"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[pocketsaviour]

It's October 2016, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Hi, been on MN for a while but NC for this thread.

I'm due to have my first child in a few weeks and struggling with the realisation of how much my parents and sister dislike me and think I'm a horrible person.

I recently told my sister constructively that she had done something that hurt me and she has flipped out, told me that I have been harsh and hurt and upset her badly, I can only think she's read some nasty intent into my messages that isn't there, all I did was explain that I was a bit hurt and why.

I have always felt that I am a bad person and other people don't like me and it's like I've had a lightbulb moment where I've suddenly realised how much I've internalised the dislike that my family have for me. As well as my sister, my parents have made comments over the years about me being cold, distant, nasty etc. The three of them are massively co-dependent and the only thing I can think of is that they see the fact that I try to be independent and stand on my own two feet as me being a bad person. But even writing that, deep down I don't feel that it's true, that they are right that I'm just a bad person, and anyone reading this will think the same. If my own family who have known me all my life believe I'm a bad person then it must be true.

I feel like I'm going to be a bad mum and that if my own family don't like me, why would my child? I was also badly bullied at school by people who were supposed to be my friends and it's all contributed to my belief that I am not a likeable person.

I have a lovely DH who tells me I'm a good person but I just can't bring myself to believe him.

Chrst Steve you need to be pretty strong to get through the NHS mental health processes don't you? If it's any comfort my very expensive private therapist cancelled my last session citing an unspecified personal issue and hasn't been back in contact in over 6 weeks. It's starting to remind me of the process when I had recurrent miscarriage, when the people who're supposed to look after you don't, and you spend the time you should be grieving fighting to be taken seriously and treated properly.

blacksheep welcome, sadly, you sound like you fit right in here.
It sounds like you've reasoned out correctly what's happened to you - you're the scapegoat, it's not you it's them - but your emotions don't reflect that. That's because you've been made to feel guilty for... bloody everything, from early childhood onwards. You're not a bad person. You will be a good mother although unless you get help, you might find it quite hard - early motherhood is quite lonely and there's not a lot of external validation of how you're doing, and the feelings of guilt and being unloved will be there waiting in the wings to fill the gaps. Knowing where those feelings are coming from will help to move past them though. Go out to baby groups, find nice people, find the mums you can have a bit of a laugh with, that will make it easier. If you get shit from people, passive-aggressive rubbish advice, judgement, etc - remember there are lots of unhappy people out there with shit opinions to share, it's about them not you, and see it as your duty to reject all of that and let it bounce off you like you would be an umbrella protecting you and your DC and your relationship.

The bullying is a double whammy because you weren't getting the friendly human contact you so needed, and it's easy to believe that being bullied is a reflection of you being unlikeable, like your family say - but in fact the reason you were picked out for bullying is simply because you'd been bullied before in your family of origin so you made an easy target. (You'll probably find once you start really getting into it, you'll be able to spot patterns and see that lots and lots of the problems and conflicts you've struggled with in your life are basically reruns of your childhood, the same people doing the same shit. And you might feel like it's not valid, that it's a cop out to "blame everything on your parents" but the truth is, childhood emotional abuse is huge, it has a huge effect on your life, life was supposed to be nice, it was supposed to be - not easy, but the emotions were supposed to flow, it was not supposed to be as hard as this.

I'd recommed any and all of the books above, and also Pete Walker's ^Surviving Complex PTSD" which has a great description of how those feelings of guilt and unlovability arise.

blacksheep

What toomuchtooold wrote to you in its entirety. Your parents were not good parents to you and they still are not. They made your sister to be just like them. People from dysfunctional families as well end up playing roles; whilst your sister is golden child you were assigned the role of scapegoat for all their inherent ills. It is NOT your fault they are like this, you did not make them this way. Your parents own families of origin did that to them.

I would also suggest you keep your child well away from all your family of origin going forward as well because toxic parents more often than not become toxic grandparents as well. If your DHs relations are nice then concentrate on them.

Thank you both so much for your replies.

My instinct is to say it's not that bad (but I can see from the first post that that's very common!) My parents were very financially generous and they always told me they loved me, but I guess in reality that love is very inconsistent and that's what's left me feeling so insecure.

