support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh 2

[Lilacpink40]

Hope this works...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/2750843-Dds-grandparents-have-crossed-the-line-Havent-they

Hope this works, never linked to a thread before.

Her gran's behaviour is very inappropriate towards a child

Oh duck your poor DD, that's terrible. Can you block her gran from texting her? She shouldn't have to read that crap.

Yes I have now blocked her.

Does anyone else feel as though they are somehow still under their spell, even though they are now an ex? Not in a "have feelings for" way, but like you are still controlled to an extent?
I left my ex 8 years ago, married to an amazing man now but still feel as though what ex and his family think of me is important?
I too am in counselling now. I had cbt when I finally got away from my ex and believed I had dealt with all these issues but what has happened with dd has brought everything back.
I felt like the most useless, ugly person alive when I was with him. His parents are hugely narc too and they absolutely added to it. The dad was an abuser - he hit his wife, kids and their dog. My ex grew up to be an abuser in every sense of the word. While I grew up in borderline poverty, ex and family were very comfortable financially and never missed an opportunity to remind me that I was lucky to join their family.
They live double lives. Behind closed doors there is a tension in the air at all times, and when it snaps it is awful. To everyone else, they are a model family. They all have great careers, large homes in affluent areas etc etc.
They dragged my name right through the mud when I left him and I can only imagine what they are telling people now. Ex gave an entire "no comment" statement to the police when he was arrested
Dd seems strong on the surface but she is struggling.

For all their money and fancy houses duck you've achieved something they never have or ever will. You've walked away from him, and broken the chain of abuse. You don't live like that anymore, and your dd doesn't either.

All the money and "respectability" in the world can't buy them contact with your dd, and they don't deserve it. It also can't stop you from knowing the reality of their lives.

Just read in your thread the part where you told your ex's parents about the line of abuse going back through generations in their family. You stated that you thought you'd crossed a line. I inwardly cheered when I read that, that was so brave and so justified. All this crap festers in darkness, it should be exposed.

Of course they'll never admit that their son is in the wrong, that he's a violent bully. To do so would cause their own world to fall apart. They'll have to acknowledge the violence they've suffered, caused and enabled.

You're much stronger than them. I hope the counselling you're having will enable you to pull away from feeling controlled by them.

Oh duck that sounds so horrid. You're very strong . Sorry if I missed it- but does your Dd have to see grandparents?

mine live in different country so no regular contact- until X wants to take Ds away/abroad- it's not happened yet . Am dreading it.

I read an interesting thing (if I find the link I'll post) helping kids feel in control of their situation/life - we use it the day after Ds comes back from X
And it really helps him /his emotions/our connection/his behaviour/etc.

He has time where "he's in-charge". We decide when & put a timer on (half hour/hour etc...) & he gets to say what we do. The only real rule is that I say no if it's dangerous.
Generally he chooses to play games & dictate them. Cards, superheroes, it was monopoly last time .Today he's decided on playing Lego and making stuff, and he asks me to not be on the computer
mumsnet or be on the phone .
Today we are going to try a morning of him "in-charge" and see how it goes. I think he was excited about it as woke up at 6 asking if it was "his time" yet????? 😄

That sounds amazing 2012
What a great idea. Please hunt the link if you can.

Welcome Duck. I just recently got here and everyone is fab. Will read your other thread.

I had a friend for tea last night so missed the chat, but wow Nat on the floor. Lol Green on the Quality St (half price Belgium chocs in Marks were scoffed here).

Dusters I love the slightly distracting feeling of finding yourself attracted to a man. Enjoy it.

Homely don't feel bad. I swear we can feel guiltily if they don't have overnights and bad if they do.

So DC went to WN after clubs at 13.00 yesterday. DD crumpled. Didn't want to go or stay. Said just message me and I'll come get you.

DS announced loudly he's staying till Monday - fine. Except WN starts blustering oh he's too pale from being ill he needs to be at home. Meanwhile DD is crying. (He can't ever just commit, so hence bluster ).

So later I get a text they are both staying till Monday and DD is really happy. Hmmmmm. Sure they'll be lots of Disney and manipulation to have changed the situation.

The bit I hate too is waiting for them to come home, knowing there will be shitty behaviour. And an oddness about them. Takes a day or so to leave them and the house. Like a bad smell.

Oh duck, you and your dd really are going through the mill. It is so bloody hard to stand up to these types of people - but you ARE doing it. You' s protected your DD, you've got both of you into counselling. Those are positive steps.

