support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh 2

[Lilacpink40]

Hope this works...

Hello friends I'm back.

Fuck the 'friends who spy' PURPLE is here and proud (or stupid).

Dusters thank you for your message.

Frog I am so happy for you. The truth comes out. More power to you. Keep strong.

I am not so strong at the moment, have skim read the thread and so sorry to hear everyone's crap. Same old.

WN (this feels a very polite name for him at the moment) has pretended to offer a solution out of court but actually compiled a fifth version of absolutely bullshit access proposals that are in no way workable and take the children's wishes or reality/good advice into no account at all. So after a brief moment where I actually thought he was going to do the right thing (I KNOW I am a complete idiot) we are back to square one, thousands of pounds wasted on solicitors and back to square one with Court now happening in the next few days.

I have never met such a delusional, deceitful, self centred, smiley fake salesman in my entire life. I don't know how I will spend time in the same room as him without throwing up.

And I continue to defend the lies, and I know, know, know it is a complete waste of my energy and I should just disengage, but when someone is prepared to the extent he is, involve police and social services and exWN no1 to elaborate on his lies I feel I have no choice but to respond.

It's alright, social services closed case with zero concerns, only police records worth mentioning are me calling them on him, and EXWN no1 is a lying twat who has made no effort with DS1 that has been positive in 10 years. BUT STILL, I am exhausted, feel so alone, I want to enjoy my time with my children but am so spun out from the shit all around me I am snappy and can't engage with them at all. I want to scream at them HE IS A WANKER WHO DOESN'T CARE ABOUT YOU, but of course I can't and I have to just bite my tongue and smIle at them when they talk about presents bought while he is trying to rip their lives, routines and home from under them. I don't even feel rage at the moment, too tired with it all. I missed you guys. You get it. No one else does.

I'm just not deserving of proper love. I think his statement is so wrong in every way, and I'd think that even if WN hadn't said it. I don't think (romantic) love is something anybody "deserves". I think children deserve to be loved by their parents, but I don't think that word applies otherwise. If it did who would decide who has earned the love they receive. What do you have to do/be/achieve to deserve love?

And "proper" love. I would see this as love that is respectful and kind, and has all those sorts of qualities. We don't choose who to fall in love with. And even if we have the "proper" love for them, it doesn't guarantee the right sort of love in return.

If the statement was true, it would only be true in reverse. You, greencar, are capable of proper love, you apply it to your dc and partner. But he, WN, is not capable of it. He has just been extremely fortunate, as have all the men on this thread, to meet women like us who can love properly. It hasn't worked out, not because you/we don't deserve proper love, but because we choose the wrong people to bestow it upon

If I think about all the women I know who have ended up with men like this, they are almost all kind, sensitive, caring, thoughtful. They are also probably a bit self-effacing, likely to put others first, dislike confrontation, like to see the best in others.

Hey Purple

Great to see you back, and still proudly Purple!

You sound like you're still in there, and fighting your corner, good for you.

I should imagine Hilary Clinton feels like throwing up when she has to stand next to Donald Trump. Fingers crossed she'll whip his sorry sexist botoxed arse next week, just like you with WN.

As you say, we all get it.

It's a scarily similar analogy dusters. We all know what Trump is but there is still a real possibility he could win because for some bizzare reason, some people have faith/believe him. That is exactly how Court feels. Daunting and utterly unpredictable. And even if you get the right result the WN won't stick to it anyway (never has) and there is bugger all you can do about that. The system is completely screwed.

What contact does everyone's children have with the WNs then?

I am scared to think what could happen if he gets DD unsupervised.

I'm scared to rock the boat my disagreeing with him and not letting him have his way. I feel like if I am nice and keep him happy then it won't turn nasty again.

Just found this thread, will have a read through soon.
I think we fit the bill anyway!
ExP is at the 'being a wonderful father to try and get me back' phase but he has been horrible to my DD1 one too many times and there is no chance of reconciliation.
Shame I have 2 other DC with the manipulative twat

Hello lovelilies, come on in plenty of support and understanding here.

Purple so good to see you. When I read this bit I have never met such a delusional, deceitful, self centred, smiley fake salesman in my entire life. I don't know how I will spend time in the same room as him without throwing up I genuinely wondered if we've had DC with the same man. You are not alone.