My mum is a self involved narcissist and my dad is EXTREMELY sensitive to criticism and lashes out at any perceived criticism. I guess my sister has ended up being a combination of the two.

The irony is that I'd love to distance myself from them, but then I'd be proving them right that I'm distant and cold hearted. In a lot of ways I feel sorry for them as they are all deeply unhappy people.

steve it's rubbish you have to wait so long I was lucky I only waited 4 months because I was pregnant and a priority it is worth it (with the right person) once you get seen and my initial councillor told me you can self refer for additional therapy once you are in the system so hopefully it's the same in your area.

Blacksheep I had my first child last year and have just been through the same I could have written your post!

As toomuch pointed out through councilling I have come to realise that a lot of the situations I've found myself in are me falling into a familiar role, I attract people who treat me badly because that's the role I've learnt to play.

On a positive note I've found becoming a mother a revelation, the depth of love I have for my DC, it's also given me a new perspective on my childhood. I Could never treat my dc the way they treat me and I'm always doing a little self check.
I really feel like I was meant to be a mother, I was so worried my whole pregnancy that I would be a bad mother, that I would be my parents but actually I've found my own way.

The first few months are very hard but believe in yourself, you know what's best for you and your child. Decide now about visits in the hospital/ at home ect. Prep your OH on the party line and do what's best for you.

Thanks Glittery, I really hope having my own child and starting my own family is a fresh start for me like it seems it was for you 🙂

It is very common for people in our situation to be fatalistic about the fact that our children won't like us. We have it drummed into us that we are unlikeable from such an early age. I thought this for so long and particularly about my DD.

I was determined that I would do my best for them and be the absolute opposite of my evil mother. They are in their 40s now and I have a great relationship with them and with my GKs. The best moment in my life was when my DD confided somethingto me. The three if them were on a night out, I was babysitting all the GKs. They had been chatting and they had said that they wanted to raise their kids the way they had been raised. They wanted to give them the same childhood they had.

You absolutely can break the cycle. The only thing my mother ever gave me of any value was lessons on How not be a mother. I am not saying it is easy. She died 18 months ago, after 70 years of nastiness. If only MN had been around when I was younger. I might have found the courage to go NC. Instead I was still running around after her when I was in my 60s. She remarried and I ran around after her husband too. Neither of them ever showed a bit of kindness or gratitude to me, quite the opposite in fact. Even at 70 I guess the inner child was still craving their approval.

steve NHS mental health services can be a nightmare and being strong enough to deal with it when you are struggling with mental illness is so hard. Hope you manage to get the treatment you need even if it takes a while.

blacksheep I had my first child just over 3 years ago and it definitely makes you reassess your own childhood. It's taken a while but I'm starting to have the confidence to feel like a parent and be able to set boundaries with my oldest daughter without feeling like I'm destroying her life. Becoming a parent for first time is hard especially if you don't have your own childhood as an example of what a secure, healthy upbringing is like. But you do have examples of what not to do.

astrantia it's nice to hear how you've broken the cycle of abuse with your own children and gives me hope that I will be able to do the same. Someone mentioned the other day how mothers and daughters have a close relationship and do things together like shopping and going for coffee. I realised that there's a possibility of having this kind of relationship with my own daughters, it had never really occurred to me before.

Haven't heard from my M since just after Christmas. She sent me an email which was just full of fake niceness. She saves her nastiness for face to face so she can deny it later. My youngest is 2 months old and had a few issues at birth. She's had follow up tests and is all fine now but my M hasn't even bothered to find out if she's OK. I'm considering just telling her that as she clearly isn't interested in her grandchildren just to not bother me again. I think I've been waiting for a reason to cut all contact and I think protecting my children is what will give me confidence to do it.

Hi all. I've name changed just in case, as this is probably going to be identifying.

I'm low contact with my mum, and have been for quite a few years. She's away a lot anyway so it's not that hard to avoid her physically, but she still expects - demands - frequent contact from me. So, around once a year she explodes in rage at 'our relationship' and how awful I am at not being a 'good' daughter. She can't bear being held at arms' length but that's the only way I can deal with her. She's the classic narcissistic mother - controlling, critical, and self-absorbed.