Duck you've definitely joined a good thread to post on. The narc behaviour does appear to be taught by parents. My exMIL told me within days of ex ending our family through an affair that "I just hope he's ok in the end then this won't matter". She seriously thought I'd agree that he, and he alone, should be the priority. The best thing he ever did was have an affair as thankfully it was the wrecking ball to smash up a controlled relationship. I avoid ex now as, like you, still get a sense that he could try to be in control. It's like the 'jedi force' in StarWars or some other mind-manipulation.

Dung I also get extreme behaviour when DCs come home. Often it's shouting excitement, followed by them fighting / crying, moodiness, then I hear their worries, then exhaustion. It's draining for them isn't it?

Dusters and I can't see previous page but think 2012 or Nat asked for dating update...I will do later. No red flags through lots of texting, normal feelings about his DC and calm about ex. Physical attraction isn't there on photos but humour does a lot for me so I'll see. Getting nervous.

FFS just tried to post and it's losing them AGAIN! Will try to remember what I said and hopefully it won't be an accidental double post...

duck something that stands out to me reading your thread is that your DD knew to keep herself away from her dad when he turned up at GPs house. It's positive that she managed to do that within a horrible manipulative situation and you must have given her the tools to understand that she has that right. You've done the right thing, and also with stopping contact at their house to protect her from further risk. I know I'd want to stop contact altogether. It does seem to be a running theme, like lilac when I left ex all his mother was interested in was him being happy.

lilac and dung same with the behaviour on return, I'd love to find an effective way to help it. The giving them control idea sounds promising, does anyone know what ages it's aimed at?

lilac I definitely want an update! Some people are much more attractive in real life than photos so fingers crossed, it all sounds positive so far.

Green I will update . I mentioned some of ex's behaviour when we told each other why we're single and straight away he said that it sounded as if ex had never fully grown up. This has been mentioned before - the narc stops emotionally developing as a child at a selfish stage. I think there's some truth in this.

Good luck lilac. Worst case scenario, you have a nice lunch/drink, bit of a laugh, no harm done.

I just did a cartoon eyes-out-on-stalks reading what your exMIL said. I had to read it twice, just speechless....!

Sorry your dd struggled yesterday dung. Even though it's Disney bollocks I hope it makes their time with him easier for them. That smell in the house, you need "Narc Away!", available at all good retailers

Would love to see that link too 2012.

I think there's some truth in it too lilac, when I look back on ex's behaviour a good chunk of it reminds me of a child having a tantrum. But a huge, strong, powerful and controlling one. He always loved to tell me I was childish, and many of the other things he accused me of were his own negative traits, so I think that was him projecting too.

Will be waiting for that update!

I also cope with the Disney dad shit by thinking that at least when hes doing that they're not being ignored (even if it's other people doing the hard work in reality). Kids aren't stupid, they'll know the fake from the real. Even if it's not until they look back in 10/15/20 years time.

Groaaaaaaan
I just failed spectacularly at not letting him get to me.

Staying till Monday? No. txt at 11.38 bringing them home now.

I tried to have a co parent conversation at the door..... could he take DD to her club on 12 Nov.
I'll have to think about it.
Why? I'm giving you plenty of notice.
We might have plans. I have to consider OW son.
I showed him DD club output (creative club). He fucking shrugged.

He then says can we switch weekends for our birthdays (week apart!).

I say shall I write the dates down for you? No, bluster bluster bluster. I'll reply to an email when I'm ready.

He says I'm picking them up Tues from the childminder. You need to pay the childminder in that case says I (ongoing argument).

Slammed door on him. FAIL! He would have walked off smiling.

BUT inspired by this thread I then told DC that he was rude and horrible to me and that normal people don't talk to other people like that.
Normal people say sure I'll check my diary and let you know.
I didn't tell them their DF prioritises OW son over them. Hopefully they can figure that out.

And DD wanted to come home today so he lied yesterday on his txt.

And DD does not want to go to his on Tues. so he lied to my face and made her say in front of him she does want to go.

First words out her mouth once he's gone??? I'm not going on Tues.

I told her he makes me feel horrible inside. I've never said anything like that before.

So fed up / angry / confused.

Sorry. What a load of blurb of my chest. It probably doesn't make sense!

dung (((hugs))) I think anyone would have struggled to stay detached in the face of that. Let him walk away with a smile. He's the one your DC don't want to spend time with. He isn't winning.

