the very fact of me being on this thread (ie not a relationship expert!!) I'm hesitant to comment upon your date. But. What is he questioning your sincerity about - wanting to be with him? And the judgemental bit. It seems a bit early for someone to be displaying that trait. Sounds a bit heavy for this early stage. Tell me if I'm way off, don't want to add to your worries.

Dusters what do you mean on the run?

Gah, sorry, brain not in gear.

Yes, it can make things easier but Dusters is right - the onus is on him to make an application for contact. The ball is in his court - you are offering contact on your terms and as long as what you are offering is reasonable and justified a court won't think you're not 'willing'.

I think my best option is speak to my solicitor see what she thinks is best and get her to draft a letter out to him.

crystal SF sounds deluded. At the age your DC are at, they can and will make their own decisions. What does he think he can do to stop them?!

oh can you ask solicitor about whether you applying to court first is a good move? Or try one of the free legal advice helplines for DA?

lilac what is he being judgemental about? I like your for and against list idea, it's a good way of keeping balance. I understand the worry of contact affecting future relationships, I wish I had a solution.

I'm having a bad day today. DC gone to WN after a lot of back and forth. No dusters his reaction was no surprise, I merely gave him some information and he kicked off, threw threats around, accused me of lying and told me I'd brought it on myself. Just what living with him was like, but at least he can't touch me now. I'm waiting for the payback, wondering what it'll be. It could be subtle, and at any time. In many ways I find that more frightening than the physical aggression which you can at least see.

Down about almost-ex again too. Currently acting like nothing has happened. No idea how to take that or whether it's mind games like WN would play (instinct says no, but my judgement is shot and if it's not, what is it?). I had myself almost convinced that he doesn't deserve me, then things are all normal and I think was it just a mad moment under pressure? Or is that me being conditioned to accept crap again, he could be doing all sorts I don't know about just like WN? I think of all the moments where he reacted to things like a normal person whereas WN would have found something to punish me for, and I know he's not like him. But that means I can't put this down to a fundamental personality flaw and feel well out of it. I trusted him, maybe I should have known better as once upon a time I trusted WN too. How I'll ever trust myself again I don't know, and I think that's one of the biggest things WN has taken from me. While off he goes swanning through life with absolute conviction in himself.

Sometimes I really don't know how to face dealing with this for years and years to come.

LILAC- I totally missed that your date was questioning your sincerity!
I'm sorry for my - sit back and enjoy - comments earlier.
It's hard to know what's going on after a w/n isn't it. Maybe a bit of space /distance might make it a bit clearer. But who the heck am I to
Give advice.... !? I really am a bit of a fuck-up when it comes to relationship/friendships- I have totally no idea and get lost, confused, don't know how to pitch things- all the time .
One new-ish friends seems lovely, tho I've had a complete disaster recently where I'd gotten it all wrong and it ended in a bit of a Mess!
Have a good Sunday everyone🌞 It's nice and sunny here

GREEN 💐 Sorry you're having a bad day...

Sorry you're feeling low, Green

Ohb - sorry if that was a bad phrase to use. I meant that he had you worrying, and starting to think about what you should be doing as opposed to what he should be doing. It'll be useful for you to hear what your solicitor thinks the next step should be.

greencar have things finished between you and other man? I got that impression from recent posts, didn't you say he was seeing someone new? If you have some history, I assume he must know a fair bit about what you've been through with WN. In light of that the acting like nothing's happened sounds like a worry. It sounds like a lot has happened. I know too much detail is outing, but if you finished the whole thing is he someone you'd still see around, sounds like he's connected to you in some way?

I never thought I'd trust anybody, ever again. But after 18 months + I can feel that changing, I'm sure you will too. In my case I've had to be brutally honest with myself, and recognise some of the reasons why I've made bad choices. I've really questioned why I've let certain people behave in various ways towards me, and why I've always been other people's cheer leader but never my own.

Weirdly I keep saying positive things about myself - out loud! I never used to, did you? The other day two friends were saying how hard it was when their dh's were away. One said Dusters, you must find that all the time? I said no, I cope well on my own, I don't find it a burden that it's all down to me, in fact in some ways it's easier. The more I'm positive about things the more confident I feel. This makes me feel stronger in my dealings with people, which may well have helped my trust issues. But then again I haven't tried dating yet!

I have to say greencar I'm in awe of what you deal with, you sound amazing. The idea that this other man is bringing you down seems absurd - especially if he's supposed to be someone that's close to you and gets you?

He has had unsupervised contact in the past, would that affect anything? This I was before the threats etc.

Ohb he chose to send you threats. I would think you'd be absolutely fine in taking them at face-value (real) and stopping access. I'd seek legal advice, but be more inclined to let him organise court. He may change his mind again and decide not to pursue this?

Green your exP seems to have really have integrated into your thoughts. Do you think that you may be using him as an example to, unpurposefully, blame yourself for everything as you're used to being in this position?
It sounds as though he's acting normally to try to move on, but he may still have feelings. Did you have a closure conversation, or is this still left with the door ajar?

The judgmental comment for date was in general. I start from a position expecting to like new people, I think he starts more suspiciously. It could be a case of me looking for red flags though!

Dusters good on you for your positive comments. I think you sound ready for looking into dating.