This time, I've received a very long email detailing everything that I've apparently done wrong over the last few months, how she's been holding back but now she feels that she has to let me know exactly how awful I am. It appears that she's also turned my siblings against me, one of whom still cannot see her for what she is (despite frequently complaining about her to me) and told me to 'just sort it out, you only get one mum'

I've been miserable since getting the email. I wish I'd just deleted it after seeing the first line, but it's like I was punishing myself by reading it all. In my heart I know that the accusations and criticisms aren't true, but, as usual, hearing them directed at me makes me feel that they must be at least partly true.

I haven't replied yet. I know that by not replying I'm making it worse, but I don't know what to put that can get the message across that I'm not accepting what she's saying, and that nothing about me/our relationship is going to change. It is so transparent - she wants me to defend myself on every point, and she hopes that I'll go on the attack back at her so that I give her something else to flog me with and she can do the martyr act. Once upon a time, I probably would have reacted like this, so I am feeling pleased that I am in a much stronger place now.

I know that she'll never change but I don't want to go no contact, as I am actually ok with how things are nowadays. It's just because she can't handle it that we're in this position now. Any thoughts on what I can do?

BeetrootOrange,

Welcome to the Stately Home.

Its not you, its her. She is disordered of thinking and you are the scapegoat for all her inherent ills. She has done the usual divide and conquer stratagem on your siblings and got them to take her side. She has manipulated them and now sends them in as her "flying monkeys" to do her bidding. These people as well are only acting in their own interests and not in yours so they can and should be ignored.

She was not a good parent to you and if you have children she is not a good grandparent figure to them either.

You do not mention your dad at all; is he still around?.

Are you really ok with how things are these days or are you really just trying to convince yourself here?. Do you think the current level of low contact is really working for you or is it worth further lowering it (for example blocking her e-mails to you). That is a small but significant boundary that can be achieved. Low contact in many cases leads to no contact.

What are your own boundaries like with regards to your mother anyway? Do they need further raising and reinforcement?. You may well find it difficult to set boundaries anyway mainly because she has encouraged you not to have any and always put her first and foremost, certainly above your own self. She trained you well really.

TBH I would now block her from your e-mail account particularly as her writings send you into a tail spin. Certainly do not reply to it or read any more of her vile writings.

I would read "Children of the Self Absorbed" written by Nina W Brown as well as reading the daughters of narcissistic mothers website. You may want to read the Out of the FOG website as well.

BeetrootOrange, it seems that they feel they can say whatever they like, but heaven help you if you try to stand up to them. Either by retaliating or ignoring, nothing seems to work.

In my life I have raised a family, held a responsible job, managed staff and done voluntary work all with a degree of outward confidence. Inside I go over and over what I said what I did and question whether it was the right thing to do or say. Even into my 60s I would feel sick at the thought of visiting mother. The night before a visit I could not sleep, I would feel ill all. through the visit and depressed afterwards. Even the 6 years when she had Alzheimer's and did not even know who I was, she managed to look at me with a hateful expression.

I think the only thing you can do is not reply. That way she will not know whether you have read it. I think that will enrage her, but what worse can she do.

Am finding life just so difficult at the moment. Just so many challenges and problems and literally no joy in life. All a massive struggle, no idea where impetus or change is going to come from. And why should it, when it's not thus far.

That's lovely Astrantia, I really hope I can break the cycle. I am so terrified of ending up like my mum.

Sleepy you're absolutely right that having a child gives you new priorities, I'm only realising now at 37 weeks pregnant that my child is all that matters. I have every reason to distance myself from them in order to protect him.

Beetroot I wish I knew what the answer is. I think the others are right that you're probably best off just not replying.

Really sorry you're struggling Steve

I'm not even sure I should be here.. I wrote a thread and another MNer recommended I come post here.

But my problem is just so much more than that thread

My childhood was okay growing up, I guess. I was punished when I was naughty by my dad, usually a firm slap to the backside or thighs which left a glowing red handprint. But I was generally ignored or ushered to play in my room or outside.

When I was 11, my dad moved out of the family home to live with his mistress, and my mum routinely, especially when she was angry, would tell me how it was my fault that my dad had left us. It was my fault because I "was always naughty, never wanted to do anything and was always causing grief in the family." She's never admitted to doing this, claiming it's all in my head.

