"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[pocketsaviour]

It's October 2016, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Hi Pulya,

I agree. Before referral to main services I saw a male followed by female CBT therapist. I clammed up with the guy, couldn't open up. It was too difficult - this was the exact same.

I don't trust my own feelings or beliefs. My self-worth and esteem are eroded. I trust no men and actively avoid situations - I will never see a male GP, HCP. Any one-to-one scenario I will avoid.

That said it's taken until mid late 30s to even admit to myself my childhood was abusive. Will take time.

Hi Serious, then it really is important that you speak up. I had a male counsellor too, they just think differently from women, he was useless to me. I'm sure his style suited many clients, but not me. I think it's absolutely crucial that you are able to use your instincts to guide yourself and hopefully develop some self belief. At the very least, you've defined your childhood as abusive, in which case you know that certain aspects were totally inappropriate and damaging which gives you a base to begin a healing journey, but you can't do that withkut proper support.

Right, I've got to get this out there. My relationship with my father and his wife is dreadful, and always has been. I'm 42 now and feel a bit silly, but I'm only now starting to realise just how bad things are, mostly through therapy. My Dad is a outwardly a very nice man, but unreliable and unavailable, and I'm realising that his behaviour is actually quite aggressive. His wife is a highly passive aggressive, narcissistic toad. They've been together for 35 years, but apart from an early honeymoon period we've not got on. For years I endured snide remarks and have been made to feel like baggage, getting in the way of her new family. My father has failed to protect me from this. There are lots of pictures of their children in the house, and literally not one of me or my older brother, even though I've pointed this out. It hurts enough that we've been excluded by my dad's wife, but I'm really angry and upset that my dad hasn't rectified the situation. He is failing as a father. In the last couple of years my dad has developed dementia, and his wife is managing his care. It's a really horrible thing for them to go through, but I'm now being intruded on constantly to help. He's forgotten who she is, and she calls me in the middle of the night to talk him down. I don't care - they haven't earnt this. My much loved younger brother (not her son) died of cancer 2 years ago, and she's never mentioned it. This weekend we looked after him, and got an earful from her afterwards because he'd forgotten who she is. We've now had a massive blowout, for the first time. I should be worried, but actually I'm relieved. I fantasise about them dying swiftly. I've always been an overly apologetic person, which I think is to compensate for the passive aggression in my relationship with them. I want this to stop - I have nothing to apologise for - they failed me, when I was a child and I needed them to be adults.

Phew, that's better.

I'm so fucking ANGRY

Luckybitches I am so sorry. It must be unbelievably hard dealing with caring for a parent with dementia you have a poor relationship with anyway.

I'm not there yet but it is something I dread.

How awful for you that you were the subject of a narcissistic rage in which you were being scapegoated for something that had nothing to do with you.

What a weak human your step mother must be to have to get so angry at being forgotten once and blame you for the symptoms of your father's dementia.

But what a horrible time for this to happen.

Hello stately homers.
I wanted to drop by because I have had a horrible phone call with my narcissistic mother.
They have known about (and been extremely unhappy about) the breakdown of my relationship with my abusive ex. I have told my parents about his very bad treatment of me and the times when he has been physically violent.
How desperately unhappy I have been. They know I've been on the freedom programme for example and that I have been getting help for the situation that I am in.

My parents dream is for me to get back together with my abusive ex.
They think I am being a stupid little girl.

They were horrible to me when I tried to reach out for help. My fathers grip tightened. On me and my mother particularly. He was cruel and judgemental towards me, and my mother blamed it on the loss of my looks and figure.
It all became about her as I was accused of being selfish for not considering her feelings in the matter.

'Have you ever stopped to consider how this is making me feel' is the comment I received from her when I confided in her of the unbearable abuse I experienced from my ex partner.
It was a horrible time.

They visited recently to see my ds and my ex partner was at the house at the time.
You could see that they were delighted. They hugged and kissed him hello and goodbye and the happiness on their faces to see that he was there was visible to all.

To cut a long story short, the thing that has really upset me tonight is a closing comment after a phone call with my mother tonight she said 'love to you and also lots of love to xxx (ex p)' in fond and happy way.
She and my father clearly think, dream hope, that we are back together and have assumed that we are because he was at the house that time. We have not lived together for 2 years.

They live in this dream world that we are together even when we are not.

