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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh 2

954 replies

Lilacpink40 · 18/10/2016 18:14

Hope this works...

OP posts:
Natsku · 03/11/2016 11:17

Not sure I'm much of a rescuer. I did try to rescue ex but only at his insistence and it pissed me off after a while.

And what a surprise - my lawyer just found out that my ex no longer has a lawyer... wonder if the lawyer quit on him or if he sacked him just so he could argue with my lawyer directly, either way he's pretty much screwed now.

Froginapan · 03/11/2016 11:20

The problem with covert narcs is that their victims are the proverbial Frog (hence my user name) and by the time you realise what is going on you're so enmeshed that you cannot truly see the wood for the trees

nicenewdusters · 03/11/2016 11:38

Oh Nats - so your ex might fancy himself as Judge Rinder ?!! Must be every courts nightmare, a self-representing delusional ex. D'you think he'll grow his beard back to make himself look more intelligent and thoughtful? Wink

Excellent song first thing in the car this morning, Queen, "Somebody to Love" !! Thought of you Frog, and especially those dating at the moment.

There's a slight chance I might see Mr Heart Jump this afternoon. Not getting my hopes up, will report back.

Speaking to a friend's husband this morning. Just a really nice, normal, guy, very happily married to my lovely friend. I may steal a strand of his hair, clone him and put the clones on Ebay! You can all have first refusal, plus a 10% WN discount. People like him restore my faith in men!

Natsku · 03/11/2016 12:07

Ooo cloned nice husband!!

I'd love it if he'd grow his beard back, would be hilarious. My lawyer called him and told him that he needs to pay for DD's phone that he "lost" and he claimed to "have no observation of the phone at all" (whatever that means) and when my lawyer suggested that maybe he hadn't been supervising DD properly then he got angry and yelled at her and hung up. Hope he tries yelling in court!

Froginapan · 03/11/2016 12:25

Such a Prince, Natsku. Fingers crossed he loses his cool in court.

Natsku · 03/11/2016 12:50

I am looking forward to his phone call tonight to hear him rant about my lawyer Grin He was trying to explain to DD what a lawyer is last night and so I interrupted and told him she's only 5 and doesn't need to know about adult things like that but he just kept insisting that she must know every sordid detail about why he can't see her (but only his opinion of course, not the actual facts)

Fidelia · 03/11/2016 13:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Natsku · 03/11/2016 14:01

I'm recording all phone calls and I tell DD's social worker about it every other week when she visits and she then informs the child protection workers.

I just listened to a recording from a call I hadn't overheard and he was telling DD that I'm lying to her and that I'm breaking the law and stopping her from seeing him. Sick sick man.

nicenewdusters · 03/11/2016 14:45

"to have no observation of the phone at all" Confused

Amongst my family, to take the sting out of the situation, we have a couple of phrases from Twat and his family that we now use. Can't say them as they might be outing. I think your ex's one above could fall into that category.

Mr Natsku: Have you seen where I left my keys?

Mrs Natsku: No, no observation of the keys at all.

No Mr Heart Jump today, bit of a heart sink.

ohforfoxsake · 03/11/2016 14:56

Hello everyone.

I'm wrung out. I feel like I have been crying for hours (I haven't) and if I did start, I wouldn't stop.

Can I ask you all a question? I genuinely would value your opinions, whether you agree or not. I'm conflicted.

What are your feelings on acceptance? That is accepting the XPs as the damaged individuals that they are? Accepting that they do not have the capacity to change, for empathy, to think in terms of others. As if to see them as damaged individuals who suffer because they cannot handle the qualities we have, and because they cannot be like us, they seek to destroy us. Those qualities that drew them to us in the first place, are the qualities they mock, destroy. Do you think you could ever, ever accept that this is how they are, and you simply have to make peace with that?

The reason I am asking - I spent yesterday in the company of my oldest, dearest friends. They are worldly and wise, and I love them, and they love me. They see me for the infinitely capable woman I am and have done for decades.

They also see me in pain, hurt and bitter. They don't want this. One is a counsellor (it was an uninvited, but well intentioned show of love on their part, but the evening was a bit of a counselling session and it has left me reeling).

I do think XH is incapable of the qualities which I consider basic human qualities, that we should show each other without questions (kindness, generosity of spirit, joy). I pity him. But I can't ignore the abuse and damage, the hurt and the pain he showered on me for years. I dont WANT to accept it, to roll over and say 'the damage you did doesn't matter'. (It absolutely does fucking matter with all my heart). But (unreasonably) I don't want the children to love him because he doesn't fucking deserve it. (That's not something I would say outloud, and I know its wrong and beyond my control.)

I need to heal. If any of us had already accepted them for the people they are, none of us would be contributing to this thread. But this thread has made me think. Every day when I read it, it makes me think. I'm now contacting counsellors in a bid to move forward.

Is acceptance the way? What do you think?

nicenewdusters · 03/11/2016 15:05

OhFor I'm just off out, but wanted to say I had read your post and will be back later. Your friends sound lovely, so glad you have them. It's tricky when someone close to you is a counsellor. Quite rightly, ethically, they cannot enter into the counselling relationship with you. But seeing what you are going through they must have felt desperate to help in some way. The process is challenging though, and stirs up so much, hence the professional boundaries etc.

donners312 · 03/11/2016 15:27

forfoxsake - your counselor friend is right, we do have to accept it/them and forgive them to move forward. I do accept anger is a poison that only poisons me etc.

but how to genuinely forgive? I will never speak to my ex again i know that and like you i don't want the children to love them as he has tried to destroy them and given them nothing. how to forgive it though?

