"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[pocketsaviour]

It's October 2016, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

erinaceus,

re yuour comment:-
"GreenGoth89 an ideal that I am exploring is to meet with my parents in the presence of a professional".

No, please do not do that to yourself. Family therapy with abusive people is an extremely bad idea. They could well manipulate the therapist and encourage that person to take their side.

You are correct; toxic stuff like this can and does go down the generations. Your mother basically repeated with you what was meted out to her as a child rather than seek the necessary help because that is all that she knows and knew. You are not at fault here, you were but a child at the time.

It is also not your fault she is like this, you did not make her that way. I often write that their own families of origin did that lot of damage to them.

To your eternal credit you will not continue that abusive cycle.

Therapy needs to be continued and without them being at all present in any sessions. I strongly urge you not to have either of them there under any circumstances.

Green goth

What good would meeting your dad do, he is not going to apologise nor accept any responsibility for his actions. Such men rarely if ever change and I doubt very much that he has undergone a completely change of personality these last 15 years/

I would not meet your dad under any circumstances either; people who have suggested that and give him a piece of your mind really have no idea. Why break 15 years of NC?. There is no good reason to do so. The whole concept of conduct re familial relations goes out the window when it comes to dysfunctional families.

Would you consider seeing a therapist if you do not already see such a person?.

Ha - currently having issues getting access to suitable therapy! I have had on off therapy for the past 15 years.

Have you tried BACP to date?.

Going through NHS as I can't afford private.

I would still call them in any case.

GreenGoth89 I am so sorry to hear that you have had your father interfere with your interactions with the police. I have heard of this happening in other abuse cases and it makes me so, so angry.

RE the BACP, or any counsellor in private practise, I would be wary also. My experience is that when trauma is complex, depending on the counsellor/therapist, it is devastatingly easy to recreate an echo of the abusive dynamic in the therapy room, in a manner that is really quite distructuve to the patient. This is not to say that all BACP therapists are going to retraumatise you, but, due to the power imbalance inherent in the therapeutic relationship it is possible for this to happen. I found that it was absolutely essential for me to feel in control of the therapy as a process; this concept is not really taken into account in medical models of treatment of MH problems. The NHS is limited in what they are able to provide, so this might be more difficult. However the advantage of NHS support is that the people supporting you do work as part of a team, and my experience is that if you are able to be as candid as you can be with them, and ask that they are transparent with you, then there is help available, albeit not in copious quantities or immediately. I found working with the NHS rather than getting angry at it got my further, but this does involve a sort-of acceptance of the NHS's limitations. There are also a number of charities that might be able to provide more supportive type of counselling at a lower cost, where, again, team-working is part of the therapist's training. thesurvivorstrust.org carries a list of resources, and you may be able to find support through one of the links there, even if the abuse you experienced was not rape or sexual abuse. NACAP have been recommended to me many times and were helpful when I spoke to them on the phone.

Everyone's situation is different, and every route through is different, which is why I am not sure that anyone's advice to another poster should be taken with anything other than a recognition that the advice reflects the poster's situation and experience. This is as true of what I write as it is of anybody else's post. Sending . It is so, so hard.

I'm just sick of living with PTSD!

I am as well, GreenGoth89, I am as well.

Sometimes I cry and cry and cry and feel as if the tears will never end. At the same time, I do not feel like that all the time. It sort of goes in waves.

There are a few threads that I find extremely helpful:

The Pub in Feminist Chat
Derealization/Depersonalisation in MH, where other posters understand dissociation
Emotional (dis)regulation in MH for when my emotions overwhelm me (confession: I started this one. It has helped me enormously.)

Not everyone who comes from a family who were abusive ends up in the MH system, but for those of us who have BTDT to some extent, it can be helpful to meet other people who have experienced similar.

You might find these threads helpful too? I might be repeating myself, that happens sometimes, I forget what I have said to whom, in RL as well as on MN.

Hope I'm ok to join in.

I've been struggling with my sister for years now, she still lives at home (in her thirties just a bit younger than me) so I can't avoid her as I still want to see my parents. She's my sister and I feel bad because I love her, but it's also hard constantly walking on eggshells.