It's like a blow to the face, this women supposed to be my mother declaring love and affection for the man who was physically and emotionally abusive towards her daughter and she knows it.
It has really really upset me tonight.

I also scared of their reaction in the new year when I tell them I am moving away and that we are in fact still not together.

Lucky I'm glad that you're angry, it'll help you get through this. Yeah it's funny how you're shit on their shoe until they need something, isn't it?

Can you disengage? You're not taking an active role in his care, are you? So if you draw back, stop answering those middle of the night calls, she'll just have to bloody cope one way or another.

wooden that all sounds pretty standard narcissist from your mother. She only cares about her own feelings - she doesn't want to own up to having a divorced daughter. Your exH, having abused you, is higher in her hierarchy than you are - they fear/respect predators. So from her extremely fucked up POV
a) A bad thing happened to her, concerning you and your exH
b) Everything bad that happens to her is someone else's fault
c) Your exH is higher up the hierarchy than you are, so it must be your fault.

Also, you don't say explicitly, but it sounds like your dad might be a bit of a bully. Has your mother stayed with a bullying husband for fear of what the neighbours say? Does she see that as normal?

I also scared of their reaction in the new year when I tell them I am moving away and that we are in fact still not together

You know that if they are going to be horrible, you don't have to put yourself in the firing line? You can write and tell them, you can tell them after you've moved, you can go no contact. You don't have to show up for a kicking. You can always walk away. You've done nothing wrong.

Thanks for replies so far, it really helps (love this thread!).

Toomuch - I've been drawn into taking an active role, visiting weekly. I absolutely hate it. I don't think it's an unreasonable request in itself, but it's made me realise just how afraid I am of them, and how emotionally abusive/neglectful they both are. But some boundaries are being put in place. The phone goes on airplane mode from 9.00 pm now. Bliss! The problem is, she started calling my DH. He's now switching his phone off. If it's an emergency, then she's just going to have to dial 999. And you're right, I am being used. Extricating myself from them is going to be tricky, as my half sister lives there, and we are quite close. Thus far she seems to be taking her mum's side, in as much as she's being the mouthpiece. I'd be sad to lose her, but it's better than losing my mind!

EthelB - thanks for acknowledging me. That really helps, I've kept quiet about it for 35 years, and have taken responsibility for some very immature adults who failed to parent me properly.

Woodenblocks - your mother is not your friend, and she is not on your side. You deserve so much better. I like what toomuch said about not having to show up for a kicking - its so true.

I've been looking at support groups for sibling and I about our childhood abuse, sadly most seemed to be predominantly aimed at sexual abuse which we didn't suffer from so I'm struggling to find somewhere for us to fit into.

It's been a hard slog. I've had my mother making pointed statuses about me of Facebook and posting memes which are aimed at me. I've refrained from commenting on it but I've left her in no uncertain terms that I know they are about me and she gloated to my sibling about them being about me.

Last night I got so worked up with anger I thought I was finally going to snap. That worries me as I'm so controlled with my temper and anger but I've felt for a while this slow rage build inside me and I'm scared it's going to boil over I know whole heartily if it does it won't be able to control it or myself. I've got so much pent up anger regarding the abuse and neglect we suffered due to them and the abuse they continue to inflict by telling lies, denying and making me and my sibling feel we are crazy and other people believe we are crazy. I'm not a violent person I've only ever been violent once when I defended myself against my bother punching me in the face but I'm scared if I lose it I'd become violent with my parents both of them.

My mother's a narcissist, there is something not right in her head, she calculated and sly and cold and she's incredible at gaslighting and lying. My father inflicted the violence on us when his temper exploded but I've come to realise my mother is much worse in what she's done and continues to do.

Would like to bump this for any new visitors to the Stately Home at this time of year.

Thanks Atilla.
Hi all, new to mumsnet and this too.
I am so glad to find this group. Until recently I never heard of NPD or understood what narcissism was. I thought it was just vanity gone crazy. But after a hugs row on holiday with my mother I began to look into why my mother has never been able to support me, especially emotionally and why everyone was agreeing with me that her behaviour was not right, yet I still believed I was in the wrong. She has had such a strong hold over me for forever really. But I finally had the courage to stand up to her. I am now NC if that's even possible whilst I am allowing the children contact. I am still all over the place and really value the support of those with similar situations. So thank you all in advance.

