"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[pocketsaviour]

It's October 2016, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Im NC with my parents after years of innappropriate behaviour and manipulation. I couldnt see it at the time, but they have bullied and guilt tripped me for years. For reasons i dont understand i felt i needed their approval. They stepped over so many boundaries i stopped noticing. Now that we are NC im having trouble working out how to maintain boundaries with my wider family. Im not inassertive, i just think theyre not used to me not giving in, and are also pushy anyway! What do i do?

Thank you, I known that you are right that true NC would not mean allowing the children to go, I just feel terribly guilty that they have no family but me!!! Also my self esteem is rock bottom so to me they have v little. How do I stop the yearning for a ' perfect happy family'.
This sounds nuts, but I watch This Morning and hear Phillip Schofield talk about his relationship at home with his wife and kids and I am just drawn to him because of it. I have done it all my life, I realised all the men I have dated or obsessed about were because I needed a father and they seemed to fit the bill. I tried to turn friendships built on weeks of knowing someone into deep family connections. How do I stop? I don't yearn for a mother tho, for someone reason I just want this one to change.

I'm dreading Christmas. We've been manipulated into going over for the morning, but am now getting the cold shoulder because my DH seems to have crossed a line by setting out some (very reasonable, imo) boundaries (basically Lucky is entitled to enjoy a birthday without being dragged into your life). DH isn't scared of her as I am, and is trying to have a dialogue with her, but she keeps calling me instead. I now don't know if we'll be going over there. We don't want to, but then I don't want to be hated. This is a window into my childhood - constantly being wrong-footed and feeling fearful. It's like the veil is lifting, and I see that my DH has my interests at heart, and my father's wife completely disregards them. My father has enabled this for 35 years, but he's in no position for me to pull him up on this. His dementia has got to the point where he thinks he has two wives, so that ship has sailed; I wish I'd started therapy sooner.

Upthread I described by Dad's wife as a Narc. I'm not sure how accurate that is. As a child I experienced a lot of anxiety in response her sarcasm and moodiness, but I wouldn't say she was grandiose. She's very passive aggressive and is often rather dead-eyed. People sometimes find her a little sinister or wierd. Since my father developed my dementia and I've been roped into help, I've realised that being ignored was a blessing. She now has absolutely no respect for my boundaries - calling me at work (I don't answer) and whenever I'm away somewhere. It's intrusive and unbearable. The reason I describe her as a Narc is that she idolises my younger half-sister, yet undermines her attempts to move out of the family home. Surely a healthy parenting relationship is about supporting your child's independance? I feel really bad for my sister - she's lovely but very enmeshed with her mother. Any thoughts?

^not my dementia! I really should preview messages.

lucky I dont think you can call her a narc for that. But you can call her a selfish and unpleasant woman!

People like that, their love can be consuming ... in the sense that they stifle the life of the people they love. They can't bear to let go and to let someone fly free, because they 'love' them and want them around .. but this 'love' is more about their need than the beloved's.

In a sad way, it's the people who are the beloved children who have it harder than the outcast children, because it's so very, very much harder to see past the stifling parental 'love'. They never can come to realise that this 'loving' parent is actually holding them back. The outcast children long for love, but have an easier time to see things clearly. The golden children have to step away from all that 'love' first, and it's so hard to walk away from a parent's love that it's almost impossible.

your DH sounds like a real good 'un.

Lucky, someone who is on the covert or vunerable narc side can really mess with your head. You walk on egg shells, get upset but have nothing concrete to pin it on. It's very hard to go to the other person and say look you did this and here is the evidence.

I once had a boss who was awful. It was a 3 month contract that kept getting extend so at first I was a spectator looking in. He was widely regarded in the company as a fun person but working there and the cracks showed. He has a nice exterior and eldlessly told me about his nice holidays, nice house and nice family. Not into fancy holiday, big cars or bling, just nice. But if anyone tried to say anything about their lives he got bored and walked away , or declared it was time to get back to work. The nice family turned out to be full of conflict with his daughters. The reasons he would give were their controlling partners, and of course he was only concerned about them because they had always been difficult. It was amazing to see someone confide with his staff about his "worry" for a daughter and portray himself as a great Dad whlist you know he was a controlling arse.

