"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[pocketsaviour]

It's October 2016, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

At least you know where you stand Tarbert. I'm sure you're pleased with the knowledge that you can now move on with your life. Not saying this to sound, or be, PA, I'm really, genuinely pleased for you that you know where you stand, and now you can plan your life a bit better instead of wondering about that .

My mum isn't like that. Unfortunately, if something she says or does will make her look bad, she'll either deny it or try and justify why she did it. This is instead of just owning her actions/words and apologising for any damage she cause to my (and my DC's) mental health. My younger brother is the same. He's very protective toward mum, and anything that is an attempt to shatter his self-made image of mum being nothing but a wonderful person, is either a blatant lie or he tried to justify her actions, by blaming everyone but himself or mum. He fell out with me because I addressed his points about mum, and he couldn't counter them. He called me childish and then proceeded to fire insults (TBH they're only insults if that person's opinions are valued) and call me names. Pot, kettle and black come to mind LOL.

As you probably know, it's hard living with the uncertainty of not knowing whether you were really loved or not, which goes some way to understanding why you were treated abysmally in the first place. I'm sure it's a relief knowing what you know now, and understanding that you can move on and not look back. I've always wondered what I would do if mum requested that I don't attend her funeral. TBH, I couldn't bring myself to care about that and decided that I would respect her wish if that was the case.

If you go on YouTube and watch either Sam Vaknin (a narc who is in the process of striving to be a better person to people, with the help of his wife Lidia), Luminousz Ztar, or Richard Grannon. They are great for the insights of what it's like to either be a narc and have to deal with people leaving you because of your behaviour or have to deal with one. I'm sure you will find that there are a lot of things you can relate to in these videos.

I do hope these videos help you in some way, and I'm well chuffed that you're now free from your mum now

cheeky regarding your mum and your sister that's all not so surprising - they're stuck in their patterns. Your sister's still enmeshed with your mum, still fighting for a scrap of affection, and if you take your mum on on your sister's behalf, your sister is happily taking the role of favoured child and throwing you under a bus. It sounds like you feel responsible for looking after everyone, that's common in children from dysfunctional families - you won't do your sister any favours getting involved though, she needs to learn to stick up for herself. Or not! But it's not your problem.
Regarding the stuff about your dad I wonder if you might think about asking for that post to be deleted in case someone reads this and figures out who you are. Your poor dad.

Tarbert are you OK? It's a relief isn't it, when you realise? I found it a relief. So many things that were hard to understand just fall into place.

Scruff was it you who recommended Grannon before? I love him! I love that he is so outraged - it helps to un-normalise the abuse we've all suffered I think, to see someone reacting to it normally.

TooMuch, it was me who recommended Richard Grannon. He was in a relationship with a narc partner, so he can relate to a lot of the things we're all going through at the moment, albeit with other relatives/friends etc

Sam Vaknin is very interesting because, as a narc, he allows us to try and understand the emotions a narc experiences, as well as giving us an insight with how they work. If you want to know how a narc works, Sam Vaknin's your man to ask. At least he is trying hard to be a better person, as opposed to other narcs who probably know what they're doing but CBA to change for the better.

Trenton Hawley is another YouTuber who tends to generalise, but you can see clearly that he has been through a lot and the effect it has had on him, so I don't take the generalisations personally, because obviously he is talking about his experience only, and not that of others.

Sometimes, unfortunately, a person is so affected by their narc's abuse (covert and obvious) that they will generalise initially, but as the scales fall from their eyes, they see that there are decent people in the Cluster B category who are willing to try and change for the better. Trenton Hawley doesn't mean those decent people, he means those who know what they're doing but aren't willing to change their behaviour for the better.