Right now I am struggling with the children having contact. I am the skapegoat mainly, but in some situations the golden child. My sister 9 years my junior is the same and my mother has created an enormous divide between us. My older brother is the true golden child and chooses to be an ostrich too all the families issues. My father is I believe on the spectrum and is therefore unable to emotionally connect with anyone or empathise. He is also her puppy and will only acknowledge he agrees with you in a
Whisper after, if you tell her however he will deny.
After reading a book called its not you its your mother, I discovered (I think) my problem. My mother is a narcissist. It ties it all together. I once told a counselor about how my my mum seemed to dislike when I was mentally well or getting stronger in my self esteem or self worth. She quietly asked if I thought she preferred me weak and I'll because she could control me better then. I didn't get to see her again as my marriage was falling apart by then. But reading the book,it came back to me.
The problem is when you are conditioned as I think I have been to believe that you are a hypochondriac and a drama queen. You doubt yourself. I have also been told I don't take responsibility for my actions and so wondered if I was just looking for someone to blame for the soap opera of my life.

Anyway, I am convinced about this, the trouble I have is that I went NC with my sister after she took rumours she was told from my mother that were all unfounded and contracted the nspcc about me. She then refused to discuss this even when I was cleared of all allegations. It still remains in the air. The children have NC with their fathers family except his mother and her new partner. The father has aspergers and a condition called FACS which means he has supervised contact with them, he however barely bothers with them during contact and not at all out of it. We are NC with his brother as he is a convicted sex offender and his sister (Oh a whole other world of nutty) he has a severely autistic brother who is in residential care and that's it.
I worry that all they we me do is cut contact with members of their family, they do not understand and have had in the past a great deal of contact with my side, so must find it difficult. I am basically cutting everyone on and I worry it looks as though I am just cutting out people who go against me in some fit of immature temper. So I allowed the kids to spend half term at my mothers, which I loved I had a whole week to myself which was bliss. But I felt so guilty, her I was refusing contact because of her nasty behaviour and yet I was exposing them to it, so I could get a break. They are also going from boxing day to new years eve,which again I feel bad about because I am looking forward to the break, but again exposing them as well as this I am worried I am being hypocritical accepting gifts for the kids, I was asked what I wanted and refused to have anything. If the kids don't go they will get far fewer gifts than normal, which I know shouldn't matter but I still want them to have the same enjoyment, and it will be just me and them all Christmas,which we have never done. We always go to my mums Christmas eve to boxing day eve.

Any thoughts welcome.

Thanks to those who answered me. Ohdearieme I don't have any advice but admire that you are NC while allowing the kids contact. How does that work? Just got off phone to my mother and as usual I want to curl up in a little ball and cry. It leaves me feeling shitty for days. She disappoint me so much. I think I need to find a counsellor!

Hi stumbled upon this thread this morning and felt like a fitting time to join.

I'll try keep it short .. Christmas is a hard time for me. Christmas time when I was 7 was when I disclosed sexual abuse to my mother .There was 2 perpetrators my dad and my uncle. She only believe me about one and took me to the police and never mentioned the other again. To cut a long story short nothing became if it. Not enough evidence and I was sent back up to my dads. This time of year kills me. The constant reminders, , Christmas have a Negative connotation for me.

I no longer see my dad and uncle but still see my mum. Even though she handled things very badly, treated my like crap as a teenager and kicked me out at 16 I feel guilty so see her. What i find hard is she has changed the past in her head so whenever I see her and she talks about past experiences she lies. Maybe it helps her deal with her crap parenting but I find it really hard to deal with.

So I'm feeling down about it all as per . Trying to practice self care but to be honest I'm probably just drinking too much wine.

I'm just coming out of a bit of a dip. Was taking medication, was struggling with an eating disorder again but things are on the up and I'm healthier and I don't want to go backwards again this Christmas .

I don't know what I want from this post. I'm sure I'll be back after spending time with my mother in the next few weeks

Oops

Your children are really receiving mixed messages; they see you not go to their nan's house but you send them along (out of your own fear, obligation and guilt). Your breaks from them are costing them and you very highly.

