support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh 2

[Lilacpink40]

Hope this works...

Green - I wish I could lift it for you.

Thank you frog xx

greencar it sounds like you can't do anything to change the situation today. As you say, just hope he comes back when he's said he will.

What I'm about to say might sound childish and irresponsible. What if you were to turn the tables on him from now on? Not to the detriment of the dc, but be as vague as him. Sod it, if he says he's coming at x, you say no it has to be y, then you go out and come back at the time you said. If he's waiting outside at "his" time, good.

What is actually the worst that can happen? Apologies for not being able to remember the details of your contact, eg court ordered, but within the confines of your agreement what is the worst case scenario? He'll tell his "friends and family" how awful you are - well he does that already. He'll say bad things to the kids. I guess he also does that already. I bet they already sense how he mucks you around. Really, if you behave like him, what can he actually DO - not say, imply, threaten - but put into action?

Lilac don't beat yourself up with hindsight. All your trust will have come from a good place. He's the liar. His life is the tissue of lies, he knew it then and he knows it now with hindsight. Your hindsight exposes only his failings and your strength of character to try and keep your relationship and family together.

Frog I'm envious of your roast, that would be an entry in the Great British Bake Off final in my house at the moment! Am trying to resist the temptation to eat the Halloween trick or treat sweets at the moment. Made a couple of raids last night (I'll blame the munchies). Will have to empty everything into one bag before the dc get back or else they'll rumble me !!

Greencar I rarely disagree with dusters but on this occasion I may ... just wondered if another approach was better and may piss him off more without putting the children in more shit situations. How about next time replying something like 'oh brilliant, that will give me the opportunity to do X, thank you.' And follow that path for a while. Would he not get more pissed off that he has actually helped you out ? That might put him off doing it more. Also if the time to drop off is made earlier just apologise and say that you are out? Worth a try?

Frog you sound much more like your old self and back in the driving seat. So good to hear. V jealous of the Sunday roast, have a lovely one

That's a good point Purple, my suggestion could well back fire. So hard to know what might give somebody back some control.

Frog I'd love that roast too, I'm in SW so be a drive! cutting corners is ok anyday

Dusters thanks you're right, he knows what he's done and the fact he's been awful and not remorseful shows his flaws. I just wanted the best for my family.

On a chocolate note, I don't count mini-chocolates in trick and treat bags as calories...they just go down easily 😀 Before next dates I'll have some in case I'm left starving again. Although I'm going on coffee only dates so easier to escape!

Green if only there was a magic mirror to reflect that weight onto the person who caused it. I'd send it your way if I had it.

A mirror would go well with Dungs WN repellent. (Think it was Dungs idea, and may want to keep the copright for Dragons Den as would be in demand).

Dusters and purple, I'm reading your ideas for frog with interest and expect fox will too. It's hard when ex controls timings.

One of my upcoming dates will coincide with ex dropping DCs back after a club. It means I'll have either one and a half hours or two and a half hours for coffee after work. As sometimes he pops into his Mums with them. I'm trying to think if its easier to just go with 1.5hr as first date, but I may enjoy it then don't have flexibility to stay out.

I was tempted to start stocking up on Christmas chocolates today when I was out, but I can't trust myself - they'll probably be gone by Bonfire Night!

Also, not wanting to think about Christmas just yet. We're doing the same as last year but in reverse. So Dcs with him evening of 24th, all day 25th, back to me morning of 26th . Some of that time they'll be with his family, including vile ex FIL, and possibly two of my relatives who I'm now nc with (all connected with the split). I can't really allow myself to think about it.

Thank you all for your support and suggestions. I have so much to do today but feel too drained to face much of it.

dusters now you mention it, others have suggested playing him at his own game. It's tempting and while I have one instinct that says do it, he doesn't care about anyone but himself, another part of me knows that to do so could ultimately visit more punishment on me (us). I've seen what he's capable of and I suspect there is more lurking beneath. I think it's another one of those situations that if a normal rational person was involved, could be dealt with by showing them how it feels, but these delightful men seem to be incapable of seeing us as humans.

purple I'm having some think time about your 'it'll give me chance to do x' idea to work out what his most likely reaction will be. I was trying to do grey rock, but not sure I've been successful anyway so maybe it's worth a go. I seem to live my life to avoid bad reactions from him, but again there are two sides. On one, I don't want to be controlled by him. On the other, I know his anger and don't want to be the target of it (and I am his juiciest target).

lilac I love the idea of the mirror. I'd get lots of small ones on my clothes to reflect it back at him lots of times. Maybe not just a spray to go with it. Narc repellent perfume?

If you've got the choice for the date, could you initially go for the 1.5 hours, and keep the last hour flexible (sorry if I'm misunderstanding the set up). You either get an hour to yourself to eat chocolate do something nice but not essential if it's not a good one, or the option to stay a bit longer if it is. Not sure how you explain that to the date though without saying what you're doing! Actually I'm not so hot with the whole dating shebang, you might want to take my suggestions as examples of how not to do it...

dusters what will you be doing for Xmas while they're with him, do you have a decent chance of staying distracted? I expect a lot of us will be struggling with that time, I know I'm dreading it already, so at least we can all hand hold each other through it as best we can.

fox I meant to say thank you for (along with pinpointing the pathetic motives of the WN) that skinny jeans thought earlier. The image alone is a little ray of light in all this

It's a tricky one this year greencar. At the risk of sounding like a do-gooder, if I had a completely free choice I would volunteer to help at Shelter, Crisis at Christmas, or the local equivalent. Up until a couple of years ago I had the traditional big, noisy, family (plus extended family) christmas. I loved it.