My mum makes excuses for her, and blames it on her mental health conditions. Yes I know they will play a part, but it's not an excuse.

She is very manipulative, and has to get her own way, if she doesn't she will use blackmail to get it, or sulk.

She is very nasty to people, and has said nasty things to me, yet if you pull her up on it she turns it on you. She's allowed to speak how she likes, but she takes everything the wrong way, and you constantly have to be careful what you say, walking on eggshells.

If I tried to stand up to her, my mum would stick up for her, and I would be in the wrong. So it's just easier not too.

She does have OCD and anxiety, and I know how difficult that is, as I do too, but it's not an excuse for being manipulative and nasty.

Growing up I became a people pleaser and realized it's just easier not too say anything. As a result I married the first person who showed an interest in me, and after counseling it pieced it together that he may be a narcissist and emotionally abusive.

I feel bad because I know she has difficulties, my mum has offered her counseling and everything and would pay for anything she needs, her OCD is bad and no one is allowed in her bedroom, she makes my mum clean a seat for her in the lounge/downstairs if she comes down, and lots of things, my mum does enable her, but I know my mum finds it very difficult and just tries to do things as she feels bad.

I feel guilty for feeling like this, as she's my sister, but it's exhausting, and I love seeing my parents, but it's hard feeling constantly on edge.

Sorry that was long, feel better for getting it out though!

And if anyone has advice I would gladly take it

Oh my God, littlemiss - that is so much like my family situation it is uncanny. Similar behaviour as well. Are your parents also like mine - totally absorbed in her situation and her problems, to the point that if you need support, it's just not there?

It is a very, very hard thing to explain to anyone else outside of it. People's reaction tends to be 'butt out!' but when there are MH issues on both sides and one party is exploiting the other, that is very hard to do.

I understand something of what you are going through. for you.

shovetheholly that's EXACTLY what they do! It is very hard to explain, isn't it.

My mum also shares her worries with me about my sister, and my sister moans to me about my mum and I just feel so stuck in the middle.

I've been finding things very difficult recently and really struggling with my husband and his abuse towards me, but I can't talk to them as when I do they just stick up for him and so I don't bother now :(

My sister went through a bad patch last year and I tried to be supportive, but when I almost had a breakdown this summer she just told me I need to just go out, or I just need to eat etc (wasn't sleeping or hardly eating and was at the point I was scared to leave the house) I'm now on anti depressants and got told by my mum it's not good to be on them for long as they can be addictive, I said they are helping me and I don't care if I am on them forever.

My feelings have always been minimized and they are still now by my husband, I always thought it was my fault and it wasn't until I had the counseling that I even realized!

Sorry you are going through the same, it's tough.

I feel like I need to join this thread, as I sit here in tears again after an encounter with my mother. She's always been cold and emotionally distant but since having my dd I felt started to realise the way she is towards me isn't normal.
I don't really know where to start, but will summarise how things stand right now as it might give a glimpse of what I'm dealing with. I'm 24 weeks pregnant, have dd 3 to look after and my husband has just been discharged from hospital after having a kidney infection, 6 weeks before thist husband had a cycling accident and fractured his jaw, so this is the second hospital stay he's had in a few weeks and he needs a lot of care to get back on his feet. It's been very stressful!

Usually my mum will help reluctantly if I beg and might take dd out for an hour or two to give me a break (makes it clear she can't wait to get away though) but with everything that's been going on recently I've been desperate for more support. If I mention I'm feeling stressed/tired/not eating properly she will say she feels the same and has things so much worse. That was literally her response when I said I was feeling awful "so am I, I've been feeling awful for months!...." She acts like a child and doing anything to help her family is a chore. She's incapable of offering any warmth or comfort. She made me have a panic attack the other day with her lack of care (I asked for help and she said she had other things she wanted to be doing that day and behaved as if I was being really unreasonable for asking for support when my husband was in hospital again) and she just stood there telling me to pull myself together. This was in front of dd which makes me feel even worse.

