The ignoring.....not so gaaaaa (part 2)

[FV45]

So ex finally left the home yesterday.
Slept ok and atmosphere in home is much lighter.

Residency issues are ongoing. As it stands I don't know what's happening at the weekend.

I am collecting DS2 from after school club and taking him to school tomorrow. Ex collecting from school. Ex won't discuss timings for me to collect DS2 from him on Saturday morning. Suspect he plans to drop him here at his convenience.

Am seeing sol and going to meditation MIAM soon with view to court so not sure what I can do until then, aside from log everything.

Is it right that I only need to give brief outline of what I want Court to do at this stage, and only when I have court ref number will then provide statement/evidence and all that?

Yep, the box isn't all that big... Just give a brief summary of what you're after.

I've been reading the Dads help guide you sent me. Very, very helpful thank you...I do love a bit of plain English!

Also I guess things DS tells me cannot be used as evidence, can they? Things like when he told me he woke up and didn't know where his dad was and was scared.

Unless you've reported it to children's services or.the police, I wouldn't mention it. It'll be his word against yours and the courts take a dim view of unsubstantiated allegations.

Reading more about the first hearing. I will have to be in the room with him. OMG. The only thing I have to indicate his behaviour is that he didn't attend his MIAM.

Don't sweat it too much... Chances are he won't speak to you. I'd expect the judge will just ask him why the fuck he didn't respond to the request for mediation and then tell him to actually go and come back after.

First resolution hearings often don't take long. Chances are you won't be stuck in the court with him for too long. Waiting room might be another story though.

c3 how did the roast go?

I did fragrant fish tagine, or favourite mish machine as DS2 once called it.

I'm so upset. He has dictated every day since he left just over 4 weeks ago. I have repeatedly rejected previous proposals, he ignores me.

There is a little boy involved. I can't have him go to school not knowing where he's going that afternoon.

He's doing very well at school and I don't want that to change.

Also, have you considered writing a position statement? Probably won't need one for first hearing, but you'll almost certainly need one before long, so you may find it of benefit to write one in advance.

Thank you so much c3.

So I should get cracking on getting C100 form sent off then.

So the judge might just tell us to do mediation anyway, even though I have a MIAM exemption form?

c3 how did the roast go?

It was epic. Roast chicken. Both kids cleared their plates, probably the only thing I cook which they actually eat in its entirety without moaning.

I did fragrant fish tagine, or favourite mish machine as DS2 once called it.

Very nice. I do a Thai red curry with haddock and sweet potatoes which is very tasty. Quick and easy, but I haven't tried the boys on it yet...

I'm so upset. He has dictated every day since he left just over 4 weeks ago. I have repeatedly rejected previous proposals, he ignores me.

Ah yes, back on topic. Hes a cunt, but I think that was firmly established long ago... If it's any consolation, with court action looming being totally reasonable and accommodating in the run up is usually the best course of action, so you're not doing the wrong thing by going along with his (totally unacceptable) demands and schedule.

There is a little boy involved. I can't have him go to school not knowing where he's going that afternoon.

The court and mediator will likely agree.

He's doing very well at school and I don't want that to change.

Fingers crossed some stability will be coming along soon. I got a court date about 5 weeks after I sent off the C100, but I think they get a bit busier in the rub up to Xmas for obvious reasons...

Yes. You can just go out to avoid him. I'm afraid I really wouldn't be allowing less than 50:50 at this point. If he can prove he has him more it's a very slippery slope. Just keep rejecting proposals.

Remember less is more in emails/written communication. So, "No not acceptable (or no that doesn't work), it's not 50:50 and it's not in DSs interests." Rinse and repeat.

This is really the scariest time. All your fears go on the rampage pré-court. I took a girlfriend to drive me and literally hold my hand up to the audience. Lawyer and girl friend totally protected me while we were waiting for our slot. (My lawyer gets a kick out of pressing his buttons.)

In the audience never look at him. Be succinct. Write stuff down. Learn a phrase or two.

"I would never seek to stop contact with fuckface"

"My concerns are with continuity and routine for DS and that he (we all) should know where he will be on any given day of the week". It's completely reasonable to want to be able plan activities months in advance you know. Just cos he can't is not your problem.

"DS should have the opportunities of regular after school activities that shouldn't be stopped because of fuckfaces time tabling issues."

"Fuckfaces timetabling issues shouldn't be DSs problem."

"I have made xyz proposal for 50:50 care but all have been rejected. "

Im sure others can refine these phrases for you.

So I should get cracking on getting C100 form sent off then.

Definitely. Nothing will change otherwise!

So the judge might just tell us to do mediation anyway, even though I have a MIAM exemption form?

I reckon so. The only reason you haven't been to mediation is cos your ex is obstructive, so I think there's a good chance the first step will be for the judge to make him do it. It's not necessarily a bad thing, as if mediation is successful you can always ask for the result to be written into an order (consent order).