Your only error here now been to keep enabling your children to have any sort of contact with your mother. Your parents were not good parents to you when growing up and now your children are being used by your mother as narcissistic supply. They will harm your children in not too dissimilar ways as to how you have been harmed; she perhaps is doing the golden child/scapegoat (and those roles are interchangeable) dynamic with them already. They also tend to over value or under value the relationship with the grandchildren. Often, when they over-value, it is the objective of the narcissist grandparent to steal the child from you. I mean that in both senses, physically and emotionally. Ngrandparents are known for so much trash-talking against you behind your back to your own child or children that they want to go live with grandma or grandpa, or the Ngrandparents simply inspire rebellion of the child against you. They steal the hearts of the grandchildren. Sometimes, they will battle for physical custody of a grandchild after their slander campaign against you has won them powerful allies. Many times the Ngrandparent has a lot of extra cash to throw around since they are done raising a family. They may successfully exploit the natural selfishness of the child by using cash or toys to lure them. I have seen this scenario being played out in full on MN; do not think this will not happen to you. They can even steal your children's hearts from you when the children near adulthood with promises of money, houses, cars, college tuition, etc. as bait. I would also think your mother also bitches about you in their hearing as well, I would take that as a given.

Please do not subject them to this sort of emotional manipulation from your parents any longer. They need to be protected from people like your mother, not visited!!!.

I cannot use enough words to describe how awful narcissistic grandparents are. Many adult children of narcissists do fall into this trap; they fail to recognize the adaptability of the narcissist to changing circumstances. Your mother is still a nasty narcissist who has harmed you greatly; she has not changed a jot. Your bringing new life into the world did not fundamentally change your abusive parent into a loving family member. But adult children of narcissists (ACONs) seem to show a natural affinity for believing in this work of fiction. We have always wanted our parent to be loving to us, and now we want our parent to be a loving grandparent. What we want and what we end up with are two very different things.

Cutting off from your narcissist parent is a good thing. No need to act otherwise. Your children will sense it is a good thing by how you behave. Model how you want them to respond and it is likely they will imitate. Don't be afraid of their questions. Kids are amazingly resilient and well-equipped to handle truth. Parents are supposed to protect their progeny. If your child doesn't agree with how you go about that don't worry. They will often disagree with your decisions for their best interests. Nothing new there. It is your job as parent to make the tough decisions. If you know it is the right decision then proceed with confidence. Showing confidence is a quality of leadership. As a parent you are supposed to be a leader. Lead...and they will likely follow.

It is not your fault your family of origin are dysfunctional; you did not make them this way and the mistakes you have made re the children can be undone. You can and must protect them from frankly dangerous people like your mother. You have protected your children and yourself from other dysfunctional family members, you can do the same now with your mother. Self preservation is necessary.

Cancel their visit to their nan's now and make your own traditions. They certainly do not need toys from their nan, these from her anyway are certainly not without their own shedload of obligation attached.

Wingingit,

I don't have any real advice, just to empathise really. Some of my worse abuse as a child happened at Christmas and is dredged up each year. It's not easy. Can you surround yourself with friends and family?

I'd suggest counselling. You could have it out with your mother, but this isn't advise I've taken myself. Going low, or non, contact are also options.

Wingingit

I am glad to read that you are coming out of a dip.

Can you do something else this year other than just go and see your toxic mother who has failed you utterly as a parent?. She like all toxic parents rewrite history to suit their own ends. She has also put her interests way above yours.

I believe you. Your dad and his brother ought to be in prison for what they did to you. NAPAC napac.org.uk/ are very good and I would urge you to make contact with them if you have not already done so.

I take it as read your dad and uncle are still alive. Attitudes have changed with regards to historic sexual abuse and you may in the future want to go to the police again. I would urge you to talk to NAPAC and seek their wise counsel.

Oh, and, you have nothing to be guilty about. My mother also likes to rewrite history.

Please be kind to yourself.

Thanks for the NAPAC link Attila, I've somehow missed it in the past and will likely use their support shortly.

It's a good time too to thank you, the many regulars, and everyone who has posted in these threads this year. We're all stronger as a result. Thank you.

Steve

You are very kind. I hope that you and all the other Stately Homes people past and present find peace. I will find peace with my fellow Meerkats this Christmas by going on holiday and away from MIL (narcissist) and my parents (who really are the epitome of "un" in the word "uninterested").
I would actively encourage people to post here over the festivities.

Also Steve you have nothing to feel guilty about. It is not your fault that those terrible things happened to you, the fault lies with them and they alone.