Yes perhaps you are right too much

New to this.
I'm not sure if my mum and dad were what you would call abusive but they were certainly very uncaring and did not treat me well.
Throughout childhood I had everything I needed but they weren't warm and caring parents and I always knew they vastly preferred my sister, my mum would often say things to me like she did not know how she could have produced someone as awful as me and just chipped away at my self confidence.
When I was 22 I got into a relationship with an abusive man who hit me. I got pregnant. My mum threw me out even though she knew I had nowhere to go and would have to stay with him.
Throughout the pregnancy my sisters reported back to her that he was physically abusive, I kept expecting them to say that I could come back home but they never did.
I was afraid to go to a refuge as he'd told me that the baby would be taken away from me.
As soon as the baby was born they turned up at the hospital and their attitude was very much that I should be glad they had 'forgiven' me. I managed to leave abusive partner a couple of weeks later but wasn't offered any emotional support for the difficult time I'd had, instead I was told that what had happened to me wouldn't happen to someone like one of my sisters, implying that it was my fault.
Since then I have had a relationship with them and they gave me plenty of financial support in the first years of dd's life but my mum has been regularly unkind to me. Things have been better recently eg since I met someone good and kind and married him as I am now respectable, but I know that she would turn her back on me again if it came to it and we have recently had an argument where I felt that I had had enough, I've never really forgiven her for what she did to me years ago. Which makes me feel bitter and unforgiving and horrible.
Thanks for reading.

mirror

Your parents, in particular your mother, were and remain abusive towards you. Neither of them met your emotional needs and they continue to try and control you via financial means (to further obligate you). I would further lower all means of contact with your parents and keep your DD well away from them also.

You've always been respectable; its your parents who failed you here and abjectly as well. Their overall attitude towards you played a large part in you ending up in an abusive relationship when you were 22.

I would at the very least seek counselling for your own self; BACP are good and do not charge the earth. Its ok as well not to want to forgive them. You do not owe them a relationship either.

Tarbert very sorry to hear that you have my heartfelt sympathy. I laid my head on the table and sobbed at the moment that I finally realised that I didn't matter to either of my parents. But actually it is not a reflection on me, just a damning indictment of them.
I hope that this new clarity helps you to move forward with more confidence and a clear conscience x value yourself, you deserve better xx

Blah, have lots to write but a nasty stomach bug and an uncooperative father (refused to collect DDs boyfriend from town despite promising to on Thurs night. Poor lad phoned us and so we had a jaunt in heavy snow, frozen roads at 2am Fri morning, he'd been waiting four hours. Roads completely clear when he finished work).

Toomuch, to learn self-hypnosis? Or to have sessions with a hypnotist?

This thread is so empowering! What is concerning me however, is how angry I am. Is this normal?
Would be grateful for any comments on recent texts between DM and I. It is my DS birthday this week and DM had said she wasn't coming but both sister and Dad hinted that they were so I asked directly. I did call my sister when she said they were coming and was stressed and angry. I just felt they were doing what the hell they liked and were disregarding me completely.

Yes, will do. Can I check with you Mum whether you are planning to come over next Sat? I rang Sister and she said that you both were? I understood that you weren't coming from our phone call and already have cinema and meal booked x

I wud like to see DGS on his birthday, but i understand if you want to leave it for now Cheekymonk don't want to stress you out. Will i see him on sister's birthday? X

It's just that you didn't let me know your intentions so I hadn't booked space for you both. We will be out a large proportion of the day. Yes, when plans for Sisters birthday are finalised we will aim to come as a family of four but if sister does choose somewhere not very child friendly it would just be me

I think you assumed i wasn't , but that was not the case. Why wudn't i want to be with DGS on his birthday?

Because you didn't come last year, it was at Boing Zone, the trampoline park. You asked me if I would be upset if you didn't come and I said no, it's ok. So how would that make me think you were coming? We talked about him being older etc. I didn't send any invites for DGS. It's for him and his friends.
It was also agreed that you wouldn't come over 3 weekends in a row when we made plans for you having DGD.

Okay Cheekymonk. Don't stress about it. Does it really matter? Its not worth getting worked up about really. One thing for sure tho' Sister and i very concerned about you. She told me of about ur call today and was upset and frightened.

It does matter to me though. It seems like you will do what you want to do whether it works for us or not. I'm sorry that I frightened Sister but yes I was angry. I need to concentrate on my own family instead of all these mind games and control. Being told to apologise, being told not to ring. It's too much. Can no one just be straight and truthful?!

