Religious moral dilema!!

[supersox]

Hi All

I've never posted before, so hope you will not mind this intrusion.

I have a new friend, a woman I met at a soft play area who is new to the area. We get along really well, have lots in common and she is a really lovely person. My only slight reservation is that she is deeply religious (of the 'Happy Clappy' persuasion)which I don't have a problem with per se but why do I feel like a potential new recruit?

She's quite full-on and although I've been honest and told her it's not for me I think she thinks I can be educated!

This weekend she has invited my children to her Sunday School (they do want to go) so I feel I must accompany them! Any ideas? I really do value her friendship and we get on so well in every other respect.

friendships have to be based on mutual respect

can you respect her religious beliefs? and can she respect your lack of them?

she may just be being friendly - if she's new the sunday school may be the only thing she can invite you to.

I am friends with the vicars wife. I wouldnt be if I thought she was trying to recruit me. She knows im not in the slightest bit religious but we get on never the less and enjoy each others company.

Speaking from a Christian perspective I know I would love my friends to share the belief I have. For me I've found something great and just want other people to experience a good thing too.

I'm sure this friend has your best interests at heart (even if you don't believe that - she will sincerely IYSWIM). She won't be wanting to "recruit" you ( I hope!) but she will be hoping that if you hear something of the Xian message then you may want to hear more. But if she's a good caring friend, she'll also back off if you make it clear that you're not in the least bit interested. You might have to be a bit firmer and make sure that if you're unhappy about your children attending a Sunday School then you really should stop it now.

But be warned, whatever you say she'll probably still pray for you

Thanks everyone!

Bobsmum, I absolutely agree with what you say and actually don't have a problem with the children going to the Sunday School. I'm sure they will have a lovely time and make some new friends (which can never be a bad thing). I'm more concerned about myself being amongst the adults!! I know I should either be more forthright and/or less petrified but I can't help it.

I have been very frank in a humorous way and told her it's the way in which they express themselves, in church, I find uncomfortable; all the praising etc. Without that, I could probably cope.

hmmm - you need to think about messages your kids will potentially be exposed to at sunday school. do you want to have to contradict things they're hearing or have a complicated theological debate? my godless daughter got v confused when she had origninally learned about evolution and then in school assembly kept hearing about how god made the animals.

why not just keep meeting at the soft play area?

Another very good point smittenkitten. However as you rightly pointed out, all the stuff about God is regularly referred to at school. I'm not so anti as to be witholding the children from assemblies and other various religious celebrations and most of us have had similar as children. I for one, was always packed off to Sunday School as a child but actually, remember virtually nothing of any religious significance but remember having fun, having a drink and a biscuit and seeing my friends.

I wouldn't through choice, send them to church but hopefully, won't be having to field off questions I cannot answer truthfully. Truth is, I can't honestly say what I believe in, so am on the fence but happy with the way we are and will not allow my chilren to be indoctrinated.

Strangely enough, my children are, as I type, singing a song, something about... 'I know he cares, he will never leave me'!!! Is that a hymn?!

Speaking as a Christian - if I were attending a new church myself with the children I would go to the sunday school with them at first. I'm not sure what you mean by 'happy-clappy' - this is quite a naive non-Christian term that could cover anything form a more lively CofE to a Pentecostal church IYSWIM.

I'd encourage you to go to the church services and the sunday school a few time before you decide to let your kids go by themselves but once you're happy I'm sure they'll have a great time.

Where are you located? - you never know, oe of the MN members might know it and be able to help.

Sorry Liquidlocks if I sound a litle disrespectful when I say 'Happy Clappy' but it's actually the way my friend describes herself! She says she's a born-again christian and just goes to show how much I know of the church and the various persuasions! I think it's The King's Church.

I wouldn't expect my friend to take my children along to Sunday school without me of course but maybe if in future, they seem to enjoy going, we will have to see.

Supersox, Bobsmum makes a very good point. Your friend may not feel she is being a friend to you if she doesn't at least introduce you to her faith. I'm sure she will respect your decision if you are not interested. But do try to look at it from her point of view. If she didn't care about you she wouldn't care about where your soul was headed IYSWIM.