I also feel the need to respond, and yes oh not rocking the boat to avoid nastiness is just what I do, every day. It's how they get away with things, but what else can we do when we know what the consequences will be? is paralysing and it does feel that systems are not set up to help us. I feel like I have to let something awful happen before I can do anything to stop it. His rights apparently trump our wellbeing.

dusters I wish I knew you in real life. You've stayed so sane! I'm trying to remind myself that if he can do this, he doesn't deserve me. I'll go up and down and I don't know if I'll ever understand, but I will try to accept that it is him that is flawed, albeit in a different way to WN, not me. I have this feeling that I'm just not good enough, but I think we all know who that came from. Doubt I'll ever trust anyone again though, or not for a long time. Which is a shame because a good strong hug and listening ear can work such wonders.

So, the weekend again. Brace yourselves everyone, and remember our little network of hope and support is here.

I hope so greencar

Glad to see you back purple fuck that wanker, keep being strong

No contact right now Ohb he has been offered supervised contact but according to him if he comes to that he is 'breaking the court order' sucks for DD because she misses him and she asks him often to just come to a supervised visit so she can see him. I really hope I never have to give him unsupervised time again because he is so fucked up there is no knowing what he might do, and besides all that, he has no idea how to be a responsible parent, just fills her up with sweets, sets no boundaries or limits, and blames me when she can't handle it.

Apologies for my ignorance Purple but I just don't understand how a court can make a decision that is not then enforced/enforceable? Is it the case that it is, but it's just too much effort/time/expense, to return to try and enforce a ruling/judgement?

To answer your question Ohb. Our contact is agreed informally between us. Two evenings a week, one is a sleepover, then 50/50 each weekend. Extra/additional times I'm always open to, but dc seem less interested these days, and he's such a twat I'm not inclined to offer. My dc are quite a bit older than yours (but not teens).

As for rocking the boat etc. The theme coming from this thread is that you can't apply normal rules to these situations. These men aren't reasonable, you can't navigate around them. So it has to be what's best for the dc, clearly outlined, and you take it from there. I know it's really hard, you don't want to provoke them. But they think they're the victim already, you can't "win" with them.

Welcome lovelilies. Sorry you recognise your situation on this thread, but hope you find it as useful as we do.

Frog brilliant news

Nat love your DD showing a child can outsmart a WN!

Green we are all behind you shaking our heads at your ex. He doesn't want you to have the love that he knows you can have as you're not rotten like him. He's probably seen your body language change when he throws it in your face, so it's like a key he can keep to open your pain when he wants to. Padlock thst door and don't give him the satisfaction.

Dusters hope you've thought more on how to get more time with Mr heartjump. Even if nothing happens, it's something potentially very different and a change can be good.

Purple good you're ok, but is court still going on now or clear of it? as you say if WN ignores there's little that can be done sadly

OhB0llocks I felt like this for years..:scared to rock the boat my disagreeing with him and not letting him have his way. I feel like if I am nice and keep him happy then it won't turn nasty". The truth is that they'll be the way they are out of control so there won't be normal negotiation. As long as you're doing fair things for the right reasons you're ok. Keep yourself and DC first priority he really won't.

Hi lovelilies so you have a manipulative ex who acts like he's wonderful...yes you've found a good thread here. It's hard but we all vent here and give each other suggestions into how to handle the wanker narcs WNs.

Mine is currently sending me horrible texts and I'm just ignoring them. He's running out of obvious ways to twist me new GF will prob be getting his control. The longer I'm away from him, and less I have to face him, the more like my old self I feel. I think previous advice of avoid wherever possible does show signs of working.

Purple and green on the issue of WN being good salesman. My ex would have made a brilliant salesman, could easily coerce people around him to follow his suggestions.

No way to know, but wonder if statistically good salespeople have narc tendencies?

Bloody hell, Purple. Do we have the same pair of Ex WNs?

greencar thank you, that's a lovely thing to say. I think my (relative) sanity comes from several things. I had a good relationship with twat before our split. It was the year after our problems started and his subsequent behaviour that has been so awful. Also, despite the things that I have shared on this thread, he hasn't and isn't unkind to the dc. We've never been to court, no police involvement, so a lot less trauma.