Part of my extended family has been torn apart from the events associated with my split. In the last few weeks it's also affected my immediate family. I will therefore be spending it with my parents. It's going to be very difficult for them, so I wouldn't dream of not being around. I'm just trying to accept that it'll be horrible, but that it's only 2 days. I will enjoy the run up, and from Boxing Day onwards. For me that will be Christmas.

Well, there's no law (there isn't, is there?) that says your Christmas has to be those two exact days. A bit like celebrating your birthday at the weekend when it's on a Wednesday.

These men. Causing all these ripples that affect all these people and all they care about is themselves.

I like that idea greencar, I'll pretend I'm the Queen, she has two birthdays!

I've booked a little break for me and the dc just before xmas, in my mind that'll be my xmas with them.

I'm worried that twat won't do all the traditional things that my dc have become used to, like the stockings etc. But I'm not going to help him. I'll give my dc's their (empty) stockings, and other xmas bits they always have around, to take to his house. If I do it a couple of weeks before it should give him the chance to get his arse in gear - he'll probably ask his mum to do it !!

I know they'll be safe and happy, and I'll survive. Just one of those things.

Luckily DD won't be going to ex's for Christmas but the one year she did we just had our Christmas a week early - made it into a proper Christmas with the meal and stockings and we got a local old man to dress up as Father Christmas and he came round with DD's presents to give to her (so in that sense celebrating Christmas on a different date worked out much better because those old men dressed up are in high demand on actual Christmas!)

Very jealous of the roast dinner! We went out for dinner because a restaurant owed OH a free dinner for some reason and it was tasty but can't beat a good old roast - one of the things I miss so much from the UK.

Just typing that last post made me think of that famous saying:

Give me the strength to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

That sounds like something we could do Natsku, could maybe do it Xmas eve during the day.

Dusters last year I told WN from about October that I wanted to help a local refugee place on Xmas day and he could have DCs. He refused to comment. Completely refused to discuss. Even on Xmas eve I was still offering. Of course it meant I couldn't do it and he then slagged me off to all and sundry that I had stopped him seeing the DCs on Xmas day. (He texted me st 3pm on Xmas day saying he wanted to see them after refusing to discuss for weeks). At that point I told him no and to stop messing us about.

Good luck all at handover tonight. I'm dreading it.

What an utterly pointless and mean thing to do purple. Glad you told him "no". That really is cutting off your nose to spite your face, turning down the chance to have your Dc at Xmas just to spite your ex. I hope he gets brussel sprout poisoning this year.

I've decided to definitely go grey rock from now on. I was fully justified in everything I said to twat in the texts recently. But I don't like how it makes me feel. He's an easy target, it's like shooting fish in a barrel, so ultimately unsatisfying. It could make me very bitter, and I'm not going down that road.

Yes, good luck with handovers, I'm intrigued as to how my dc got along.

My turn for xmas this year, and I cannot wait! She's 3 now so understanding a lot more and will be very excited :) I let them have her last year as his mum works alternate xmases and it was her year off (although it appears
she went in anyway but not my problem)
Handover was a weird one, his folks brought her back. I knew that he was away Friday somewhere, but hes still on holiday and not seen her at all. She could have stayed at home :/

Oh foof still, you have her back now and a lovely Xmas to look forward to.

My turn next, I hope. Stomach is in knots. I keep telling myself he wouldn't bother with the hassle, but not sure I'm convinced.

I love the thought though that we've got our little network of hope spread out around the continent (to include you Nat of course), all helping each other through the handover hell.

Glad you've got xmas this year foof, 3 is a magical age.

I love your phrase greencar "our little network of hope". When I realised you were definitely not in the UK Natsku (which I'd guessed might be the case) I thought what a shame, you're not near to us. But then I remembered we're all connected on the internet, so it doesn't matter where we are. Technology and geography never were my strong points

Hi everyone. So much to catch up on -

• frog- so glad you're hanging on in here & that your gp has been proactive.even if it's a long wait.

A lovely Sunday roast sounds delicious. With crispy roasties, and gravy.mmmmmm .

I hope all hand overs happened today without incident even more crap than normally have to deal with .

I'm dreading next week - X is back. This week has been calm. I wish I Could just sit back & enjoy without the knot in my stomach of "oh shit, this is not going to last" and xyz is going to start up again - for a week then X is away again then i don't know .

I know from reading your posts that my situation is not nearly As bad/stressful as most of you - I still really value being able to vent on here knowing that others understand - so thanks.

I have DC. My, that was stressful. And it sounds like he's been coming out with more manipulative gems, but for now I'll just take being returned on time as a positive.

I see us all as little points of light on a map (imagined, as I don't really know where you all are!) connected by the threads of the internet sending hope, support and understanding to each other.

I haven't been on the I promise, but I did feel strangely reassured tonight just hearing you all say handover was coming up for you too. Like we were all quietly preparing together.

dusters are your DC back yet? If so how did they get on?

Hello again
Chloe I too have only one friend who seems unable to believe that "lovely twuntface" can really be unreasonable/mean/controlling/thick as two short planks - "as he's just so saaaad without you!"
Grrrrr.
Clearly this is way more about her than me. I'm fairly sure that if she admitted that he was wrong to call me a fckin cnt, throw things, yell at the children & set the weather every bloody minute, she'd have to start looking at how her DH behaved in their marriage...

What a lovely vision green