My best wishes to you and all the other Stately Homes people .

Have been on this thread a few times & got lots of help thank you for dealing with narcissistic father. Just got a nasty email from him which has weirdly made me feel better as it has backed up why I have very little to do with him which is easy as we live on opposite sides of world.

Apparently I should not blame him for bad things that he caused, wasn't actually his fault. And I should just 'get over' this and 'flush it'. He's disappointed in how I live my life, and that he has no contact with my DC's. My DC's have been hurt by him & don't want anything to do with him. And not to reply to his email as he doesn't want to hear my justifications. And I suck out all his energy.

The only downside is my Uncle doesn't get these tirades (my Aunts husband did get this) - so while he agrees my DF is not a nice man he still doesn't understand or chooses not to.

Oops
The problem is when you are conditioned as I think I have been to believe that you are a hypochondriac and a drama queen. You doubt yourself. I have also been told I don't take responsibility for my actions and so wondered if I was just looking for someone to blame for the soap opera of my life.

Yes, that's pretty classic for someone raised by a gaslighting narcissist. It's not you, it's them. I find it can be very hard to believe it all, as there's nobody to back up my version of events - but ultimately you need too believe in yourself. It sounds like you're becoming more uncomfortable with leaving your kids with your mother and I think you're right there - you don't know what form the abuse will take with your kids, but she'll be gunning for someone. Even if she manages to maintain a veneer of niceness around them, there's still the option to gaslight you ("look how nice I'm being to your kids! There must have been something really wrong with you for me to have been so horrible to you your whole childhood") and it's not worth it. And listen to Atilla! She has laid it all out properly in her post.

Wingingit is there any way you could avoid Christmas with your mother? It seems like such a shame to have got yourself out of the dip and then have to be set back again.

I wish I could have you all over to my house this Christmas. We're NC with my abusive mother and will only be seeing the people we really like over the holidays. Imagine we could all meet up? I bet we would have a great time. It would be so drama-free, and so nice, and we would be able to see for once that we are not the bloody problem

Christmas Day is going to be spent st home with my husband and 2 boys. Boxing Day we are going to see my mother. I hate how she sits and lords it up and plays loving grandmother to my kids when actually she barely sees them. She makes no effort and the kids don't really know who they (mum and step dad) are. Thankfully we only see them 3-4 times a year. No contact would be great but it wouldn't go down well. They wouldn't leave me alone. It feels that by going to see them for a day it buys me some 'peace' I guess for the next few months. Although it's not peace because afterwards I feel like crap. I'm very lucky that my husband can see what absolute arses they are and despairs with them as much as me. I guess we just want an easy life and to avoid any more conflict so it's easier to play along. I make sure I don't drink that much when there as they have a tendency to get drunk and start having discussions about the past (or their changed version of the past) and I sit there having to bite my tongue. And if they start I always tell myself that I can just go to bed and leave the next day. Or if k haven't drank anything just leave.

Wingingit that's what we used to do and TBH if it weren't for the fact that we moved abroad (so no option for a fast getaway when we/she visited) we'd probably still be doing it. With my mother there was this fiction we had to participate in that we were the perfect family and there wasn't the slightest discord between us. Given she treated us really badly even when we were doing our best to accommodate her (she was always on this knife edge of being about to kick off), I can't imagine how nuts she would have gone if we'd tried to cry off a previously-arranged Christmas visit so I know where you're coming from.

Ahh Attila, you know me too well by now it seems!

I don't think I will ever lose those ingrained feelings of self-doubt, or ever truly develop self-worth and self-esteem. The feelings of guilt are so strong.

Although, this Christmas may be the first since I was young I don't see my mother. Problematic in its own way as it happened once before, she was taken to a mental hospital on Christmas Day. I think it will be visceral, painful but maybe somewhat...freeing?

Although, I was a total wreck when I first posted in this thread, having suicidal thoughts and self-harm was dangerously close. I've made massive strides in a few months, saying things I never thought I'd ever express.

I've also embraced an old love ready for the new year and am looking forward to investing time into some projects. Also signed up for an OU degree.

I don't want to call people out by name but when I joined the thread Attila, pocketsaviour, toomuchtooold, and many others, I cannot thank you enough for the kind words and support you showed. You've played a pivotal role in opening my eyes. You're all fucking incredible.

Gosh this thread is amazing.