I sat there for months hearing him explain to new full time staff what a friendly department we were, in fact we were like family! He had them all crying or in front of HR within weeks. They were confused, had no idea what they had done wrong and nothing that they could pin on him. He would give them a job, then critic it loudly in front of the team. He would randomly decide they had been too long making coffee would send someone to get them, because he was concerned they had fainted! He would work himself up and bitch bitch behind their back. Of course they would pick up on this, he would stop talking as they came in, finish with big glare at them and hushed voice. Then give them the silent treatment. When asked he would tell them that nothing was wrong.

He would spend hours a day moaning and working himself up about other teams because they didnt meet his standards. If another manager disagreed with him he would desolve into a steaming, festering pile of victim. You never knew what mood he would be in, happy, angry or sulking? HR and his line manager started to catch on to him and of course he became a victim and would gather little groups about him and cry about how he was bullied as a child and how iit was happening again " Oh, I feel sick. OH I feel faint".

The company wanted me to become a manager in a new team that would work closely with his. I lasted a few months before deciding not to transfer from being a contractor. He decided I was the enemy and started to focus his passive aggresive shit my way. I ended up crying iin my car every night but couldn't really say what he had done. There were so many of his tricks in the background and whispering.

My mother's a covert narcissist and the way the grandiose bit works with her is that while she's never done anything exceptional, she believes that her standards (way more exacting than anyone else's) mark her out as special. For example she's never tried having a job beyond the most basic no-responsibility minimum wage positions because to take responsibility would mean accepting compromise in the way she likes things done - if she's told what to do she can do it perfectly and remain perfect. Similarly we were the perfect family, we had to look and behave perfectly, and then it was all smiles and fake niceness until you once put a foot wrong and then it was hours of ranting and raving, days of silent treatment, that sort of thing. But although the surface looked different to the typical narc with grandiose fantasies the rest of it remained the same - they think they're the only person with emotions, they think your needs and wants must be the same as yours, they need you to walk on eggshells and edit reality for them on a minute by minute basis...

A couple of links about covert narcs: here and here.

Krampus it's amazing how a narc can utterly ruin a workplace isn't it? I had that a few years back, my narc boss was promoted to department head just before I went off on maternity leave and when I returned it was like Hobbiton after Saruman, I swear to god. The working atmosphere was poisonous, people who'd been lovely were really wound up and tense and paranoid, people would lie to cover their backs and all sorts. I think it would benefit HR departments if they could identify people like this and sideline them (I recently heard that she's moved on so yay for my ex-colleagues but she'll be away ruining someone else's life now, they just go from one disaster to another).

I'm so upset.

Have never posted on here (as in this thread) before but I'm so angry.

I am a LP with DC. I left my abusive exh a few years ago and he is not in contact. I see my parents quite a lot and mostly it is fine. Sometimes however I get so fucking upset.

We were round these today and my Dad yelled SO loudly at my DS over something trivial and then laughed. He does this every so often and knows fine that DS will run off and hide his face in shame as he's so upset but doesn't want to cry in front of people. He's 3. I said don't do that, it undermines me, but he still does it. My parents go off on one every so often about how i need to smack or shout at DS despite knowing my views that he will NEVER besmacked.

He's 3. He's well behaved and very very clever. Why do they do this?

We had a very strict religious upbringing and though they've mellowed in recent years every so often things like this happen and it makes me angry and upset.

My son is so outgoing as opposed to the shy, quiet, sensitive child that I was.

I don't know how to explain it but I feel so bamboozled that they think it's okay to shout at a 3 year old and find it funny.

Squirmy I don't think it matters why they do it, what matters is what you do in response. IMO you need to make it clear to them that it's unacceptable to treat your little boy this way and that there will be consequences if they carry on like that. And if they do carry it on - follow through with the consequences.
You sound like you're a lovely parent, don't let them undermine you.

First of all - squirmy - that's really mean behaviour from your Dad - I would definitely call him out on it and make it very clear that it isn't to happen again. I guess his reaction to that will be very telling. I would hope that he would then apologise to your DS...I suspect that won't be the case though :(.

I've NC for this - back to one similar to one I used to post this 18 months ago www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2430548-Is-this-Triangulation. The summary of that thread was that after years of suspecting I had come to the realisation that all was not well with the dynamics in DH's family and the PIL were most definitely triangulating the relationship between DH and his sister, amongst other things.