At 12 my mum met a new man. I always felt from the beginning that he didn't like me. For the first 1-1.5 years, and sometimes after that, whenever my mum would walk out of the room he'd hit me. One time I was getting off of the floor and because I didn't move fast enough threw me on my back and knelt on my chest so that I couldn't breathe all because he couldn't, for that moment, change the Tv channel. My mum denies this ever happened, but if it didn't then I'll never know why my dad said to me, a few years later, when it still occasionally happened, "your mum is happy, if you ever get him arrested I'll beat you seven shades".

At about 12/13, I was a slightly chubby kid, not fat but chubby, my dad turned to me in the car one day and told me "if you were stood next to a really pretty, thin girl right now and a good looking boy came up to you. Who would he choose?" It crushed me, because even then I knew he didn't mean me.
At 13, I was talking to an older man (21) - he gave me the attention I craved - my parents found out and had a talking to me. My dad punched me in the face, and I'd have been on the floor had my mum not have put the old TV/TV stand there a week before to get rid of. He did it because I dared to back chat him and say "but he never touched me" (inappropriately) after they were trying to accuse him, he wasn't there, of touching me. She denies this ever happened and I have a very over active imagination. I still remember the pain and the disgust I felt.

17 I fell out with my paternal aunt and cousin on FB. They told my dad and he came round three weeks later, flung the door open, went right in my face, and started shouting a me, telling me "who do you think you are? You're lucky I didn't come round three weeks earlier or I'd have beat you seven shades". My dad like using the phrase "beat you seven shades" I never knew why.

The only time I ever really saw my dad from the time he left, was when he was "keeping up appearances" - I could tell he didn't want to be there - or when my mum rang him up to get me punished. I'm sure she relished in the fact that my dad came round to threaten me.

I haven't really spoken to my dad, or seen him, since I was 17 (7 years ago). It was hard, really hard. He wasn't there for me physically or emotionally and didn't want to protect me either. Up until I was 17 my dad terrified me, and I mean terrified. I used to physically shake at the sight of him if I knew he was angry. My mum repeatedly tells me he's my dad and I should be there for him but I just can't do it.

My main problem is my mum. I live with her. Ever since my mid-teens she allowed her boyfriend to be snide, snarky and degrading. Whatever I did was wrong. I could do no right. He constantly belittled me and found fault with everything I did, or didn't do. They split up 4 years ago, which was also my fault. I won't lie I hit him, but the day before I'd overdosed (I got taken to hospital, spent hours getting checked over, came back home late at night) and for 5 hours, yes that's FIVE hours, I endured a torrent of how much of a waste of space I am, how I'm not good for anything, etc, all because I wasn't up to going down to the job centre. In that moment I just snapped.

My mum since I was about 15/16 has been telling me how much of a disappointment I am. How I'm such a selfish cow who only thinks about herself. She mocks and degrades me at every opportunity - even when I'm upset and trying to confide in her. She's snide and snarky. She'll blame me for everything, even things I didn't do. She'll ask me to help her, even if I can't, and then proceed to run me down. She'll tell me that I ruined her life. That she and my dad did the best they could and I've always been difficult to get on with. That none of the things I've said happened happened - it's just my overactive imagination and I'm just exaggerating. She'll comment on my looks and then tell me how I'm not good enough and if I do xyz then I "might be a bit happier". At least once, or twice, a week she'll start an argument with me over something trivial just so she has a reason to run me down, critiscise and belittle me.

I'm sure my mum revels in bringing me down, and belittling me. The older I get, the worse she gets. I went to my room, this happened some time during the later part of last year, because I just couldn't deal with her. I have a lock on my door (previous owners put it there) and I locked it so she couldn't get in. She came upstairs banged on my door and screamed "you either unlock this door and get down those fucking stairs, or I'll kick it in and fucking drag you down them!"

Maybe she's like this with me because of something I've done. I find it very hard to trust people. My parents couldn't be there for me, so I think other people won't either. And as my parents seem to dislike me so much I think I must be such an unlikeable person.

Sorry for the long post, and as I said I don't even think I should be here, but I just really needed to let it all out.