As an aside, something I've found helpful is to talk in terms of choices. When I get 'why does dad do/not do x?' from DC, rather than attempt to find a way to explain that he's a selfish unreliable prick without causing hurt, I can base an answer around 'it's his choice, and sometimes he makes bad choices/doesn't make good choices'. I'm sure I'm going to have to have a more detailed talk about it one day, but so far it seems to have worked in both explaining that it's down to him not DC, and that it's not good without directly criticising him as a person. Any thoughts on that or other approaches gratefully received, it's a continuing worry for me.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/sep/22/oliver-james-love-bombing-children?client=safari

This is not the exact idea we use but it's the closes thing I can find.

We use this along with "he can play with his toys anyway he likes" idea. I.e if he wants to use a dice as a brick or a teddy as a pillow (as long as it doesn't break the object) he can do what he likes with stuff.

We do this alongside him deciding what he'd like to do...

So far today we stayed In our pyjamas most of the morning.
Made a cake - this stared out as gingerbread and ended up as an orange (used food colouring) chocolate chip cupcakes .
We then went out to our communal gardens where Ds pretended To be a dog!!!! I kid you not. Eventually the gardener Arrived so Ds finally decided to be a boy again and dig the garden.
We are currently doing play oh and he built a dragon out of old boxes...
He wants to do soft play after lunch tho we will probably run out of time.
He happy, no tantrums, fights or arguments all day and it's been lovely to see him so happy.
I've had to dictate when we eat etc... But all in all we find it works. We usually only do this for an hour or so - so today is a test to see how longer goes.
He's retreated into his room & played by himself several times and is less "mummy mummy mummy" at me which is huge improvement on general days

Oh Dung, that's a crock of shit ! Good to get it off your chest, and it makes perfect sense.

So glad you were honest with your dc about their dad's behaviour. It validates their feelings, shows them they don't have to think it's ok if their mum, an adult, also doesn't think it's ok.

Can I suggest you take the initiative and email him first.

You've marked in your diary that he'll be taking dd to her club that day in November.

His request to switching dates for your birthdays. No. And no explanation.

Tell him dd doesn't want to go to his Tuesday. No explanation.

Advise him that next time he goes to the cm she will be expecting him to pay her, as that's what you've told the cm.

I don't know the details of your situation so some or all of the above suggestions may not apply. But to an outsider that's how I'd see going about arranging things, but not engaging. No digging, no point scoring, just facts.

Don't email just now. Calm down and do something nice if you can. After you send the email don't engage with any reply, whether it's a call/text/email. Ignore, ignore.

And remember. Your dc are where they really want to be - with you.

Oh dung ... 💐

Off to lunch now with a friend who's ex makes mine look like a bloody saint. He usually drops by when he knows she's got a friend around, he's quite menacing. I've got my "don't f**k with me" head on today, so half hoping he comes so she can send him packing and I can ignore him!!!

Thank yo all. Mad how you all understand when I often feel it doesn't make sense at all

Oh dung - just remember he's a 3 year old needing to control. As advised: facts, short and sweet, do not explain or justify, ignore replies attempting to suck you in

Have to see WN for handover later. Feeling sick already. He makes my skin crawl.

duck was it you who asked earlier if anyone else still feels controlled to an extent? I think I tried to reply to that in my post that got lost. Yes, I do, I have to think about his reactions, always having to take him into account and worry about what he'll do next, who it will affect and how. Being told by him how it will be and having to work out whether and how to counteract the consequences. I hate it and the salt in the wound is that he gets to swan around living his wonderful life (except he has to be him) doing whatever he likes, controlling everyone around him. No responsibility, plenty of spare cash, free time and women and gets to see his wonderful DC whenever he declares it will be so. He doesn't deserve it, none of these awful men do but it seems to be how it goes.

green yes that was me!
I'm very relieved I no longer have to deal with him (although I would have preferred that it wasn't because he assaulted my dd). Feel just the same as you 're: swanning around getting on with life. I have so many examples but most ridiculous one was when he manipulated me in to letting him drop maintenance payments for a year while his new wife studied at uni. Within months he was away off abroad with her for a few nights having a hair transplant!!!! Couldn't make this up!

dung sounds awful

Dung you did so well telling your DCs it's his choice to show bad behaviour. They then understand that you decide to show good behaviour. No one is making him unreasonable but him, you are the strong, reliable parent. My ex can still provoke me, sure he's building to some horrible news soon. Desperately trying to steer clear.

Dusters you said "Worst case scenario, you have a nice lunch/drink, bit of a laugh,"...no laughs. Seriously spent 3 hours together, no chemisrt and no fun and he took me to cheapest place ever. I wouldn't have minded paying for more, but it all got awkward. I kept thinking about ex (not exH but exBF of 3 mths). I wished I was with him.