Sadly, things have more on to be much more deeply confirmed. MIL sabotaged a meet up between DH and his sister (and all their children, me etc) in spectacular fashion a year ago. To cut a long story short DH and his sister's relationship is even more strained and we are LC with the PIL (their mask really fell once we absolutely refused to engage in/listen
to any negative talk about anyone this last 18 months - bizarre letters, the works).

I am using terms like triangulation, mask etc but - to be clear - I don't think that either of the PIL have full blown NPD or close. I do think they both have a lot of traits of covert narcissism though - in different ways but enable each other. It seems that SIL is the golden child and DH is the scapegoat (who surprised them massively by actually achieving more post school that SIL) despite calling SIL a bitch on occasion. Hell knows what they call DH/us though!

I've had counselling (realising that I really wasn't coping with all this and that probably stems from my own more obviously dysfunctional upbringing - but at the root of that was great sadness) which has definitely helped in seeing the FOG, making DH and I much closer again but maybe not fully getting out of it.

PIL are coming for Christmas day (they come every other year - they decided this years ago). DH, who prefers to not mention them at all most of the time (there are the few odd alcohol fuelled moments where he has a full-on rant and sometimes cries about it though) commented that he is 'dreading it'. So am I.

So we barely see them now (as we stopped making any effort - and they never did unless we were entertaining them - not even to see the GC) but they insist on being here for our 'high days' - like some kind of tick list. I really, really resent it now!

Not sure where I'm going with this now...Just sad that things are like this and annoyed that we are STILL allowing them to have this power over us. It is quite ridiculous how much we allow (and I get this is very much our problem and not them) them to drain us - it is every day even though we only see them every 6-8 weeks! ARGH!! Think we should plan to go away in two years and break this cycle at least and/or somehow get to a place where it just doesn't bother us.

Thank you toomuch and overwhelming.

I burst into tears in front of my DC today about 20 minutes after it happened and just feel so wretched.

He did go and give my son a cuddle after it happened and was all lovey dovey but didn't actually say sorry. I suspect they both had pretty warped backgrounds even though are 'naice' people etc etc but I don't want to put my son through crap like that. He is such a sweet little boy.

Fucking hate other people.

Squirmy

You would not have tolerated this from a friend, your parents are no different.

Do not reward bad behaviour; show them that there are indeed consequences for their actions.

I would keep your son well away from his grandparents altogether particularly if your dad cannot bring himself to apologise for his behaviour. Your dad's own dysfunctional upbringing along and with the strict religion has all conspired into making him like this. Its not your fault they are the ways they are; you did not make them that way.

What sort of parents were they to you, they could well become similar sort of grandparents to your child. Such people do not change.

Overwhelming

I would seriously now cancel PILs visit to yourselves particularly if you are both dreading it.

Your own FOG (fear obligation and guilt) is affecting you and your H here; has he had any counselling re his dysfunctional parents?. They are still exerting their own power and control over you by insisting that they are there for your high days.

Where are your boundaries now with regards to these people; can you further cut down you seeing each other every 6-8 weeks?.

I would also consider moving away if it is at all possible; you need to have physical distance as well as mental distance when it comes to people as disordered of thinking as your DHs parents.

Narcissistic people always but always need a willing enabler and his parents certainly have that in each other. If his parents are both covert narcissists this is indeed very bad news for your H and you people as his own family unit now. You need to further protect yourselves from such people because they do create an awful lot of emotional harm to all those around them. Your H and his sister have been both profoundly affected by their parents to their overall detriment.

Overwhelming, it is interesting that you say your DH feels they should come over 'every other year' for Christmas as though it is some written down rule. . My DH is the same, his parents don't even like Christmas but he will not hear of being more flexible with Christmas arrangements and can't really explain why other than that's 'just the way it is'.
I have managed to wangle every third year is us on our own but it resulted in tantrums from ILs the first year and attempts to persuade DH down to them for Christmas using emotional blackmail. While he is normally pretty obliging to them he did on that occasion just say no and I am proud of him for that.
We are going this year and the bonkers fussing has already started. It is crap, I am sorry.

Thank you Attila and ethelb

DH has not had any counselling, and I very much doubt whether he would - although I have suggested he does a few times. He was very aware that most of the sessions I had revolved around issues with the ILs (despite, on paper, much more profound childhood issues with my own FOO) and, if I opened up at all about what I had talked about he was always very interested to know what the counsellor thought about x, y and z. I explained it didn't really work like that but, yes, I had definitely received validation that it was a toxic dynamic.

