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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh 2

954 replies

Lilacpink40 · 18/10/2016 18:14

Hope this works...

OP posts:
greencarbluecar · 05/11/2016 09:57

messedup he sounds similar to mine. "integrated her into my space", perfect way to describe it. I try not to do anything for him I don't have to. Sorry to hear about your redundancy.

I have a dilemma. WN introduced new woman very quickly (we're talking days, and she was completely new). It's been a few months now and of course he's moving at lightning speed, she's nearly trapped. He's never told me about her but I am aware. Although there have been a few things said by DC I'm unhappy about I've not said anything because it'll just make him worse, and not much I can do legally. However, DC now reluctant about contact and saying it's because of her. I can't get anything clear about why, exactly, just "don't like her" so it could just be her constant presence which he insists on because it suits him. Just to be clear, I've never blamed her, this is his bad parenting. But what do I do now? Tell him she's been explicitly mentioned as the reason why not? He must realise by now that I know about her, not telling me is just his lack of respect, i.e. I'm not significant enough to tell (there is more to this, I know it's engineered to make me feel worthless). Gently try getting more info from DC? Stop all contact, is that too extreme? NW could be anyone, after all, and WN doesn't put his DC needs first.

God, what a mess I've made. Earlier I was worrying about whether almost-ex is shagging OW, now I'm worrying that WN has NW upsetting my DC. And still can't trust my own judgement. Help!

PurpleThursday · 05/11/2016 10:04

Oh green.

That is the problem though - you can't see the wood for the trees. I can't see the clearest thing in front of me, in a permanent muddle, I do have moments of clarity that are becoming clearer but I reached a point where I didn't trust my own mind! All I can think is it's because of years of having your feelings ignored, having clear facts denied, having choices you make dominated and controlled, and being lied to. Repeatedly. You don't know which way is up.

Can you find out more info about her from anyone else? Mutual friends/social media or his family? I think a bit of knowledge about her is a necessity given your DCs are left with her.

greencarbluecar · 05/11/2016 10:30

purple I know a little from those kind of sources. Enough to work out a few things and know that she's vulnerable, which is why he's gone for her. I feel very sorry for her actually, she will think her dreams have come true at the moment when in reality she's sleepwalking into a nightmare. There's nothing that says she's a problem herself, DC wouldn't still be going if there was, but I do think her judgement ability could be, understandably, low at the moment and he is controlling everything.

I have been debating what to do about contact in light of his recent behaviour, but it seems I have to let something happen before I can stop it which seems unacceptable to me. But, as you say he messed with my reality for so long I don't know which way is up (see above heartbreak and confusion over almost-ex). You've described it perfectly. The main thing so far has been not to give him any knowledge unnecessarily, so I'm wary of doing that now. But if I don't mention it, he'll just claim he didn't know about DC being unhappy about her being there?

FoofFighter · 05/11/2016 10:40

Well, I say new man - we've been seeing each other for 18m now!

nicenewdusters · 05/11/2016 10:44

Foof glad your new man will be at the fireworks with you, but it doesn't lessen the pain of dd not being at your side. Have a little silent tear, fireworks often make me cry anyway, but then I'm a big wuss!

Given what was agreed at mediation, can't you now inform him that you no longer work weekends so it will be eow. How can he argue against that (I know a narc can argue the sky is green, but I mean a proper reason?)

Greencar I think I'd try and get a bit more info. Depending on what you think the problem is, you have every right to bring it up. I'm damn sure he would if the situation was reversed. For starters, it blows his ridiculous secret gf out of the water. You don't have a right to know about his private life, but you do have the right to know if he's introducing another adult to your dc on a regular basis whom they're uncomfortable with. It's irrelevant that it's a gf, it could be a family member, friend, neighbour, so don't let him play the jealousy card.

And YOU have not made a mess. Stop being so hard on yourself. Life is messy, whatever happens, we've just been unlucky to meet these men and now we're doing our best. Don't carry their blame.

Purple I think the muddled mind is years of all those things you say. I'm watching my friend struggling to convince herself that she's allowed to throw the book at her dp. He's having an affair in plain sight, now out in the open, but refusing to leave the home. He's lying to her, gas lighting, manipulating, trying every trick in the book. She's so ground down she has to check her reality with me and others. I told her that it was ok to stop actually being his dp, cooking for him, doing his washing, giving him lifts etc. I could see she was unsure if this was true. She's intimidated by him, and he knows it. She literally doesn't know which way is up Sad

greencarbluecar · 05/11/2016 11:23

Sorry foof I missed your post in my turmoil. congrats on the 18m! Good luck for the fireworks, I'd find that difficult too. Agree it's got to be worth a go just telling him you'll be eow now as per the agreement?

nice it is ridiculous isn't. Particularly given how fast he's moving. He did the same with me, he's doing so many things he did with me, hence my genuine pity for her. I'm going to try asking DC more then decide what to do. Experience tells me that any information he has, e.g. knowing I have objections to NWs presence, he will use to twist things, hurt me or prepare to counteract anything I do, which is why I'm hesitating.