This morning I tried to explain to her again how she makes me feel, she just kept saying things like how ridiculous, I do help you, cheer up etc. Then I asked what would she say if I asked her to come around for the afternoon as I could really do with some company or maybe we could go out for lunch. She replied that she wanted to see her boyfriend later and didn't want to go a day without seeing him etc etc. I said that told me everything I neede to know. I was in floods of tears again and she just doesn't get it.

I feel sorry for her and guilty because I honestly don't think she means to be hurtful, it's like she genuinely cannot see what she's doing. She thinks she is a good mother and grandmother. She does help out now and again but when it comes to an actual crisis she can't deal with it because she's got her own problems apparently. I just cannot imagine being like this with dd if she asked for support.

My DH thinks I need to stop asking her for help and he's probably right. But like I said I feel guilty. And also worry that I wouldn't cope if she didn't have dd once in a while so I could get a break. I worry about how all this is affecting dd. There's so much more I want to say. She's been like this my whole life really but it feels worse now as it really highlights her lack of care when I'm having a tough time.

My inlaws are great but they live abroad. I don't see my dad very often but DH thinks I should talk to him about it all because he probably thinks I have enough help. My dad has also suffered as a result of my mother, he was ill with depression for years and my mum would tell him to pull himself together etc, belittle him. He left her 2/3 years ago and is like a different person.

Growing up I remember mum always worrying about what other people thought of her, running people down to make herself feel better. She never praised me or told me I'd done well. Never interested in my academic achievements. She used to always tell me I had inherited her fat legs and was quite competitive when it came to appearance and weight, I use to get sucked into this when I was younger which is really fucked up. She used to mock people a lot and was jealous of anyone doing well, this included my aunts/uncles and as a result my brothers and I are quite distant from the rest of the family as we never got involved in family get togethers. I resent my mum for this now I'm older.

I just feel really sad that our relationship is this way and I really wish she would change. Sorry this is ridiculously long but it's been building up for a while.

Just discovered this thread. I love the title. It reflects what my in laws said to DH when he had had enough of putting up with their manipulative behaviour: 'Just think what the Tennis Club will say.'

Marjory your mum sounds a bit like mine. Not interested in anything unless it's to do with her, puts other people down to make herself feel better. Only with her she's obsessed with her own intelligence and claims not to care what she looks like. I think deep down she does as she makes snide comments about my appearance and even told me I was still a bit chubby after losing weight a getting down to a size 6. I was a size 10 to start with and not even overweight. Funnily enough she also said I'd inherited her fat legs.
I've spent so many years trying to be the daughter I thought she wanted and crying myself to sleep over her treatment of me. I always assumed that I would understand her better once I'd had my own children, I don't.
I've come to accept that I can't change her and after reading posts here and some of the links on this thread I'm convinced she's a narcissist.
I think your husband is right in suggesting that you no longer ask her to do anything for you as it seems it just leaves you feeling awful when she doesn't.
I no longer expect anything of my mum or get involved beyond small talk as I don't want to get dragged in. I'm definitely happier as a result and have realised that I don't need her and I don't particularly like her.
You probably need to except that she won't ever change and decide based on that what kind of relationship you want with her.
It makes things more difficult when your going through a tough time anyway and could do with some support. It does sound like she's making things worse for you though rather than better.
Hope your husband has a speedy recovery and you can take some time to find your way through this.

littlemiss - Oh you poor love, that sounds really, really tough and absolutely horrible. I think that going through domestic abuse at the same time as trying to survive dysfunctional family relationships is incredibly tough. Maintaining your sense of dignity and inner worth is so difficult when everyone close to you is so neglectful and negating.

I'm glad you have been to the doctor and a counsellor - you have been incredibly strong just to survive all this, and you need all the help you can get in shoring up your sense of identity and self-respect.

As far as families are concerned, it is so painful constantly being on the outside just hoping that one day you might get a crumb of affection or recognition. Sadly, I don't think for either of us that is ever likely to happen. The dysfunction depends on our exclusion, and no amount of support will lead to reciprocity. So it becomes about how we accept and live with that. I don't have any answers to this, I wish I did. It's what I'm going to a counsellor for.

for you.

dear old shove , you talk sense

shovetheholly just having someone who understands is worth more than you could know

I'm finding it very hard to accept that my husband is abusive in particular, and keep putting it back on me and minimizing how bad it is. I think people have it worse than me. It's difficult when you do try and open up to your family and they don't give support.