You must learn not to get entangled with 3rd party conversations. I have suggested we talk soon, but you clearly are not ready yet. I understand, but if you talk to me in person, we may get somewhere. This texting is not the way forward. I can wait and will do when ur ready x

I know the pattern has always been Sister stirs, we say how we feel, you and I fall out, Sister panics, I have to apologise and grovel, we make up and so it goes on. This time however, it isn't just about what Sister has said. It's about what I have seen and what our family life is. I cannot accept your comments about me not being able to control the children in 'your' house and that they need more discipline and that they aren't like it for you. That was ignorant and nasty. Did you even read the Autism book I have you? DGD tries to be on her best behaviour with you. I haven't even got the support and understanding of my own Mum and have no retreat when it all gets too much here as it does sometimes. You still, in your heart believe me to be bad, no good and troubled but never seem to question why. Yes I was fed, clothed and looked after physically as a child. But I was miserable Mum. A lot. I have moments with the kids, when we are cuddling on the bed or messing about and I don't remember those in my own childhood.There was something missing, an emotional connection and a secure knowledge that I was loved no matter what. I'm just finding it all too much, too overwhelming and hence my questioning of it all.

cheekymonk some of your mums responses are strikingly similar to my Dads. The subtext is YOU are the one with the problem. I will wait to discuss this with you once you've moved on.
FWIW you clearly feel the need to stand your ground here. I did too (his behaviour was intolerable) but it only led to more dysfunction, am now NC.
Ultimately your DM probably just cannot respond in the way you need so you will have to decide whether to come to terms with that or stand your ground.

Thank you for your comments fc. Yes I am trying to stand my ground but as you say, it is leading to more dysfunction. It's not doing me any good! Normally I'm very laid back and don't enforce any boundaries. I also forgot to add to my DMs final response.

Just got the rest of ur text Cheekymonk, very upsetting to say the least and totally untrue. How sad u feel this way and i wish i cud wipe away ur pain. Take comfort in ur own little family and be happy. X

Classic narc, dismissing me saying it is untrue but then wanting to wipe the pain away?! There just is no negotiating is there? I'm trying to decide the way forward. It feels like when I try to defend myself, the narcissicism is ramped up somehow.

Oh cheekymonk - I feel for you. My experience was also that having children woke me up to what was missing from my parents. I was aware of it before but once I had my dd I felt much more outraged on my own behalf because I couldn't km agile treating me child like that. I think the conversations via your sister make it more difficult for you to understand what's going on in your birthday family. She will have a role jn the dynamic. I cant quite follow the text exchange but I feel you are trying to make your mother acknowledge her deficit and I don't think a reasonably intelligent npd person does that because it damages their self image which they prioritise over everything.

Big question to this forum
I'm a long time into nc (now very controlled lc). About 5 years since the nc decision but I was aware of issues in my family for about a decade before that even tho still in fog. I do well now. Very rarely see my npd father and handle that contact using my children of the self absorbed book guidelines.
But...I have a very stressful life. My dd has severe sn. It was my families reaction to this situation that gave me the final push to go nc. My h also has an illness. I feel I have got some habits and ways of dissociating that come from periods of intense stress caring for dd. I see a counsellor regularly because I know my upbringing damaged me and I need more yikes and input to keep myself sorted thsnks I think someone without the emotional neglect I experienced would need. I'm wondering about using other techniques like nlp or hypnosis to try to break some bad habits. For instance I zone out and binge eat a lot. This comes from a time when dd didn't sleep so I was constantly exhausted with no option but to try to keep going. So I would nap whenever I could and relied on overeating. Now sleep oswald much improved but I have a habit of napping that just impacts badly on nighttime sleep.
I'm not prepared using psych techniques to solve problems without unravelling causes. But I think it's know the causes I just need some techniques to break habits. .thoughts?

Should read I'm not pro using psych techniques without understanding causes

Steve IDK - I'm interested in hypnosis and meditation as a way to maybe reprogram some of the habits I have? And maybe also to reconnect me to my feelings - I've got this sort of cheery avoidant escapist thing going on, where I don't really acknowledge any negative feelings at all.

cheeky, what fc and lasttime said. And you're spot on that the narcissism ramps up when you defend yourself. Like lasttime said, to someone with NPD, protecting their own self image comes ahead of everything else. You're kind, you're dealing with her with fair rules, trying to get her to understand. I suspect she's not playing by the same rules - she doesn't want to understand your point of view, she (if she is NPD, and she sounds like she is) wants to star in her own little drama of the perfect mother with the difficult child.

lasttimearound I don't have any answers to your question but I hope someone else does because I'm thinking about that stuff as well. I don't have nearly as stressful a life as you but there have been a few crunch points in the last few years where I looked at how I handled stress and thought, I wish my go-to behaviours were a bit more healthy than this. I also stress eat, and get insomnia - all without actually feeling particularly stressed in my conscious mind. I've started therapy with someone who does this sort of stuff, but we're still at the "tell me about your mother" stage unfortunately.