DH fought quite a few boundaries battles with them long before I came on the scene - mercifully - one of the most dramatic was, in fact, over Christmas and went on for months apparently. He did explain the issues he had had in the past at the start of our relationship but, I was quite sceptical if I'm honest - and brushed it off as normal family ups and downs. I unwittingly was used as a flying monkey in the early days - how clearly I see it now!

My mum died when I was little and my dad was violent and neglectful at times (I don't mean the odd smack - I mean strangulation/kicking in the head over the smallest of things like accidently spilling a drink) - he then panic married my step mum who came with her own issues and things got worse rather than better. Mercifully, a wonderful family quietly took me under their wing (and I am still safely there) when my mum died and I have a fantastic older brother - so whilst I didn't emerge into adulthood unscathed the damage wasn't as bad as it could've been.

I've put in the above to illustrate in part why I think his FOO have affected me so much and why I didn't want to see/didn't believe what he was telling me. He was placing his sister firmly in the #1 spot for blame back then though and his parents as naïve victims for the most part, so I think we have both had our eyes opened a lot over the last decade - especially when the GC came along and their differing treatment based on parentage became obvious. I believe we have protected the DC from realising that though - DC believe that the GP are great for the most part (DS did pick up on a horrible remark that FIL made last year and pulled him up on it himself, and then commented to me about it afterwards) and it is perfectly normal to see them so little.

Sorry - I am going on and on!

Boundaries. We have got better and better at this I think. I've rang up the PIL and said no to outrageous demands made of DH on his behalf before (with his consent). It didn't go down well and then the request was withdrawn on the basis that they had decided to do something else and that wouldn't work for them now rather than agreeing that yes it was unsafe/unfair/unnecessary for DH to do that. I have definitely been labelled as 'difficult' as a result. Would love to give an anecdote here but forever fearful of being outed...DH had told them not to ring him during the working day or pop round unannounced - they make a nod to that but then ignore it anyway (i.e. they will ring to see if we are in and if we don't answer the phone come round anyway or send an email rather than ringing during the working day but if we don't answer it within an hour they will then ring).

I actually invited them for Christmas dinner - because I hoped in doing that I would avoid all the usual silly games which always leads to them coming for Christmas dinner anyway (as they had always planned - and said as such several years ago - the silly games were down to me as I rebelled against it, and I wanted to put a stop to that). So, yes, I see my mistake here now as it didn't work - all the bad feelings and dread are there the same as usual. Tried it - didn't work - just need to learn and move on from that now. We will suck it up now as the damage is already done - whether they come or not. I'll just make myself up a nice PA remark bingo card to relieve the stress of waiting for the next comment.

I daydream about moving away - but we are very settled here - in our forever home, which we have spent too much on, and have lots of lovely friends. We're just going to have to learn to manage this better - I thought we were but it just keeps surprising me how deeply these feelings go. Some of the things they have said and done I would actually describe as cruel now, given my background and the benefit of some extra years.

Ok - reading this back to myself I can see how much FOG we still have and how our boundaries need even more work. DH needs to lead on this though - I can see how I have added to the FOG over the years by encouraging him to do things that he didn't want to do with them rather than supporting him in saying no. I thought I had stopped...lightbulb moment .

Made the decision to cut contact with my immediate family (parents and siblings) again.

Just come out the end of a pretty traumatic couple of months (not all family related but a relative is dying of cancer) and in a round about way it has put a huge magnifying glass on my family relationships and just how harmful it is to me.

I've blocked all their numbers, deleted them from FB and I'm not making any effort to do anything with them for the next few months.

I was shrugging when my step-fathers (my abuser) photo came up on FB because a sibling shared it. But really, deep down it cuts deep to see him 'happy' given what he did.

My mother was, still is, his enabler even though they are divorced and she still has rose tinted specs on with regards to what has happened.

The final straw for me was her confession that she married my step father because she was too scared to be a single parent. Effectively blaming me with her careful use of words.

My birthday was a few weeks before I decided to cut contact and everyone forgot. I was furious, sad.. and it brought up a lot of memories from my childhood. Silly things like never remembering having had a birthday cake or a party but clearly remembering my sister did.

The sort of emotional neglect that people find very difficult to believe. There was physical abuse too and I did fall into an EA relationship shortly after leaving home but now I am mostly level and just in need of a crazy about of hand holding over this xmas because I don't want to slip back into old habits.