DS1 has just had his case accepted by CAMHS for the ASD pathway, so that's going to be a long a difficult journey. Thankfully I have support from elsewhere, friends, and a fantastic charity for parents. My husband keeps telling me 'don't worry about it' thanks for your support there! And my mum just said oh no there's nothing wrong with him he's not autistic (I've told her about going for the referral and why). I'm just glad the professionals can also see my concerns.

LittleMissUpset I really feel for you. My father minimised the MH problems of me and my sisters for years and years, and it was a struggle for my parents to work jointly with the professionals supporting me and/or my sisters because my parents' own senses of identity because caught up in their relationships with the professionals who were caring for us. It sounds as if in your case you are more self-aware than my parents were.

In hindsight I am incredulous at the constant, caring attitude of CAMHS and AMHS in the face of what from the outside must have looked like something of a confusing family dynamic - or maybe they had seen it all before? Probably, sadly.

Sending to you. Having been brought up in such a weirdly dysfunctional environment, I find it difficult to recognise the patterns of disfunction in my current relationships, such as recognising that I am not obliged to tolerate bullying behaviour from colleagues, or even from DH, who can go down that line when he is drunk or stressed himself (not v helpful) or that my own parents are minimising my distress and that of my family.

Sending best wishes to your son, also. I don't know if it helps but I know many children and adults who have ASD (the words that are used to describe it changed over the decades) who are excellent people to be around, although parenting must be hard at times I do have a "some of my best friends have Aspergers" sort of attitude to it; no idea if that is helpful or not.

Please can other estranged posters tell me a bit about what signs and safeguards they would want in place before considering trying to resume relations.

We have been estranged from DH's parents for a decade for very good reasons that I won't bore you with. At the start it was extremely stressful. They did everything they could to destroy our relationship with everyone we care about by telling vicious lies. They sent DH abusive e-mails at work, which affected his ability to do his job well and resulted in him having to get their e-mail addresses blocked. In the end he felt he couldn't continue working there and needed a fresh start.

They say they want to try to sort things out again. The trouble is that they have done this a couple of times before (not recently), but it has quickly become apparent that nothing has changed. How do we work out if things have changed this time?

We are under a lot of pressure to let them meet and have a relationship with our children. We want to hold back on that until we feel comfortable in each other's company (if that ever happens), but we are being accused of denying them their grandchildren. Are we putting up barriers that will prevent us from being able to sort things out, or are we protecting our children from unnecessary heartache if things don't work out? What timeframe should we give (if any)? Our kids are too old not to be aware of tensions, but too young for us to explain things to. We have plenty of other family and they have never asked about the existence of DH's parents, so it is not an issue we have faced yet.

The trouble is the whole issue is putting DH off doing anything. He has a demanding job and, now we have a family to support, he doesn't want a repeat of last time. He needs to be able to relax and recuperate at weekends and he isn't sure he has the emotional energy for a rerun. On the other hand, if things really have changed, the prize of a loving family would be huge. I am worried I have accidentally got us into a situation where he feels obliged to give things another go, when he doesn't want to and when it is going to cause yet more upset.

This post lacks direction, but any thoughts would be helpful.

Genevieva,

re your comment:-
"They say they want to try to sort things out again. The trouble is that they have done this a couple of times before (not recently), but it has quickly become apparent that nothing has changed. How do we work out if things have changed this time?"

I can tell you now, they have not changed and you cannot reason with the unreasonable. They are just trying to get under your skin again. Block all and each means of them contacting you as of now. NC is precisely that; there is no real way of them being able to contact you. Radio silence from you must be maintained. Any contact from you gives them an "in" to bother you even more otherwise.

Toxic people like your DHs parents do not fundamentally alter; their actions are all still about wanting and having power and control over you and this time as well via your children. These people were not good parents to your DH, such people often turn out to be toxic grandparents to your children as well.