Jannerite for you and welcome. Why is it that you don't think you should be here? This thread is a support thread for anyone who needs it and it really sounds like you do. There are people on here who will be able to offer you excellent advice or if you just need to get this stuff out then you can. I've found it helps just to know I'm not the only one who didn't have parents that gave them any sense of real security or love growing up.
Is there anyway of you moving out away from your mum? If you can then that would probably be a good place to start getting some perspective.

Oh Jannerite that sounds absolutely horrendous. Is there any possibility of moving out? Your parents sound truly toxic.

Hey everyone. Boy do I feel silly now - I wrote a massive post in a new thread earlier and have only just noticed this thread which is totally relevant!! Oops apologies I'm new!! So glad to see I'm not alone and there are plenty of others with very odd mothers. Here is a copy of my original post as I feel a response is a lot more likely in this thread!! Thank you

Hi everyone, first time visiting here and thought I may benefit from sharing an important issue in my life which maybe someone out there can relate to and/or share any help or advice on what to do! It's a bit complicated but I will try to keep it brief so please, bear with me and apologies if it turns into an essay!

Basically bit of background quickly - I grew up in the care of my mum and my nan (mum was 21 when I born and still lived at home, never moved out and dad left before I was born) and have always had tonnes of love and affection from my nan but never my mum, I think she used to say "love you" when I was really little but no hugs or kisses. Obviously had all that from my nan and she did most of the caring for me as my mum went out to work so I was never short of love/attention/care.

When I was 18 we moved out and mum finally got us our own place, shortly after moving her boyfriend in and several months after my sister was born. They are still together and all live together. I'm not going to sugar coat things and say I've been perfect - I haven't, I was a terrible teenager, anxiety, depression, self harm, suicidal, drug abuse so I know that must have been hard on my mum but she admitted in recent years that she knew she should have got me help from a mental health team but "didn't want them to blame me or say that any of it was my fault" - her exact words.

In recent years I have had 2 beautiful children which she seems happy about, always spoiling the oldest when he arrived and always buying bits and pieces. She's very house proud and likes to have nice things and furniture and is always buying me bits for the house and things I need whilst at the same time critisising everything about my house and how I live. She's very material and puts a lot of store into having nice things where as I'm more inclined to feel that emotion and relationships take a much higher priority.

The main problem in this very long story (very sorry, please don't give up now!) is when I was pregnant with second son. I'm not very good at keeping my phone within reach so often miss calls or don't get back to her straight away. She got fed up with this and stopped calling me and due to my busy life with a toddler didn't contact her for a week or so. After this I sort of left it to her to contact me as I was out of credit and she has a house phone but she never called. This turned into months of no contact resulting in my going into premature labour and my son being very poorly and spending 2 months in SCBU. Despite being in contact with my nan and her relaying all this to my mum, still no contact. 7 months later I decided on her birthday to surprise her with a visit with her new grandson and all was well, not much was said about it aside from if you never answer the phone I will stop calling. We were back to normal for all of about 4 months and since just before Christmas she text me saying she would call in a few days and nothing. Waited and waited and waited and NOTHING.

This time I've given up, I made the contact last time this happened as I wanted my kids to have a relationship with their nan but after this has happened a second time and with no obvious reason - she said she would call and never did I can't be bothered with it and don't think I should put my children or myself through this again. I have no answers to her behaviour, she said previously that she wants to spend more time with the kids so if that's true then why be so quick to just drop them and me and stop talking to us. Clearly nothing I ever do is good enough for her and I can't help thinking that seeing as I didn't turn out how she had hoped I would as an adult, she's quite willing to just fuck me off to save herself the hassle.

Has anyone else got a similar story and am I being really quite selfish by not making an effort with her for a second time? I like to think that everyone deserves a second chance but she had hers already and to the same thing again so soon after the last time I just feel that I'm doing what's best for my kids and myself by not having a relationship with her. As I already said when I am speaking to her it's constant criticising and complaining about my house, my partner, my parenting, basically everything and I think we would all benefit from not having that negative influence on our lives. BTW my partner is nothing but amazing, hard working, provides us with everything, loving, kind and everything you would want a baby daddy to be, yet she feels he's a waste of space! I just might add that she hates my stepdad, constantly puts him down, moans about everything he does and is generally not happy with him. I can't help thinking that because she's in such a loveless relationship she somehow thinks that I should be too and is perhaps resentful toward me because my relationship is the complete opposite!?