One positive is that I'm not in the slightest bit jealous (not saying you think I am, trying to see the good things!). So it could be worse, emotionally for me. I'm not jealous of OW with almost-ex either, if he can behave like this then I'm not sure there's much to be jealous of now I just have to stop caring about him The background is complicated, long standing and involves some deep stuff. Which I am struggling with (not helped by effects of WN, as ever) and possibly he is too. I have tried to be understanding of that. But I don't go round looking for other people, and after everything between us that's what hurts. It's still unresolved but I'm finding it difficult knowing he could be doing whatever he wants regardless, just like WN. I will take on board what you said about carrying their blame. I did it with WN and may be defaulting to it here too.

Flowers to your friend, that sounds truly awful and I recognise the description of that lost, confused, almost nervous feeling.

2012PP · 05/11/2016 12:12

🌺🌸💐🌻🌹 for everyone. Omg. I've just read through last couple of pages and I'm furiously angry for ALL the shit Everyone has got to put up with.
Fucking hell! Every day, day in -day out we manage -cope.
I would love to throw a huge bonfire party for w/n survivors where we could throw the bastards on the fire and watch them explode away!
(Rescuing again!- but for the lovely, caring, sensitive, thoughtful ones only).
I am truly in awe of how you all do it and think you're great 🌞.

My X is doing the Disney bit this w/e.
After the tax & broadband fiasco , I had no maintenance, so I emailed out about money to which I had the bleeding heart response about "I pay more than the recommendation csa, I pay for this and that, I don't earn much" et all bull shit.
I snapped & sent a fierce (for me) reply about how they can afford to pay to belong to a blasted golf club, pay to go away in the summer for 3 weeks and again for a week at half term and again for a week next week, and that Had they forgotten that I know (& have proof about) exactly just how much X does actually earn - due to the said tax return- and basically don't fuck with me you w/n or I'll use what I know against you!
I've never reacted so strongly towards X so I was then terrified. I got the silent treatment, and completely ignored on pick up yesterday.
However, ds called me this morning and is apparently having an absolutely fab time -out to fireworks thing last night, somewhere else this morning, somethings else this afternoon, this evening, more fireworks, more Lego / toys presents etc... A complete turn around from the normal crap X doesn't do with ds!

I'm actually a bit scared of fireworks so will be at home with some wine and a film!

Anyway, I hope you all enjoy your fireworks nights whatever you do, and wherever you are and whoever you are with.

Natsku · 05/11/2016 13:31

Hope everyone has a nice fireworks night, whether with DC or not. Wish I could have a fireworks night here but not allowed to set off fireworks except at New Year, shall have to stick to sparklers.

Ohb0llocks · 05/11/2016 15:20

Just checking in. Hope everyone is ok as can be. Taking DS to see some fireworks tonight. He's just having a snooze next to me in bed. Moments like this are so precious and pure.

I'm trying to make some sort of list of things I need to do to get this shit situation sorted out. May inform him phone calls need to stop, communicate via text only. Then all is in writing things can't be twisted. Read through old emails and texts from him earlier. Makes for depressing reading 'I will, and I promise you, tell DS what a cock loveing slut his mother is', 'if I had the money I would pay someone to kill you', 'go and cry to the doctors about your cuckoo condition' (anxiety Portu or PTSD caused by him), 'I've called social services they aren't happy about you having anxiety attacked in front of DS', 'everyone hates you, take your anxiety and jump of a cliff it will speed up the inevitable, me and DS will be together soon and you'll regret being a cunt with me, the only thing you will have is DS and I'll make sure he knows you kept him away from me'.

What if he's right. What if DS will be so easily manipulated.

2012PP · 05/11/2016 17:07

OHB... that's really horrid 💐.
I have no idea how you could handle that - - I didn't want to read and run - I actually want to kick his horrible/ pig-ass into oblivion - . What horrible things to say.
How old are /is you dc's? Can you say - like others have mentioned on here - about age appropriate truth? That X says horrible things because he's cross... That is not true etc..,...?

Ohb0llocks · 05/11/2016 17:19

DS is only 2, he is 3 in Jan and hasn't seen him for a year!