They have not apologised nor accepted any responsibility for their actions either have they?. Such people really do not ever do this.

You have been NC for a decade for very good reason; I would maintain the no contact position and keep your children well away from them as well. You do not need such toxic people in your lives.

Ignore also any well meaning but useless "flying monkeys" who put pressure on you as well to try again.

Thanks randomer, that warmed my cockles!

littlemiss said "I think people have it worse than me".

I think this is actually quite a corrosive thought, expressed in certain ways.

Of course, there's always someone who has had it worse. You can always point to someone who went through more, who was more hurt, who had a tougher time. While it can be a good thing to retain a sense of perspective about minor things, it is actively unhelpful to minimise long term abusive relationships with the idea that, because you're not not Elisabeth Fritzl, you don't have anything to be upset about. When someone is suffering precisely because they haven't had love or recognition when they were young, to tell them to count their blessings or that others have it worse feels just like another rejection, another failure to 'see' you.

To all of you with abusive partners, I say something absolutely bleeding obvious: it does not have to be this way. You do not have to put up with this. You deserve to be loved, and you are loveable.

I am just back from my first session with a new counsellor. Like other first sessions, it was mainly just me telling my story for an hour, without much resolution. The counsellor seems good, though, and I hope will be a decent fit for me - I am determined to keep the space absolutely honest, though, so I am going in with caution. I feel quite exhausted now!! It is my DH's birthday, so I am spending this afternoon cooking him a slap up meal.

Flying monkeys is a new term for me. I am guessing it refers to individuals chosen to get us to comply. Before that they used to have to write letters and even the handwriting would make my DH shake.

They haven't apologised properly. One of them wrote a very empty sentence in an uninvited e-mail about being sorry if anything they have done has upset DH. They got our e-mail address through a third party.

We haven't seen any sign of affection yet and I think they are still angry with us for not complying and keeping up appearances. Yet, despite that, I think they enjoyed being the centre of tennis club gossip for a short time, before everyone got bored and moved on. I don't think they are motivated by their social lives now. I think they genuinely do want to know our kids, which is understandable, but unfortunately, I thing they are also determined to 'win' as if we are their adversaries.

The trouble is that, while I think they are the greater losers, the peace we gain by being NC is not 100 positive. There are family members whose company we really enjoyed and who we rarely see now because it is just too sticky. Plus, they are retired and have more time to invest in those relationships at our expense. We have managed to improve some of these relationships since then and the wider family have been genuinely shocked by their treatment of DH, but they just brush things under the carpet and hope that we can get back to 'normal'.

At the moment I genuinely don't know if we can do that. I think maybe we need to talk about hurt and trust issues. I think we probably need them to tell other people that they lied about us. I think we probably need an apology for preventing us from seeing dying relatives right at the ends of their lives, even though we had maintained our own relationships with them. I don't think any of this will be forthcoming, but I would love to find a way of making it happen as I think we would all be better off if we reached that point.

You are probably right though - they haven't shown any capacity for change so there is not reason to risk the benefits of what we have. In the past they have left DH unable to feel loved. Which sounds really weird I know, because love is not something you can touch, but it was like, however much love you poured on him, it just ran off and left him standing, dry as a bone. We have a really strong relationship which he is very dependant on and he is much better now.

Hi, I was pointed to this thread and wanted to post before I lost track of it.

I recently read the 'If You Had Controlling Parents' book and it fit my folks to a T. Currently just started 'Toxic Parents'. One thing I've noticed is there appears to be a lot about narcissitic mothers, but it is my father who is the narcissitic one. I've realised that he doesn't do anything unless its for him. Even giving my DD gifts is about him, not her, and has in fact created problems with the massive amounts of stuff he's loaded us with. My mother is... I'm not even sure. She's a sweet lady, but has major MH issues which have gotten worse in the last decade, and I think she may be developing dementia, and really isn't the person she used to be at all. Her entire life appears to be focussed on me, and her happiness tied to mine, which feels a great burden. I mostly just don't tell her much as she can't handle it (if I cough during a talk with her, she'll ask about it for months, all concerned), and have gotten pretty skilled at identifying what seemingly-innocuous things can incorporate into her version of reality in bad ways. I eventually did tell them about my chronic illness, hoping that it would stop the pattern of our conversations being nothing but them giving me directives of what I should be doing. Unfortunately it hasn't, and has only made my mother ask regularly if I'm 'better' yet (it's a life-long condition, I won't be).