Anyway again sorry for the very long post but I really had to tell someone about this as I don't know anyone else that has experienced the same thing. Any help or advice or words of wisdom would be very much appreciated and hopefully I can get rid of this guilty feeling I have for essentially abandoning my own mother, even if she has initiated this situation and has somehow resented me since the moment I was born.

Thank you very much and I look forward to any response!!

Jannerite, this is the place where you will be listened to but, more importantly you will be believed. Throughout these threads over the years people have begun by saying the don't deserve to be here. Sometimes because they feel the abuse they have suffered is not as bad as what others have endured, or theybfeel it is all in their head or because they think that what happened to them was normal.

There is so much, kindness, wisdom and experience here . People here will try their best to help you in anyway they can. Never ever feel that you do not have a voice here.

Beetroot if you want to reply to the email I think you need to keep it as factual and unemotional as possible. Basically just what you said, that you don't accept the criticisms in the email and don't wish to discuss the email further, and that you won't be increasing your contact with her either.
Don't torment yourself thinking that if you could only say it right, or say it at the right time or whatever, that your mother would get it and change her behaviour or that there's a way you could get your sibling to understand... your sibling might wake up at some point, your mother probably not, but in any case it's down to them to want to change. Your sibling grew up in that environment and is still dancing to your mother's tune.
What usually happens after one of your mother's explosions?

Astrantia thank you so much for sharing your experience both with your mother and your children. I really hope I can have the kind of relationship with my girls that you have with yours. TBH I'll be glad just if they're happy - my expectations are so low following my own childhood, I'll be content just not to mess them up, but it would be amazing.

Steve I'm really sorry to hear things are so bad. FWIW this stranger off the internet says just survive the day, that's enough for now. It's bloody February, the NHS are giving you the runaround and your daughter's been ill. Just coping with that lot is more than enough to be getting on with.

Sleepy - I always have this nagging doubt that nobody will care or want to know what I have to say. I constantly second guess myself, and will spend ages reading/thinking something over before I post/say it. I just don't think anybody will really care enough.

Moving out isn't really an option. I couldn't afford to live on my own, plus I have a dog who I'm sure my mum would get rid of the moment I did (she's been "jokingly" saying she's going to sell him for about the past month). Plus living alone scares me. Part of me thinks I can't do it - which is probably stemmed from being told how useless I am.

With regards to raising children in fear that you will mess them up. A big part of me feels that I wasted so much time fretting about it, which should have been spent enjoying them. However it made me quite guarded on not hurting them. I don't claim to be the perfect mother, looking back I could have done many things differently.

Sometimes I think that luck plays a part. You can see children in a family raised exactly the same way but sometimes one or two of the children just don't form the bond with their parent.

I cannot ever imagine the viscious cruel words coming from any decent person, which came out of hers. Sadly, this thread and the many books that have been written prove otherwise. We just don't have the coping skills to deal with them.I met my OH when I was 16 and he was appalled out her behaviour. At first he would nag a bit and tell me to stand up to her. It took him a long time to understand that it would be playing into her hands to answer back. She was so articulate and vicious that she needed only one word, one look, one innocent action to give her the opportunity to release her venom.

The other thing, of course, is how clever and manipulative they are of others. Many of her relatives have said harsh things about my brother who rejected her. A few years ago when she was in a care home, my cousin passed a remark about him. I said " you don't know what she was like to him. He has his reasons". I could tell straight away she dismissed what I said. Written large on her forehead was the words that give me the white rage. 'You only have one mother'

Sorry this was so long like everyone else, this is my only outlet.

Jannerite,

I believe you and these people who did this are beneath contempt.

You've been blamed by your mother (she is not worthy of the term honestly) for all the wrongs done to you by them along with her failed relationships. You are truly their scapegoat for all their inherent ills.