Sorry so many auto correct errors this morning. Basically looking for experience of more practical and focused techniques to support someone whose already got a good self understanding. I have years of counselling and am pretty clear but suffer from bad habits that return under pressure and stress.

LastTime, sometimes you can change those habits by changing a part of a habit that won't really affect it. If your napping is affecting your sleep at night, maybe don't nap for as long. For example, if you were napping for, say 3hrs, bring it down to 2hrs 45mins for a week, then to 2.5hrs for another week and down again to 2hrs and so on until you're no longer needing a nap, IYSWIM. You seem to have 'trained' yourself to sleep when you could to avoid hospitalisation from exhaustion, so with small increments, you can train yourself to stay awake and sleep better at night.

Regarding the binge eating, you need to find the triggers for this before you can start on a change. By that I mean that you need to figure out what triggers you to eat like this and what doesn't. For example, you indicate that stress is a big part, but there are lots of things in life that cause a lot of stress, so it's finding the main culprits and figuring out how to change them or deal with them more effectively. This could well lessen the general stress slightly, and it may not seem much, but it's a step in the right direction. Once you achieve this, and get into a better frame of mind, you can then work on changing or dealing with the smaller things that are causing stress.

I used to binge eat myself on a lot of shite, but then I took a vow to eat healthier. I swapped junk for nuts, fruit and veg as snacks. I also gradually lessened my portion sizes at meal times. This is because I was deemed healthy and I realised that my body was very efficient in getting the nutrients it needs from just a small amount of healthy food. By doing this, I felt my energy levels rise, I stopped needing a snooze during the day and was happier.

I also got out more and am now training 5 times a week in Muay Thai/Muay Boran. The Kru (the Muay Thai equivalent of a sensei), really puts you through your paces and totally exhausts us, but he is a fantastic instructor. I feel so much better for just getting out of the house and into the fresh air (I walk to class), as well as getting the exercise.

The changes you may have to undergo could well be a whole lifestyle change (healthy eating, exercise, etc) or just altering a few things in your life to help make things a bit better for you. Either way, it's mainly down to figuring out what needs changing, changing things bit by bit, but ultimately you need to tackle the big stuff first and then change the more minor things.

Once you start feeling better in yourself, you may find that you can deal with many of life's stresses (including dealing with your feelings around toxic family/relatives/others). It's getting to the source of the problem and sorting it from there.

Morning!
I wanted to share an insight with you guys, see if anyone relates.
I was just listening to a yesterday and he said a thing, I'm trying to find it just now, but I had to like rewind it and relisten two or three times because I knew there was something important in there, but I couldn't quite figure out what it was.

And what it was, I'm paraphrasing, but he said that there is a thing you might do, if you've been abused, if you have complex PTSD, where you have an emotional flashback, guilt or shame or fear, and then you start trying to figure out what is causing that. And I was like what was that now? What? The bit I recognised was the "searching for reasons", because I do that the whole time, and it's quite damaging, it has been in my life, because I've often felt unhappy in current situations and then gone and changed things because I thought it was the current situation that was causing the problem, and later realised that the problem was the inside of my own head.

But the emotional flashbacks. That was news to me. I've heard of complex PTSD and heard of flashbacks but I always imagined the sort of classic PTSD flashback of episodic memory. I don't get that, in fact I don't remember a whole lot from my childhood at all.

But emotional flashbacks, that makes sense. Suddenly feeling an emotion - guilt, or fear, or shame, and there being nothing in the current situation that explains the depth of feeling you're having. Being reduced to tears or paralysed by fear by something that as an adult you're supposed to be able to laugh off, supposed to be immune to. That is very, very familiar.

Another piece of the puzzle falls into place. It didn't take long for me to realise that two of my big triggers are being laughed at, and (this is very specific!) interacting or even watching someone who is being "nice" and has a smile on their face and suddenly turns nasty, particularly if they say the nasty things in a nice tone of voice. And both of them make total sense to me based on my past.
There was a time with one of my kids when she was laughing at me (and not in a nice way - I think I'd hit my head or something - they never tell you what utterly unsympathetic rotters small children can be!) and I suddenly felt, among a variety of shame emotions, that I was fat - I am overweight but it's not something I usually feel any shame about. Suddenly, this feeling of being a fat, ugly lump. It totally didn't belong to the current situation, and I get why now, it was one of the things my mother used to pick on.