2012PP · 05/11/2016 17:43

OHB.0.
that's so hard.
Ds is little, so hopefully won't fully understand w/n's snide comments too much????
Does he have to see X?
I'm a bit naïve about this so apologise if it's obvious or I ask anything silly 🙂.
Given that your ds is so small and your Ex hasn't seen him... How does the Law work? I mean can you not argue that ex hasn't made any effort etc...?

Ohb0llocks · 05/11/2016 17:53

I have no idea! He only recently got in touch the day before yesterday so it's still so raw. I have no idea what to do.

I'm am seeing my doctor about possible PTSD on Monday, then from there hopefully I can get something from them to get legal aid, as I can't afford any advice. I have a solicitor I used previously to offer him contact in a centre but he never replied. She is £200+vat for some advice and a letter Shock crippling but I don't want to act without her.

Everything just seems a blur. Huge dark cloud hanging over our lives. We were all so happy without him.

2012PP · 05/11/2016 18:21

Virtual hand holding and 🍷🍸🍕💐

2012PP · 05/11/2016 18:23

I'm sure someone with more experience of these things will be along soon

2012PP · 05/11/2016 19:28

Anyone else watching strictly?

Froginapan · 05/11/2016 20:36

Sending chocolate, wine and a hand to everyone this evening.

If you've made it to a bonfire I hope you're having a good time.

Lilacpink40 · 05/11/2016 21:19

Ohb0llocks it's awful that you had to receive it Flowers but your ex may have done you a favour writing such explicit things as they are so negative towards you and also show him to be a bad parent (willing to manipulate DS). Make sure you save it on a backup device / memory stick.
He really sounds a king of twatness.

I went on date 2 today and there will be a date 3 (with same man as I cancelled other 2 men). He has insecurities but was honest about them. Made a change!

Dusters I'd definitely steer conversation to Mr HJ, but try to make it sound as though it's part of conversation someone else started. As though they've suddenly reminded you of him. Keep the gossips at bay! Wink

OP posts:
Lilacpink40 · 05/11/2016 21:22

2012 DCs will take Disney dad act as fun, but for real parenting security they'll look to you.

OP posts:
Lilacpink40 · 05/11/2016 21:29

green I'd go with purple and dusters idea of find out more, as you can't, unfortunately, expect him to listen to you. My DCs aren't happy with GF with their dad all the time. I told him, he said it's none of my business. He's right there's nothing I can do. I cyber stalked her and she's fairly normal but maybe bit needy (was FBing lots of men positive messages sametime as ex).

OP posts:
Ohb0llocks · 05/11/2016 21:29

Just got back from a bonfire with DS and DP. I say just, he's been flat out for about 20 minutes now despite the fireworks going off practically outside his window!

I've got all the texts/emailed saved and backed up. He said today he didn't want a contact centre he'd rather it was me and him... hmm I wonder why.

Also said he's not willing to pay to see his son it's 'not good for either of us', confusing.

I know it's a long road but honestly last time he got in touch I physically could not cope. I've not felt as bad this time, thank god and I can't help but think it's down to you guys and your support and advice and on my other thread too. I have support in real life but it's one of those that unless you've been through it you just don't know.

greencarbluecar · 05/11/2016 21:38

Well I found out more, let him know in a 'just so you know' kind of way, without any suggestion of making any changes etc, because I felt I owed it to DC and stupidly thought he might see an opportunity for quality time as a good thing. I've now been threatened pretty substantially with court, told I'm causing all this and him going for partial custody and all sorts.

Just another day in the life of being stuck with a WN then.

Stop the world. I've had enough and want to get off. I'll just wait until he gets off then get back on please.

greencarbluecar · 05/11/2016 21:39

oh I agree he's done you a favour. Record record record.

lilac third date sounds wonderful. Did you get proper food or was it just a coffee date?

Ohb0llocks · 05/11/2016 22:04

Green Flowers I know that feeling.

Lilac how exciting! Dating after being with a narc is so scary isn't it. I kissed a few frogs before finding my DP. We are now engaged. Everything was so perfect until he cropped his fucking head up.

Sounds like a trend though. Just as soon as things get good, they sense the lack of control and here we go again.

Silly as it sounds, I feel like stamping my feet and shouting this isn't bloody fair. I'm a young mum trying to do right by my son and create a future for him we never would have had with his 'dad'. Just seems there's always bloody something.

2012PP · 05/11/2016 22:18

Thanks LILAC- and a 3rd date sounds lovely. I hope he continues to be lovely.
I am in awe of the courage shown by the women on this thread. Dealing with threats, constant worry for safely of our kids, ourselves, second guessing things , keeping the peace, keep things moving forwards positively. And working, bringing up kids, along with dealing with w/n,
It's truly amazing 🌞.