Most of the fall out from our split has been felt by me and my close family. It's been life changing, and has changed me as a person. I realised I had to find a way to cope with it or go under. I was fortunate, great parents, good friends and neighbours, financial situation manageable, haven't had to move. I think all these things make a huge difference. So whilst I'm proud of myself to a certain extent, I also know I'm very fortunate.

I also learnt a lot from the aftermath of my EA relationship when I was a lot younger.

Like you I thought I'd never trust anyone again. I can feel that lessening slightly. What I think I can trust myself to do now is to walk away quicker. I will put my feelings first, not the other persons. Also, I'm far less worried about what others think. So if something doesn't work for me, so be it.

I thought you'd be out on one of your hot dates tonight Lilac ? Apologies if I've missed any updates.

I'm a bit stumped with Mr H J. I'm probably seeing the friends this weekend who told me about his relationship ending. I may have to weave him into the conversation, see how well they know him! Trouble is my community is so close knit (which is lovely) that you have to watch what you say. Everyone knows someone who knows the person you're talking about! It's fab if you love gossip but also a bit

dusters What I think I can trust myself to do now is to walk away quicker. I will put my feelings first, not the other persons this is what I need to do. I think I could, but with almost-ex there are reasons that make that much more difficult than walking away from e.g. someone met on pof a few months ago. And also that make the hurt so much deeper. Interestingly, although he doesn't behave at all like WN, I do have a sense of not being seen as a real person with feelings at times with this. I also spotted a tiny bit of gaslighting, although not sure it was deliberate. So he's not a full on WN, but can display some tendencies, and has made me feel that I'm not good enough through his behaviour when really, isn't that him? Not sure if that makes any sense, maybe there's a spectrum of WN-ness?

lilac mine (WN ex) has actually worked in sales. I'm sure he was very good at it. Smarm smarm smarm. His reaction when someone fails to fall for the act is to cut them dead, he doesn't pursue it if it's not working. So he knows exactly what he's doing. Suspect you may be right about salespeople and narc tendencies. Not saying all salespeople are like that, but I'd be useless at it.

dusters I know what you mean. Tricky when people are so connected, but also useful for info! Can you mention him in context of the work you 'need' doing, and then let the gossips do their work?

What are you stumped about (if it's not too outing)?

Greencar D'you think that making people feel not good enough is itself such a horrible thing to do? I think it is. We all have to accept that sometimes people's feelings for another person just change. Sometimes things just don't work out. But there's no need to make another person feel not good enough. To me that's cruel, and definitely says more about the other person. It sounds like you have quite a connection with almost-ex. So given that, if he's made you feel that way, he really doesn't deserve you.

As for Mr H J. Yes, I think I could mention the work I might need doing, then they can tell me what he's like in a work context, which would be useful. As for being stumped, this was really in relation to actually seeing him again. He hasn't been around as per normal work wise. He lives very near, and I sometimes drive past him, but that's it. It's like having some sweets you really want to try in the shop window, but the shops always shut and you don't know the opening hours !!!

Basically dusters by the end of this Court shit (please God let there be an end) you just have a piece of paper with an access agreement. Probably c£5000 spent in solicitors fees and barristers. You know what these WN's are like - control, control, control. So it is unlikely to change - late pick ups, changed arrangements, bullshit excuses about unavoidable work or illness etc etc. Your only option is to threaten, and then eventually return to court. Another few £1000's in costs. A court can offer a non- contact order but I think that only happens in very serious cases of abuse or violence. Emotional Abuse/game playing/lying/letting the kids down etc not a serious concern. Social services equally just not interested. A young girl I know last week (now a single mum) called social services because she was concerned that her DD who is about 2, when seeing EX wasn't fed properly, not changed, left outside in cold while he played football etc. All they advised was to withhold access and if he had a problem with that he would have to take her to Court! And then that whole process would start as above...

It is just a circle, and in my experience the men lose interest in the children anyway when they meet someone new, the mum's are the ones left picking up the pieces of the upset children (sorry about male/female generalisation but I haven't seen it the other way round) and you are just so worn out with the arguments, doing all the childcare, struggling financially etc that you just have to lump it. Going back to court is just going to give you the same bit of paper that they won't adhere to and your life with be dominated with this constant anxiety and upset and of course financial strain.