Wow, hadn't meant to go on so much! Anyway, I am hoping that I might pick up some tips on how to deal with them, as I use up more emotional energy than I want to being affected by their behaviour.

Hi,

I am new to this thread but posted a thread about my family (mainly my dad) in the summer, under a different nickname. We were all on holiday together in America (an incredibly bad decision on my part) and my dad's abusive behaviour led me to cut short the holiday and I haven't seen him since. My son was with us (he's four), and my dad was shouting about what a nasty piece of work I am and how ds should know what kind of person his mother is. This all blew up out of nowhere around the dinner table, I literally had not said or done anything to provoke it and I know everyone was shocked at the time but I believe my dad suffers from some kind of paranoia.

To summarise the family briefly, my sister and I were adopted as young children (different families of origin). Our adoptive parents did and do have some good qualities but as I've grown older it's become apparent to me how abusive and dysfunctional a lot of things were. They were both excessively strict and controlling, but the bigger issue was my dad's volatile temper. On different occasions I remember him trashing things in my room (including a computer), throwing them out of the bedroom window and then back in through the window at me. Hitting round the face on a few occasions, putting me in the car and driving like a maniac around country lanes where we lived, which terrified me. Often ranting about things not being 'good enough', perceived disrespect, calling me lazy, a bitch, a coward, a nasty piece of work. When he found out I'd lost my virginity to my boyfriend of a year (at age 17) he told me I was a cheap tart who had sex with the first boy who swung his dick at me. Threatening to throw me out of the house and to stop paying my school fees if I didn't do x y or z, generally using money as a form of control and being a dictator, being very aggressive and threatening when angry.

My mum would try to smooth things over but always always took his side, never stood up to him for me or my sister, and would basically tell me not to make him angry.

So that's the background really. After coming home from the holiday, my sister has basically ignored me. This is after begging to come back with me, I paid for her ticket and the minute we got back to the airport she just began being unpleasant out of nowhere, couldn't get away fast enough and hasn't been in touch because she apparently doesn't want to get involved. She sent me a text a week or so ago asking me to drop ds off with my parents on a particular date that she will be there as she is missing him. Not a word about me, the two of us meeting up, doing something with ds together, wondering how I was etc. I didn't reply and was mulling it over (the date is in November). She then accused me of being nasty and 'witholding' ds, using him as a 'weapon', using him to bully and control her (I'd like to know how as we haven't been in touch?), and said she would go to the full extent of the law and social services if she has to (i.e. to gain access).

I had no problem whatsoever with her seeing my son, I hadn't replied but I hadn't definitely decided whether to go along with her request I just can't understand why she is choosing to cut me out of the equation and can't treat me like a human being, in which case seeing her nephew is something that would arise far more naturally anyway.

The following day she emailed me a link (and copied in my mum) entitled 'ways in which narcissistic adults victimise their parents using grandchildren' or something like that. The link had various points about narcissists being filled with rage, fixing you with an empty stare, gaslighting and playing the victim... can't remember all of it. I haven't responded. It's just so unkind given that she knows what we've grown up with, she witnessed my dad's appalling behaviour and has talked to me about it and fully agreed with me, and is now accusing me of harbouring irrational rage and blame against them and trying to stop them seeing their grandchild. By the way my partner has taken him to see them every one to two weeks for visits, so that doesn't fly in any case. I just don't understand why she has decided to turn on me like this and it's so bloody insulting being accused of that and having my valid feelings made out to be part of some kind of disorder and nasty attempt to victimise everyone.

Sorry this was long, I tried not to make it too convoluted but I would really appreciate some support from people who understand about these types of families as it's not something I can really share with people in real life very easily.