I want to start the new year fresh and on my own (Probably a rash decision but I intend to leave my partner too for a whole host of other reasons - Lies, no trust, he broke my heart) and I worry I am doing it all too fast but I don't want my partner to be a crutch because I've ditched my family nor my family because I've ditched him. Two feet, I shall stand on them no matter how hard it is.

Hi all - long time lurker but first time I've had the courage to post here.

We are NC with DH's family (6 months in). DH had an extemely traumatic childhood, PA and EA, and is in intensive therapy at the moment. The problem we are facing is that his 'D'M will not stop sending gifts, despite DH being very clear that he will not respond to communication. So this Xmas she has sent nearly £200 of gifts, mostly in voucher form, but two are subscription based and so will act as a monthly reminder of her (unwanted) presence in our lives. She has always used gifts to buy favour and they always come with strings attached. We now shred cheques and physical gifts are given away to charity, but cancelling the subscriptions is more difficult as she will inevitably be notified, and will read this as a form of response from us. She'll then use this as 'evidence' of our unkindness and cruelty to her (she is NPD if you hadn't guessed) and it will probably send the flying monkeys in (her other children who are completely unable to see the dysfunction).

I know this is DH's fight, not mine, but I guess I was hoping for wisdom from others who have gone NC on how to handle this aggressive form of gift giving. He's going to have to tell her no more gifts, isn't he? As long as she thinks we are receiving and using her gifts, it's proof that there is still some kind of relationship there, and once she's got a foot in the door, she's unstoppable in her desire to control and possess our lives.

Any help or advice?

Betty good for you. I hope the new year brings you some peace and relief. It sounds like you've really been through the wringer this year.

santa I suspect your MIL knows fine well that her gifts are unwelcome but if she can get a response from you then it's well worth stepping all over your boundaries.
I don't think your DH needs to tell her to stop with the gifts - I think that will be a bit of a reward for her, as it'll be active communication. The only reason I can see would be if he wants to be able to demonstrate to the flying monkeys that he's asked her to stop. But ultimately you both can and should give up worrying what his mother and the flying monkeys think of you both. You can't win with them, they'll read into your actions whatever they want.
As for the subscriptions - as you've already received cheques from her and not cashed them, she already knows you're not accepting her gifts, so I don't think cancelling the subscriptions is giving her any more response than that.

I would go ahead and cancel the subscriptions or, if possible, change the address so that they go to someone else instead (that would like them - magazines I presume?). PITA though - a choice of gift well thought out for this reason I dare say :(

Betty - sounds like you have made a wise decision - you sound very determined. Life really is too short to surround ourselves with people who drain us.

Thanks @sung and @toomuchtooold

He has cancelled one sub and will probably redirect the other one. As predicted a flying monkey got in touch today with a bribe to try and make DH reconcile with the family this Christmas (think envelope full of cash). It would be farcical if it wasn't so sad - in the absence of any real relationship they resort to bribery. It's gone in the circular filing cabinet as usual (aka the bin).

Been lurking on this thread for a bit, posting now as beginning to feel the weight of Christmas approaching, haven't associated it with being happy really since I was a small child and didn't know any better.

NC with DF for more than 2 years and can't see that ever changing, he said and did some nasty things leading up to that point
NC with DM and her partner for nearly a year (since last Christmas Day, in fact) and mixed feelings about that
Lone parent, DD has never had contact with her DF (not my choice) so no family there
Not got many other people around us due to my own MH issues, which are probably mixed and I know I take active steps without always meaning to, to withdraw and keep the world out, it just seems easier that way

Am making a New Year's resolution to find a therapist, and find a way to afford a private one, to straighten my head out. NHS has been passing me from pillar to post for so long and no help. Those on here who have been to a private therapist, where did you find a good one and how long did you see them for, how often?

My abusive family would tell me they loved me as if that made everything okay. I don't care if they 'love' me or not. I don't love or like them. They are terrible people and I just don't want to be anything like them or have anything to do with them. That is my worst fear. They are just abusive and they are saying that as a way to try to guilt me and minimise their abuse. Like how can I be so ungrateful and say I was abused if I have a 'loving' family who 'cares' about me when some people don't have any family. They are so stupid they don't understand it's the same thing. I seriously wish I grew up in an orphanage rather than with them any day. I wish I had the sense to run away from home when I was a child. And some people don't understand this. i don't know why though. It's not difficult to grasp.

It makes me so angry/sick.