support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh 2

[Lilacpink40]

Hope this works...

Hi FIGHTER; thanks. I didn't think I'd have a leg to stand on legally .
I'm gonna meep the "Ds is ill so can't come" - up my sleeve. It's half term here next week and Ds is wth me all week. And X has already stated no visit the following week so it'll be after that.

purple my gut instinct would be to get it in writing to protect yourself, like you say. In a way it does mean you're not disengaging, but I find that when I'm doing the same thing it doesn't affect me in the same way as when trying to reason with them with hope. As long as you know you're doing it to state your case rather than with any expectation that they'll see sense, it's bearable.

Do the sols work Saturday, could you run it past them this morning? Failing that maybe a helpline, WA or similar, if it would help you feel sure that it's the right thing. I think generally advice is to document everything though, and email is the only way I can think of that you can do that in this case.

2012 I'd say the same thing to you I think, I completely understand where you're coming from and have been there too. That young I don't think they do have a legal say so other than forcing them to go, as the RPs it has to be us saying no to contact. But, contact has to be in the best interests of the child and it's your judgement call on whether forcing him to go is. I'd document everything you can, whatever you decide to do, just in case you need it later.

Morning all.

Purple. I agree with emailing him. Not to reason or anything, but merely to record for future reference. How about something like:

"You are aware that (recently/last few weeks?) ds has contacted me by text (and phone?) during his contact time with you. He has been in distress and has requested to come home. On one occasion the situation became such that you were physically aggressive towards him. Your repeated position to me has been that there is not a problem. You have put any onus of responsibility onto ds, citing his "attitude". He is 12.

There are further contact visits upcoming, including during half-term. My understanding is that you will be ensuring ds feels comfortable enough to enjoy these visits, along with his siblings. Clearly this is in his best interests, both now and long term."

2012 my instinct says keep him with you, keep him safe and happy. But I totally get everything else you say in your post. What if you emailed ex along the lines of ds has been very teary about your upcoming visit. Do you have any ideas as to why this might be? Don't suggest or accuse, just see what he comes up with. It'll probably be all your fault, but you've told him in writing about your ds's distress, but without accusing him of anything.

Hi all

Dusters - it was last weekend and unfortunately we didn't make it due to illness.

It was my birthday on Thursday. Despite everything when it was ExP''s birthday I made sure he had a card from our DC. Prize for the first one who guesses correctly if he made sure the DC gave me a card...

Purple - I really feel for you.

Purple reading that back my first suggested paragraph probably needs toning down. I think you'd be entitled to say those things, but I know you don't want your ex to take things out on your ds.

FWIW I agree with emailing, keeping to the fact and keeping emotions out of it. Personally I'd speak to the solicitors first. At this stage anything you say can, and will, be used against you. No point reasoning or appealling to his better nature.

2012, its such a difficult one. Could it be the case that the thought of it is actually worse than the event itself? So often the children are fine when they get there and its the thought of the separation which is fearful, not going itself. I'm afraid I'd probably be "happy" about it for DS's sake although I know its heart-breaking inside. So often its down to us to facilitate their contact, even though XPs just don't deserve the love of their lovely kids. It absolutely makes my piss boil - but we keep smiling and chiming "it'll be fine, you'll have a lovely time". What choice is there? (I am tempted to move far, far away on a daily basis).

Oh Frog, that's crap. I'm sorry. I hope you still had a lovely day.

Happy Birthday for Thursday.

Frog sorry you missed your event, and the birthday card....... Just childish, spiteful, mean. No surprises there, eh? Similar here. He manages a card - just.

This year on his birthday I decided to see if the dc took the initiative, they're old enough. On the way out the door my dd went "Card!!!" So we improvised. One from the box of general cards, all aimed at kids. We customised it a bit but I suspect he knew it was last minute !!

Belated greetings to you Frog

frog he's an arse, seriously I'd stop with the cards if he isn't doing the same for you. Happy birthday for Thursday.

fox I could have written that! I try so hard to be positive but it's so hard to see the way they treat their DC isn't it. I take the approach that I'll facilitate contact as much as possible for DC sake but not if it's clearly rejected. Ultimately though the onus should be on the WNs to see their DC, not make us dance around trying to make sure it happens like they're doing something generous and gracious by agreeing to see them.

Btw frog if it makes you feel better, mine's never bothered with cards for me. Fine, it means I don't have to make any effort for him either of course will help DC with it in years to come if asked but I already know he won't do the same. Wanted you to know you're not alone!

Cards from the kids ("did you buy the most shit cards in the shop?" no, but I wish I had you ungrateful tosser). A token present.

Christmas will be interesting. I bought him socks, pants and a good cook book (he can't/wont cook anything for the kids when they stay) last year. Not sure what he was expecting, but he wasn't happy and made that clear. Clearly though he deserved a lot more. (He bought me a cookbook, I can and do cook, and I have hundreds already). He refused to eat the breakfast we had (he wanted bacon and egg sandwiches, but we had doughnuts and coffee - we'd been to America on our holidays and the kids loved it). He had lunch with us, brought nothing by way of contribution and complained I had cava and not champagne.