I second liquidclocks, the church sounds like it's an independent evangelical church and they can be quite definite in their views. I'd definitely go along to the Sunday School (rather than staying with the adults) and see what it is that they are being taught. If your childhood Sunday School was anything like mine the actual theology wasn't a lot different from the average school assembly, but that isn't always the case.

Thanks nearlythree (and all) actually didn't think I'd be welcome along with the children. Wouldn't it look odd if I stay? I'd much rather TBH!

and yes paulaplumpbottom, I do think it's nice that she cares and she often prays for me. She's a genuinely kind and lovely person and has suffered quite a difficult young life. Just makes me wonder why I feel so awkward about it. And when she does mention God, as she does, freely, I wish I had some more valuable input rather than feeling I'm constantly fending her off!

I?m assuming by happy clappy you mean she?s a born again Christian? In which case I would head for the hills and never look back.

Ime Christians are one thing, people who have their faith and who worship every Sunday etc, and most of the ?Christians? I?ve met generally have the view that faith is a personal thing and that you don?t force your beliefs on to others. But born again Christions are quite another. Generallly they have found god later in life, and generally because finding God has been such a ?revelation? for them, they feel that they need to be out there, spreading the word of God, and preying for the souls of all those who don?t believe. And the ?happy clappy? churches can be quite scary places for young children IMO. On the positive side, the music is generally very uplifting, most of them have a band as opposed to just an organist, and the songs are very much ?haleluja praise the lord? ?. Styley. But on the down side there is a lot of praising and shouting and emotion, and even people speaking in tongues etc which is very scary if you?ve never experienced it. And once you?ve been you?ll be expected to go back. And I?m afraid to say that while this woman is most probably a lovely person, as her friend you are almost certainly a potential convert.

Supersox: just maybe you feel uncomfortable because your new friend is trying to recruit you. Don't let your DCs go to Sunday School without you: it is acutally quite important to check what they are being told and how they feel about it.

Now, of course, it may all be perfectly harmless, friendly, etc - I am certainly not suggesting that all Sunday schools and independent churches are full of brainwashed nutters. But some are. You might want to check your kids aren't being taught that women are naturally subservient to men, that the earth is flat and that lesbians and gays should all be executed, for instance. You might not want them to be frightened by threats that they'll go to hell if they don't follow the teachings of the bible.
Again, of course, many Sunday schools smilingly teach the old myths, hand out a drink and a biscuit and demand no more of the DCs than a bit of singing and attentive listening at storytime - no harm done at all. But check first.
As to the new friend, FWIW and of course YMMV, if I made a new friend who asked me to go to church or bring DC I'd smile politely and say, "I don't think so. I'm an atheist." Because that would be the truth and I see no need to hide it.

Oh God WBWIWB! Do you think so? You sound as though you've had some experience! As I said, I don't have a problem with those who keep a lid on it but would be really freaked out to witness too much over-enthusiascic praising! As for speaking in tongues-oh no thanks!

Well, I can't feign illness this weekend because I really was ill last weekend, so think I'll have to brace myself and go. Hopefully there will be some nice cheerful tunes!

which town/city is it in?

supersox, any church should be happy for you to accompany your dcs to its Sunday club/school. If it isn't, you don't want to be there.

I'm a sort of Christian, but as I'm sceptical about churches I'd give this one a miss.

It's in Taunton, Somerset.

see if they have a website, go along, they should all have crb checks on the childrens workers etc. I'm from the "happy clappy" persuasion currently attending baptist curch but I would always warn people to be careful when going along to a church to check it is "christain" rather than "do as we say - bordering on bullying type place". Yep if they do not want you to sit in on the sunday school take your children and run!

Wannabe - sounds like you've maybe had a negative experience in the past. ACtually strictly speaking all Christians are "born again" - that's the definition of a christian; someone who's left behind an old way of life and making a real attempt to live a new way of life. That's not to say Christians won't make mistakes, some are selfish, liars, adulterous etc etc etc, but they have a new perspective on life.