NONE of this was and is your fault or doing; you were but a child when all this started. Unfortunately, and that is an understatement, you were born to two parents who abused you both physically and emotionally throughout your childhood. After getting rid of him she then brought in another individual of a very similar type. They have all abjectly let you down and your mother further goes on to say that you "ruined her life"; a typical toxic parent type response along with the rest of the rubbish she comes out with. Its their fault entirely, you are in no way to blame.

I would contact NAPAC napac.org.uk/ as they can and will help you here.

It also goes without saying that you need to move out and take your dog with you. Do you have friends outside the home, do you work?. I would also be contacting Shelter in your particular circumstances as well. Ultimately you need to have no contact at all with your mother.

"You only have one mother." Yeah, I always want to say to people "you're right, I did - there was nobody else - my dad was there but I spent hours a day alone with her, growing ever more vigilant to her moods, never knowing when I was safe, never knowing what might trigger her off. She was the person I was supposed to feel safe with, and she was the scariest, nastiest person in my life." I look at my own kids and I feel intimidated by the responsibility of being in that role, you're the one they're attached to, there's no option for them really, they love you because they have to. People with a good upbringing take their mothers' love for granted I think (which is as it should be, it should be the foundation you stand on) and forget that the bond is one of mutual loving kindness, not biology. I've been good enough to my mother to last several lifetimes. I owe her nothing.
I remember once at school I was sick and one of the other mums walked me home, she was a big fat woman, she was really just nice and friendly, somebody local to us, and I thought what it would be like to go home to her house. I'd be no bother. I was a quiet kid. I'd have blossomed, in her house, or any of them around us. I remember walking down the road with my mother and I'd have done something wrong, again, and she'd be gripping my hand so hard it hurt and whispering threats of how hard she was going to hit me when we got home, how useless I was, how evil, doing the whole "answer this rhetorical question" game - you know when they go "are you doing this to make an idiot of me? Do you think I'm an idiot?" and whatever you say or don't say you'll be in more trouble, the mounting fear, and the worst thing - knowing that you will have to talk her down or it'll get worse and worse, trying to strike the right pose of fawning apology for her to stop - and then we'd run into one of our neighbours out and she'd be all smiles and I'd be pleading with my eyes, don't go away, don't leave me with her, walk us home, invite her in for tea... there was one neighbour who basically had her door open for me all the time, I wonder if she knew what my mum was like. She was a perceptive lady, and kind. Where I grew up there was all sorts of abuse and neglect, very visible, and I don't think people would really have understood what happened to me. To emotionally abuse a quiet, peasant kid, but then to take great care that she always looks "immaculate" - my mother's word - it was a kind of abuse I don't think people could get their heads round. Alcoholics who hit their kids and let them go to school with dirty clothes on and no breakfast, that you could understand, you know?

Jannerite I always have this nagging doubt that nobody will care or want to know what I have to say. I constantly second guess myself, and will spend ages reading/thinking something over before I post/say it. I just don't think anybody will really care enough.

I feel like that too - like on here I often think everyone's looking at my posts and going "why the hell is she sticking her oar in again". It is a symptom of our shitty childhoods. We care, for what it's worth.
Your parents are horrible. You should never have had to go through any of that. And this might sound obvious but not only did they treat you abominably, they also of course neglected to teach you how to be independent - I imagine your mother may have been/may be actively sabotaging your attempts at independence, because who will she use as a scapegoat once you get out? That's why you find this all so scary. But you are at a great age to leave. 24. You're old enough to go and never come back, and you're young enough that if you go now you have a whole adulthood in which to have a normal happy life.

I wonder if there's anyone on here who would have some practical advice about ways of moving out? What do you do for a job? Could you get a student loan and go to university? Find a job with accomodation? You can get work as a live-in carer without needing any qualifications, or there's bar/catering work that comes with accomodation. Seriously, getting out of there should be your priority. I cannot tell you how much less scary the outside world is than where you are right now. It will be hard, at first, but you will learn by doing, and it gets easier. You need to make your preparations without her finding out if you can, it will be a lot easier.
She's keeping your dog hostage, of course she is. Because the dog loves you, and she's jealous, and she knows the dog is leverage over you. Could you rehome him with a friend if you can't take him with you?