This year I'm not sure what he expects ... i suspect he will want to come round Christmas morning to see the kids open their presents (the ones I choose, buy and wrap until 3am).

I shall let him come for Christmas lunch if he wants to, but I am claiming the morning as my own. He will get socks from me, and will every year from now on.

I'm very nervous this weekend. DC has a massive bruise after falling earlier this week - it is quite nasty - and I afraid he's not going to return DC or call SS ( he's done that before)

fox I used to get the 'it's not good enough' when I bought him things when we were together, which is why I'm so happy not to bother now. I'd spend loads, way more than I could afford to try and please him and it was never enough. Socks and keeping your morning to yourself sound like a great plan.

frog I understand. Honestly I'd try to speak to somebody before he goes if you can, even just to put your mind at rest. Kids get bruises and you can explain it so please try not to worry, easier said than done I know

frog for your birthday

I like the idea of us all getting socks for narc from DCs for every event. Or Tshirts with pictures that DCs would love to see, "you must wear it when out with us dad", with images they'd hate (primark cartoon ones?).

My advice with OLD is apply your own filter. For example:
They must refer to work in some capacity.
Must have ticked 'relationship' not 'dating'. No "poor me" stories, or negative references to women.
Must make positive reference to own DCs.
Must have regular hobbies or interests.
Know basic grammar and show some humour.
Must be reasonably near.

Then the big one, try to get name and work details through chat and google / check FB. At least you can see if he's single!

I've looked through about 150 profiles on 3 sites over last two days and have one potential match. Seeing him tomorrow. I think 1:150 was similar last time. Biggest tip, don't reply to all the messages that you get. Do the selection and then message out yourself.

Omg green this rang so true "Ultimately though the onus should be on the WNs to see their DC, not make us dance around trying to make sure it happens like they're doing something generous and gracious by agreeing to see them."...

My X NEVER organised a blasted thing.
I realised that way too late like always

Frog - happy birthday 🎂

Happy belated birthday frog Can see why you're worried about DC's bruise, don't know what's best to do in regards to that.

2012 its so tough sending them when they really don't want to go. DD would cry and struggle to not go in car :( but I'd skype her when she was there and she had always cheered up so I do think its the separation rather than the visit that upsets them.

I don't get ex anything for Christmas and no cards for his birthday. DD makes him a Father's Day card at daycare, that's it.

2012 my WN ex told me if I wanted him to see DC I'd move heaven and earth to make sure it happened. As if he has no responsibility whatsoever and I must do as he says or he won't bother. It backfired because it made me realise that actually, he should be putting the effort in and not trying to use DC to punish and control me.

Frog. Belated birthday wishes. I am hopeful next year you will have a fabulous one!

Try to rise above it all re the bruise. You haven't done anything wrong. I get sucked into enormous rounds of defence (self) when WN starts trying to cause waves. It's such a waste of energy and destabilises you. Please try and rise above it - nothing to see here, don't give him any validation.

I think Ds finds the separation very difficult.
I think he also finds being with X hard! He says that they go where X wants. There are always lots of people around who Ds doesn't know very well or at all.
Sometimes He comes home wearing same clothes he went in (pants & socks too), with no bath or wash.& he stinks!!! 😨 I mentioned it to X who Just shrugged "I dunno" (stupid beefy-Bert style). 😡
I sent a bag of ds's clothes - enough for a week. He only ever stays 2 nights max so not sure why he can't get changed.
Ahhhh I'm going dizzy so better stop thinking too much.
Today I think they've gone to X golf club so hope he get something half decent to eat.

Thanks for the birthday wishes, folks.

You're right, Purple. It so hard dealing with someone who lies, manipulates, assumes, exaggerates etc. I have not one, but two ex's who, if I didn't know better, could be mistaken for twins when comparing their behaviour. I'm in constant worry about what stick either of them will choose to beat me with next and I'm useless at deflecting their attacks and cutting through their tactics.

So, Saturday night - what's everyone up to?

Watching strictly after we treated ourselves to a chippy :)

We r watching strictly too 😀

Frog. We are going through the same with 2. They didn't even like each other and had virtually no contact - but in recent months have tried to join forces with their bullshit. Amazing. They think one validates the other. One even tried to stop paying the measly amount of maintenance they pay via CSA because the other lied about what he paid to me. CSA were on him though thankfully. Lovely social worker I spoke to told me they should be ashamed of themselves and instead of focusing on trying to make my life hell actually support me and parent properly themselves. Fat chance of that though.

Feeling down about DC having shit WN ex for a father and slow torture that is disintegration of new relationship. About to go and search out chocolate, might have a bath. Wallowing, in a nutshell!

And to think, I used to have a social life...

frog I feel for you so much having two of the fuckers to deal with. I know you probably don't feel it but you are one strong woman.