I will do it this evening.

Do you think they will take into account he didn't go to divorce mediation and that he obstructed the divorce every single step of the way?

Maybe I can state that I willing to attend mediation on the condition that in order to stabilise things for DS ASAP that we agree to attend every week until resolved?

I don't think I can bear the thought to be honest

I shall put it out of me head until this evening.

*my head!

Wallywobbles "If he can prove he has him more it's a very slippery slope."
Yes, that is my concern, but there is very little I can do aside from keep all communication saying I don't agree and his lack of willingness to discuss.

Thank you for your advice, I feel encouraged that what you've said are already things in my mind ie it's all about DS and it will not help me at all to come across as a vengeful ex (I can get all that off my chest here!).

Actually I don't want any sort of revenge, I just want him to stop being a dick.

Wallywobbles "If he can prove he has him more it's a very slippery slope."
Yes, that is my concern, but there is very little I can do aside from keep all communication saying I don't agree and his lack of willingness to discuss.

This is what worried me, hence why I suggested you reject his proposal and do your very best to stand your ground.

It might be worth testing it out to see if he would actually turn up to collect when he is not meant to, the last time he was insisting on a particular day I seem to remember he did text you prior to picking him up. I'm not suggesting for the sake of your son that this is done regularly but just once so you know for a fact that he will (he probably will) just turn up. Also you then have it on record regarding how impossible it is to make arrangements with ex.

Do you think they will take into account he didn't go to divorce mediation and that he obstructed the divorce every single step of the way?

Perhaps... They tend to try and let the past be the past for the sake of moving forwards, but if he continues to be obstructive the similar behaviour becomes more relevant. The courts don't like mudslinging, so I'd suggest trying to keep any negative trait pointing out to a bare minimum!

Maybe I can state that I willing to attend mediation on the condition that in order to stabilise things for DS ASAP that we agree to attend every week until resolved?

I wouldn't throw about any conditions, I'd say give it a go and if it isn't working (ie he continues to be unreasonable/obstructive) then don't wait about, just take it straight back to court. If he doesn't engage in mediation it will look very bad on him.

I don't think I can bear the thought to be honest

I shall put it out of my head until this evening.

I feel your pain! Do you think that he will turn up to court? His refusal to engage so far indicates he might not, but frankly it's a dumb move and he seems a bit smarter than that.

Actually I don't want any sort of revenge, I just want him to stop being a dick.

Absolutely. Being the bigger person and coming across as calm and reasonable will be of great help to your (and DS's) cause.

Oh one other thing for court. The only audience that counts is the judge.

I wouldn't throw about any conditions, I'd say give it a go and if it isn't working (ie he continues to be unreasonable/obstructive) then don't wait about, just take it straight back to court. If he doesn't engage in mediation it will look very bad on him.

You see, that just seems to be unnecessary time. I already DID try to mediate with him. Do I have to now be reasonable (bloody sick of being reasonable - a week here, 10 days there....). It just seems like a game.

I go to MIAM, am encouraged to invite EA ex to go, he ignores request, MIAN exemption is sent to me, I apply to Court, judge says ex HAS to go to mediation, ex has a reasonable time to book MIAM (14 days I imagine), he goes within a reasonable time (within a week I imagine, it's a waste of time or he kicks off as he did for the divorce MIAM, I go back to Court. It is exactly the thought of this situation which reduced me to tears when I went to my MIAM.

Would they give me another mediation exemption? What's the point of the first one then? If it's routine for the judge to send to MIAM anyway, why not just do it at this stage? I did ask the mediator to state that I would be applying to court if ex didn't go to MIAM, but he (rightly) said he couldn't put that in the letter because he had to be impartial. I get that, but surely there should be some standard letter that informs reluctant MIAM attendees that it is likely a judge will send them anyway.

Not having a go at you c3, but I am so frustrated.

I am going for a run.

Argh it is so frustrating

Hope the run was good.

You see, that just seems to be unnecessary time. I already DID try to mediate with him. Do I have to now be reasonable (bloody sick of being reasonable - a week here, 10 days there....). It just seems like a game.

It IS a game... Think of it as a game of chess. There are moves, and counter moves. The "winner" is the person who learns how to play the game and knows the moves not only that they will be making, but also those their opponent will make.

I go to MIAM, am encouraged to invite EA ex to go, he ignores request, MIAN exemption is sent to me, I apply to Court, judge says ex HAS to go to mediation, ex has a reasonable time to book MIAM (14 days I imagine), he goes within a reasonable time (within a week I imagine, it's a waste of time or he kicks off as he did for the divorce MIAM, I go back to Court. It is exactly the thought of this situation which reduced me to tears when I went to my MIAM.

Yes, it sucks. But the wheels of justice are slow indeed. The quickest way to sort this, however, is to work the existing system as best you can.