BeccaAnn · 03/11/2016 15:36

I cry, rant at mum, and try to show my DS that living with me is just as fun

Froginapan · 03/11/2016 15:40

I think acceptance is the only path away from madness. How we get there is difficult.

I'm struggling with the exact same thing - 9 months of agonising and going over and over things and my heart simply cannot accept that the man I loved wasn't real, he simply didn't exist.

It's a very individual journey - I just wish I could hurry on up to the destination.

ohforfoxsake · 03/11/2016 15:50

This popped up on my FB.

I read it and it rang true. Its about gaslighting as an abuse tactic. Makes an interesting and familiar read.

everydayfeminism.com/2015/08/things-wish-known-gaslighting/

Chucklecheeks · 03/11/2016 16:25

I'm probably going to out myself but it's my 40th birthday today. Exactly a year to the day I found out cockwomble was cheating. In another two weeks it will be a year to the day I found out I has an STI (he still doesn't know).

In three weeks it will be a year from when he refused any contact from me because me contacting him and asking him if he was going to pay the mortgage, begging him not to introduce his OW to the kids yet and general panic was stressing him and his OW out. She told him if I could contact him he had to leave her house.

Jesus what a year, is it possible to feel invincible but so vulnerable and raw at the same time. I'm annoyed he is ruining my birthday by it being this day.

Froginapan · 03/11/2016 16:38

Fox - I've read so many articles to try to make sense of what happened to me but that one you just posted has hit the nail on the proverbial head

Homely1 · 03/11/2016 17:04

I'm so gutted that I asked ex to DC birthday party .... I thought I had to

nicenewdusters · 03/11/2016 17:36

Just to add my thoughts in to the mix "OhFor".

I would say that acceptance is "a" way, not necessarily "the" way. If it's put to you as an absolute then that puts pressure on you to make certain choices. But nobody else has lived your life. Only you know what you can accept and what you can forgive.

Also what does acceptance mean in this context? Is it a realisation, or a coming to terms, or saying that something is ok. I accept the fact of what my ex has done. I can accept some of the reasons as to why he may have acted as he did. But can I honestly say I accept it, as the actions of a flawed human being, just as I am flawed?

I think it may be possible to accept but not to forgive. I've reached a certain level of acceptance by looking at things logically. The motives of him, and others, I accept I'll never understand. This gives me a certain peace because I'm no longer looking for answers.

Holding onto the anger can be very corrosive. I choose anger some days over sadness because it gives me more energy, more motivation. But ultimately it makes me feel worse. I wrote to my ex some months ago to say I didn't hold grudges, just wanted the best for us all, and hoped in the future we could try and parent together. He never even acknowledged it. I didn't feel angry, just sad.

I personally don't feel the need to forgive. What's done is done. What I have observed him and others do is unforgiveable - by me at least. I don't think this is me holding on to my anger. For me it's a form of acceptance. You have done this thing to me, I will not say it's ok, but I choose to move on.

I saw an interview once with the bereaved parent of a child. It's an infamous case. The parent was consumed with hatred and rage, and it was destroying his life. The interviewer (a monk) asked him what would happen if he let go of his anger. The man became distraught. He thought about it and said it meant he was letting his child down. He needed the anger to carry on.

I know we're talking about a different situation, but I wonder if we can't/don't accept and/or forgive because of what that would mean for us? I don't think accepting something means it was ok. I think it means you know it wasn't ok, but you can look it straight in the eye, see it clearly, and move away from it. No excuses, no reframing, just maybe a cold, hard acceptance.

nicenewdusters · 03/11/2016 18:24

Chuckle - wow, that is indeed quite a year.

But for today.... Flowers Flowers Flowers and Cake

ohforfoxsake · 03/11/2016 19:11

Yes Dusters, I think that's it - if we accept their behaviour are we saying their treatment of us is acceptable?

I struggle with forgiveness. Which has blocked my way to acceptance.

yes to a hard acceptance without forgiveness. That's where I think I personally need to be.

But, I am not so reasonable that I don't want to lash out, that I don't want to make him see the damage he did to me and our family. I want him to understand and show remorse because to not is to not value it. And it's the most valuable thing in the world.

But none of this is ever going to happen. I want to punish him, I want to shake him, I want him to cry and scream and be the one who carries this around and tries to repair their damaged selves and have counselling because he needs to heal. All whilst working, running the home, loving the children, getting them to football, picking them up from shows at 10pm, fixing the shower head, making ends meet and going to the tip. I want him to tell his new partner he's been tested for chlymedia and why.

For one day I want him to feel this. Then maybe I could accept that he will never be an honest person capable of love with any capacity for kindness.

ohforfoxsake · 03/11/2016 19:39

Chuckle, birthdays will get better. Wishing you a happy birthday, and it's another year away, that's whole year you've distanced yourself from it.

Whatever you need to do, do it. Wallow, sing Gloria Gaynor, kick up your heels. This time next year you will be further away from it again. There's got to be something in this 'time being a healer' line.

ohforfoxsake · 03/11/2016 19:40

Homely,
Nope. He can have his own celebration.

Hope you are ok.

Homely1 · 03/11/2016 19:43

Thing is, I've asked him but now

Chucklecheeks · 03/11/2016 19:43

I didn't think it could get worse.

My five year old DS broke tonight when we had just got to the restaurant. He wouldnt get out of car and kept saying he wished he was dead. He doesn't know why he is sad but no one loves him and he would be better dead.

I've left DD with my dad and brother so she can eat and brought DS home.

After lots of sobbing he admitted he feels so angry but doesn't know why. He then sobbed again as he thinks he spoilt my birthday.

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