I'm a born again Christian and made a commitment at 13 (is that later in life?) - I didn't become a better person by any means, but I believe I 've found what I should be aiming for - namely to live a life like Jesus Christ. Impossible for humans, but with ( I believe) God's forgiveness and grace and patience, worth it and then some.

Supersox - your friend will not be trying to "recruit" you to a pyramid scheme/tupperware party/double glazing sales, but she will want you, maybe just once, to hear something of what she believes. I f I knew you and got talking over time, then I would probably do something similar.

Just because it's not a mainstream church like a CofE/Baptist/Presbyterian etc, doesn't mean that everyone who attends has had their intelligence surgically removed at the door.

If people raise their hands for example(they might not) then it's just an expression of how strongly they feel about the relationship they belive they have with Jesus Christ,. That might make you feel uncomfortable. Tbh I get a bit squirmy about some expressions of worship cos I feel like I'm intruding on someone's very intimate experience.

The congregation might not do anything of the sort - it might just be All things bright and beautiful with songs of praise type hats everywhere (eurgh).

If there's anything that made you cringe then just tell her - she'd either agree or laugh. It's good for Christians to get a view of how we look to "outsiders".

THere a minority of "christian" churches as madamez said which will be bordering on the culty. THey are not biblical and will be generally led by one overbearing and power hungry leader. They're prone to split ocaasionally so find out how new and what size your friend's church is - that might give you an idea.

I'm just so glad that Wannabe said "generally" so many times in her post cos that really was quite the most sweeping generalisation of Christianity I have read in a long time.

Run! Run for the hills!

Bobsmum: as you acknowledge, there are some right nutters out there calling themselves christians. (just like there are right nutters calling themselves astrologers/tupperware party planners/insurance salespeople and those who think the Da VInci COde is anything other than a mountain of bollocks) I don;t think anyone's dissing your beliefs when advising the OP to check out the individual organisation she's been invited to attend before leaving her DCs unattended there.

Oh, and just a BTW for religious believers of any shape or form out there: people who don't share your views don't need to come along and listen to change their minds. Many of us are perfectly well aware of all the tenets of your belief and, while we might appreciate your individual human good qualities of kindness, integrity, joke-telling, crossword-compiling or spectacular sex appeal, we still don't accept mythologies as facts. And sitting listening to them for a couple of hours will not change our minds.

I think it would be nice if you gave her the benefit of the doubt and went once. If you're not happy with it, you can without prejudice, tell her it wasn't really your scene and would she mind if you/ the kids didn't go again.

I went to a multidenominational school (unbaptised at the time, to any faith myself) and went to church/ temple with friends from various Christian religions. (It was Ireland and at the time there were practically no non-Christians around, otherwise I would have tried that too.) There was only ever one religion I didn't feel comfortable being around, out of let me see, 6. Presbyterian, Church of Ireland, Methodist, Roman Catholic, Jehovah's Witness and Mormon.

I think it might be less daunting than you fear. Out of the six I mentioned, I felt very welcome at most of those and only once ever felt I was being "groomed", iyswim.

Give it a go. It's a nice thing to do for your friend and since she sounds like a nice person, I'm sure she won't mind if you don't like it.

supersox - just because it's not a 'mainstream' church doesn't mean it's dodgy. Just be cautious. To give you a perspective, my kids have 2 sets of godparents. One couple is c of e, the others go to a different - probably what you would call happy clappy () - they're lovely people, very intelligent and their church is great. Some churches in my town however are a bit too way out there for me incliding one which harkens back to the 'good ol days' where women have to wear hats and aren't allowed to speak in church.

That's why I'd check it out before saying you're happy with it. I hope it goes well and your kids have fun. Us CHristians can be good friends if you give us a go...

Thanks to you all for all your very sound advice.

Differing approaches as I would have expected, all of which I have thoroughly digested. I don't tend to take any leaps of faith without counselling opinions, which definitely helps me.

Really don't want to offend my friend, so will go along but I think it's a foregone conclusion...won't be doing it a second time. Just hope she accept it and we can still be friends.