Just thought - at the first hearing, you could ask for an interim order to bring some stability to the situation while mediation goes on... I've heard of interim orders being granted before, but in different circumstances - usually if one parent has stopped contact for flimsy reasons etc.

It might not work, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to ask.

Would they give me another mediation exemption? What's the point of the first one then?

The first one is for reasonable people to attend... You went, your ex didn't.

If it's routine for the judge to send to MIAM anyway, why not just do it at this stage? I did ask the mediator to state that I would be applying to court if ex didn't go to MIAM, but he (rightly) said he couldn't put that in the letter because he had to be impartial. I get that, but surely there should be some standard letter that informs reluctant MIAM attendees that it is likely a judge will send them anyway.

The courts really don't want their time being taken up by low level disputes that can be sorted out by mediation, hence their insistence that mediation is attempted before they make an order.

I'm in two minds about your ex - he sounds obstructive and abusive, but he doesn't sound stupid. I'd be surprised if he doesn't know the implications and processes of child arrangements - I'd suspect he would have looked into this sort of thing at some point. But the flip side is if he had read up I rather think he'd be playing the game a bit more...

Not having a go at you c3, but I am so frustrated.

I understand your frustration... I'm not an expert, but I've been through some of it and read up on it a lot, so I have a few clues, but each case (and judge) is different, so all my advice may be totally off the mark and it may not happen the way I expect at all... So there is hope!

I am going for a run.

You strike me as a woman of reasonable stamina - I'm sure you can see this through to the end. I'm yet to speak to a person who took a case to court and actually regretted it. Stick at it.

Yeah the run was ace.
I have running tights with reflective spots. They make me happy.

Cool tights! They bring you joy like the bumble bee tights in Me Before You. Wear them with pride.

Will you respond to his last proposal or just go with it for now?

I replied the day it arrived first asking whether he was willing to discuss. No reply, and then another telling him he had 17 to my 13 nights and that I did not agree. No reply.

Well at least your ex isnt going to steal those socks/tights 😂

I've read Me Before You, but not seen the film. Maybe I should get it on DVD.

Yes c3 my socks are all now completely OTT girly! So liberating.

So, I've spent about 1/2hr re-doing the rota for the second 1/2 of this month. I'm sick of having to do the work for this every 2 weeks.

The timeline was that I made a proposal on 3rd Nov which was based on alternate 5 days each.

He responded on the 6th Nov with a list of dates, based I presume entirely on his work pattern.
I responded that day asking whether he was willing to discuss and also pointing out that his proposal meant 17/13 nights in his favour and that I did not agree.
No reply to that.

What do you think to the response below? nb I will detail pick up and collect times/place in my email to him. I am not willing to push dates on him that I know he's working. I am DONE with it - remember I have years and years of his control and I know he will not agree. That he needs to resolve his working hours or get childcare is something for the courts to decide. I am not accepting it, I am doing my best. I have already told him many times.

Dear Wanker
I do not agree with your proposal for the last two weeks of November. As I have said before it is not in [DS2s] best interests to stay only a single night with either of us.

I do not agree with residency being based on your varying and unpredictable working patterns, but since you have shown no willingness to change your hours or find childcare my proposal is based around your working days.
It also balances out the days he is spending with each of us, and allows him to go to Beavers on Mondays.

Mon 14th M
Tue 15th M
Wed 16th M
Thu 17th M
Fri 18th R
Sat 19th R
Sun 20th M
Mon 21st M
Tues 22nd R
Wed 23rd R
Thur 24th M
Fri 25th M
Sat 26th M
Sun 27th M
Mon 28th R
Tues 29th R
Wed 30th R

His proposal gives you the dates he is free so work out a fairer schedule and send it to him, with a note added 'if you don't hear back in 48hrs you will assume he accepts it' - entirely up to you if you want to push it and make up for any days you have missed out on.

Do you both agree when the schedules begin and end? That has to be agreed to enable 50:50.

Sorry x post

Is he R? R has fewer nights, is that because you are making up from where you missed out from the last schedule? If so you need to point that out in the email.

I see your list is 17 days, his was 30 so I wonder if it's better you both agree to work on either a 30 day schedule or 14 days.

Will he not take DS2 to Beavers?

Yes, he's R.
Yes, the fewer days to him balances it out and also it's the only way to avoid a single night stop over.
No, his was 3 weeks, but included this week which we had already agreed upon...well that I had already resigned myself to accept I suppose.
He can't work to 30 days, as he only knows his work schedule 2 weeks in advance I think (he's never actually discussed that with me).
I don't agree to either 30 or 14 day discussions - we do not talk, this is just getting me by until a court order puts something permanent in place I hope.

Nope, he never takes him to beavers. I told him on Sunday that DS wanted to go and asked whether he'd collect sweatshirt after school or just before beavers. No reply. THIS is really going to look bad.