Sorry to sound so negative. It absolutely drives me mental that nowhere in this process are the children put first. Their mother is emotionally destroyed with it all and the kids lose out all ways round.

You don't sound negative greencar, just realistic and battle weary, and why wouldn't you be. I wonder if there are organisations working on reform of this whole shoddy mess? Sorry to sound sexist but if men were left in the position described above, I think there'd be a bit more movement in the way of reform. Don't see any of these self funding MP's standing to campaign on these issues, but then they're usually men. Grrrrr.....

dusters Yes you have it. There is a strong connection and backstory, and although he'd never tell me I wasn't good enough (unlike WN) in words, his actions have done that instead. It's the way this is happening that's hurt so much. I keep trying to remember that he's not WN and be understanding, but then I go back round in circles wondering if that's low standards due to WN's conditioning. He has a lot to answer for. So here I am, not trusting my own judgement, and yes, feeling that I'm not good enough and trying not to think of all the things WN said and did which would make me believe this is my fault.

Sounds like a good plan with HJ man. Maybe they can recommend his services and then you have a genuine reason to contact him? Keep us updated?

purple that's my impression of the court system too. It's women and children who suffer so nothing gets done. WNs just do what they want.

Apologies. The comment that you don't sound negative should have been to Purple not Greencar - colour blindness

Will keep you posted on Mr HJ !

Hi
I cant get my head around my ex still 2 yrs on - I did literally everything for him and maybe that was my downfall? but in the last few years of us being together (just after we married actually) he put in no effort at all and I honestly believe that was the end for us, I did things I shouldn't have but I ended it because I believed it was the right thing to do.
Ex was nasty and horrible for a year after and I couldn't approach him or even speak to him I tried to fix things but he wasn't interested.. I tried to be amicable with him lots of times but he just took the piss. Then he met now gf and has integrated her into my 'old space' with all our friends and even took her on holiday to where we used to go!!
Ive asked him if its serious with her but he evades the question (I know he doesn't have to tell me)
Now hes trying to be nicey nicey Disney dad with her who has no idea about kids, he missed a weekend due to 'working' so he wanted DD this weekend I said No as Ive made plans for fireworks, then he texts me again asking if I'm doing something both nights! I said yes thanks I am! I don't hassle him at a weekend when he has DD - although the last time he had DD he left her at friends house while he went drinking with his gf how is that spending quality time with her?
I sent him a photo of DD as she was away this week with school he just replied with 'cool' ... ffs why do I bother?
Sorry for the rubbish times everyones going through..

I was a salesperson but I really don't think I'm narc...probably why I just got made redundant as I wasn't very good lol

Sorry to hear about your redundancy messedup, do you have something else lined up?

Good to see you didn't rearrange your weekend just to fit in with him. I don't bother at all anymore to include him. Just got dc's school photos to order. If he wants one he can contact the school. I told him about the website months ago etc, he can't be bothered, so he'll have to miss out.

Same for up coming xmas stuff at the school. If he can't sort it then tough. The dc don't really care if he comes or not. They see him regularly and know he's not good at changing his routine, so it's no big deal to them.

I remember your post about your ex and gf leaving the dc to go out drinking, pretty low.

Just checking in and wishing those who have handovers today a peaceful one

I'm going to the big fireworks display in town with a flask of mulled wine and new man knowing that my 3yo DD will be there somewhere watching the same display as me but not with me :( I've had a full on week of college, assignments, studying, work placement, she's been doing ten hour days at nursery, we've barely seen each other, I'm tired and I shall probably cry at the fireworks display

He's refusing to reply/acknowledge emails again, very frustrating, he will reply to texts no bother, but I find texting diffcult when it's a big long thing (this was about night dryness, they won't put her in a pull up and she's stressing in the week now about accidents every bed time :/) and other stuff about Xmas - said at drop off last night oh I wanted to talk to you first that's why I haven't replied - yes well in mediation we agreed no verbal communication other than niceties and emergency stuff. Sick of it, it's all control isn't it, down to every last little isnignificant thing.

Anyway - re previous posters (forgotten who!) question about contact - I only have 1 weekend out of the month. This was agreed initially as I was working weekendsso it had to be that way, but I haven't for a year now and it's still like this, he did agree at mediation that if I returned to work ft or she went to school ft that we would go eow, but I doubt he would see studying as counting for that.