I'm now reading Complex PTSD: from surviving to thriving and it is just such a lovely book, and it's plugged a gap for me. On the one hand I feel like have insight into my childhood and the abuse, and I don't have a continuing codependent relationship with my mother, so I feel like that work is done. On the other hand, I feel like going straight to e.g. CBT and trying to fix my individual behavioural problems is missing the point a bit. I need to understand what effect the abuse has on my feelings now and my habits and behaviour, and how the feelings interact with the behaviour... I think complex PTSD is the missing link.

toomuch - wow, that's a HUGE development. You sound like you've had a real moment of insight into how and why you feel the ways you do. You must be jangling all over with the new understanding! I just wanted to come in to give you a huge hug and to say that, whatever the next step is, you can take it in your own time, and your own way.

Cheers shove! I'd really recommend that anyone on this thread who's struggling with a bunch of symptoms - particularly a harsh inner critic, low self esteem, and unexplainable episodes of low mood/guilt/fear to have a look at it.

toomuch That's really interesting!

I've been having CBT and I got really annoyed after my last session because I can't explain what my triggers are for example I had a panic attack for no reason while out shopping a few weeks ago. My new therapist (changed in the middle of therapy got to love the NHS ) ignored what I was saying about not having a traditional panic attack in that I don't feel like I'm going to die I just kind of detach and leave my body iyswim and I got really annoyed because I don't think CBT can fix the issues I've been on a bit of a depressive spiral since the session but your post makes sense to me!

Off to look into emotional flashbacks see if it fills in one of my holes to you

Sorry for the slow reply. I haven't read every post, so sorry if I am saying what's already been said.

IME they don't tell you that they don't love you , but actions speak louder than words. It has taken me half a century to work that out.

So, what next? Never contact her again, ever? How will I feel about cutting her out of my life when she is dead?

I'm certainly not going to rush into any decisions about the rest of our lives, but for now, all I can say is that it is a relief to know that she almost definitely won't try to call me today and that, even if she does, I don't have to answer.

Just to add, there is one person who has paid the price for what I've been through: DH.

I think I'm ok now, but a few days ago, he said something completely innocuous, and I massively overreacted. DM does something similar, but at the extreme end of the scale. DH's was normal, DM's is not, but I got ridiculously upset with DH about it.
I apologised half an hour later, but its not fair that he has to put up with that.
So, I've still got some calming down to do.

another question: I have a friend who I've not seen in ages. I was due to see her immediately after I last saw DM, but I had to cancel because I wasn't up to it.
I was bursting into tears at least once an hour, just when walking down the street or watching TV. I was shaking and I think the best description is traumatised.
So, I wouldn't have been good company. I told her I'd explain why I had to cancel later. I've put it off and put it off, but I really should call.
What do I say though? "My mother mentally beat me up and left me so shattered I wasn't emotionally strong enough to stop crying"?

Tarbert, maybe this wee song will resonate with you (and others on here)

Tarbert by the time I was about 8 or 9 I decided I didn't like love, and I preferred like - my mother was on the whole time about how much she loved me and that meant she had to (insert really shite controlling thing here). It gave me a very negative view of love.

Regarding your DH and your reaction - it might be that this is just the start of the work you need to do to recover from the abuse. But stopping your mother from abusing you any more - whether it be by NC or by LC, by keeping strong boundaries with her - is the first step.

If you do go NC you might feel guilty when your mother dies. You might feel all sorts of things. IME the most difficult relationships are the ones that are the most difficult to mourn, because you're also mourning the relationship you wish you could have had. But FWIW I don't think you need to feel ashamed if you stay NC until she dies. The people who will judge you for this wouldn't have put one tenth the effort into having a healthy relationship that I bet you have by now.

Did you decide what to say to your friend? Some people are more supportive than others, and IME it's best to be a bit careful in what you reveal, at least at first. You could tell her you and your mother had had a falling out? That does tend to make it sound as if there's fault on both sides, and there's bloody not. But from there you could disclose a bit more if you feel comfortable. What I found was that a surprising number of my friends have a similar parent and totally related. It's like we have some sort of aura of abused kid, or something. With people I don't know well I tend to imply my mother's dead - "I don't really have any family left in (country of origin)." Well it's true, family to me should be people who like you and support you, not people who've fucked you up to make themselves feel better since you were a kid.

Anyway I hope you're OK and it's not all too overwhelming right now.