Thirteen I know there's people on this thread who had the abandoning type of batshit crazy mother, hopefully someone will be along soon. My own mother was the engulfing type but you end up feeling the same, it's the same lack of love. Can I just say:
I was a terrible teenager, anxiety, depression, self harm, suicidal, drug abuse
You weren't a terrible teenager, you were a deeply unhappy one. Think about where that "terrible" label is coming from (not you) and think about how you would feel about your own kids if they were going through similar troubles as teenagers. You'd be worried for them, wouldn't you. Sympathetic. You'd wonder what you'd done wrong and how to make it right. You wouldn't be looking at them and thinking "what a burden this child is to me, why is my child so terrible".

You wouldn't be abandoning your mother if you choose not to maintain contact. She drops contact with you, despite you doing your best to stay in contact and make it nice with her. You have this guilty feeling but your behaviour doesn't warrant any guilt - I would imagine the guilt stems from childhood, where you were probably made to feel responsible for your mother's feelings?
I don't know if you will relate to this but when I went NC with my mother I felt guilty at how happy it made me. I felt like I was being lazy, just putting my own happiness above my duties. But you know there is nothing wrong with being happy.

hello all, i'm new here, i've been reading the thread, i can identify with so much that is being written. i'm so very sorry to hear that others have suffered abuse, i so wish things had been different for us all, it causes so much damage, some of it i believe is irreversible. i grew up in a very dysfunctional family, suffering physical & emotional abuse. i've had no contact with my mother for 4 years & my father died nearly 10 years ago. i've had periods before of nc with all my family, i think the longest i went before was over 5 years, i always felt ostracised by them all anyways, they're all so extremely messed up, abusive, manipulative, they will never change, it stemmed from the eldest member of the family, it trickled down, history repeating itself, people manipulated & played off against each other, jealousy, greed, lies, insecurity. I was the target for the physical abuse & bore the brunt. it's all left me feeling very alone, like i don't fit in or belong any where, that there is no place for me in this world, that it was never meant to be for me. i am lucky that i have a very supportive husband, he is the only person who i have contact with, i am very isolated which i know isn't healthy but i'm working on it.

I don't really have any friends. I just don't think I'm worthy of them. Primary school I had friends that ignored me at school, but at home wanted me to hang out with them. Secondary schoool I had friends that would hang out with me in school, albeit talk about me behind my back (or even right in front of my face and then pretend it was about somebody else) and refuse to outside of school.
I had a boyfriend from 15-17 who knocked any self-confidence, self-esteem, I may have had left. He was never violent.. but he would tell me things like "nobody will ever love/care for you like I do". He'd call me a slut if I went out/looked at boys/talked to boys. He'd repeatedly dump me when he felt he was losing control, and then for the week after tell me how much he loved and missed me until we got back together. He'd tell me what to do. He constantly checked up on me. If I did anything he had to know who I was with, what I was doing, and what the plans were - if he didn't agree with it then he'd make it very much known. I eventually stopped going out altogether. I was afraid of my own shadow for ages when we eventually broke up because I didn't know what to do.
In adulthood I've not managed to keep a friend for longer than maybe a year, a year and a half. I don't know, I just think it's me. All of these people can't be acting like this because they're all the same, surely!

I have siblings. My brother and I got on okay when I was a child. He's 8 years older. We hit a rough patch in my teens. We clashed. In a way he was taking on the role of "dad", through his choice, because he didn't want my mum to be fined for my truanting. I hated school. He'd hit me, he once physically threw me out the door - by grabbing my school blouse near the buttons, lifting me up, and throwing. He's even tried strangling me. All before I turned 16. In adulthood I don't really see him. The only time I ever really hear from him is when he wants me to look after his 6 month old son - every weekend since he was born bar about 3-4 weekends - or he can't get hold of our mum.
My sister (9 years older) has a mild learning disability. She treats me with disdain. Will blame me for everything and accuse me of everything. She dislikes me, yet favours everybody else (even though I've probably tried to do more for her in the past decade than most people). I can't really blame her though because in a way it's what she's been taught to do - she's just following our parents' footsteps.

I had a job, but this is going to sound ridiculous. I couldn't cope. I had an immense fear I was going to do something wrong and that terrified me.

I sometimes think: maybe I'd be better off dead. It's not like many would miss me.