Has anyone ever sorted out a completely, utterly, fucked up life?

[WindfallenArch]

I've no job, no friends, a disastrous marriage, no money, family all dead. I have two tween kids who used to make it all worthwhile, but now look at me with contempt and have no interest in being in the same room as me let alone doing something together. I'm a 42 year old fat alcoholic and I'm utterly pointless. I drag myself sadly through each day and I see no joy in anything at all. It hurts in my heart all the time I'm awake.
Has anyone ever sorted themselves out after fucking up everything they touched?

Sorry for the self pity. Today is particularly excruciating.

Morning Wind.
I just want to say firstly a huge well done for admitting it on here - with a hundred and something posters and they're just the ones posting, it would be tempting to conceal. There may have been some in vino veritas - only you know. Your mum is a huge trigger. Huge. You said yesterday you'd just started with sorting out the worst bit of life - and I think that's going to prove very true. The abuse you suffered at the hands of your mother may need more than AA - my upbringing was much less traumatic but I needed therapy - and there are obvious other things like work, thank you need in the fullness of time. Until then these triggers need a plan. I hope you will find women in AA you can ring when you need to - you have my number - you can post here and splurge all of that stuff out. Next time - because there will be a next time - you have a plan.

And secondly you absolutely sum up the indignity and humiliation that is drinking once you've been to AA. Crikey, it's awful.
I drank for 18 months on and off after my first meeting. Never managed to stop as soon as you did last night. Serious respect to you.

Remember the thing about cravings attenuating. Yours will have started too and sadly pour in any alcohol at the top and they start back again. So just be super aware and super kind to yourself today. Meeting? Try and share if you can. I know it's scary. Here is good but the power you take out of it by talking about it, face to face, with actual people, is huge.

Cross posted with you and a lot of other wise ladies. Text back as above, it's assertive and not inflammatory.

Just tell it like it is - that this is your background and you've spent forever blocking it out and it bloody hurts. That's not self pitying, it's the truth. You've never dealt with her sober. Those people there, they have dealt with all kinds sober. And you are ready to learn.

Massive respect to you for your honesty and character Wind . I know ((((((hugs))))) aren't conventional but somehow they feel right.

I'd be saying she gets the phone no matter what. If she's willing to buy her a phone then she does it because her granddaughter is an amazing person not because she is able to answer questions on an exam. A computer can do that. Computers can love and be kind to people.

But actually an iPhone is a bit of a crap present.

Nice day out would be more fun.

Wind, your head at the minute is like a washing machine, after my first AA meeting I went on a bender too, the thing about it is we have this thing in our head that alcohol will solve our problem, when in fact alcohol is probably the root cause of our problems.

Re your mum buying 10year old daughter an iPhone, is she f*ing insane???? Giving a ten year old child unfettered access to the internet is the same as giving an alcoholic free reign in an off license, it can only lead to problems when a child goes into things they shouldn't AND people who are out to exploit young people can hide behind a veil of secrecy, tell your mum if she buys your daughter an iPhone it will be boiled in the kettle. If your mum is that desperate to treat your daughter get her to take her to the cinema, clothes shopping etc, I think there should be some sort of reward for your daughter if she worked hard - if only because she may feel left out if other friends are being treated

As for you you need to get yourself sorted first, you can then look at the relationship you have with your mother, but I would leave it for a while - you know part of my story, and I have had to keep my mother at arms length - a lot of my issues would stem from her. This culminated when she gave DW a guilt trip about us splitting up (I sent my brother to speak to her about that)

Focus on the getting sober initially, take this as being a lesson, a lesson that you are powerless over alcohol - and use it as a building block, try and remember how you felt when trying to make yourself sick and remember that is what alcohol does to you.

At your next aa meeting get the number of other members and have them on hand for when you get the urge to drink. I don't know you but I'll pm you my number, if you can't get anyone else to answer ring me at any time you feel you are going to drink (day or night) and I'll do my best to stop you drinking.

fanastic I genuinely don't know what the appropriate response to her is anymore I did cut contact with her for about a year and all that lead to was her not telling me my brother was dying in hospital. No matter what has happened in the past, when a woman calls you up to say her son is dead at 37, the only response is to offer an olive branch - there is no other thing you can do. Its an uneasy and brittle truce, but my children love her, or perhaps the experiences enormous wealth can offer. She's never been anything other than a whirlwind of gifts and expensive days out to them. Plus her new husband is a nice man and they love him to bits. I really, really don't want to deprive them of contact with them simply because I can see way into the future there will be some difficult realizations for them and I will have to explain myself to them on a number of points. D

Despite all the doom and gloom I've posted on here, they are at the moment happy, well adjusted kids. This is because when mummy falls asleep on the sofa, for them, its no different when they fall asleep on the sofa. When mummy slips on the bathroom floor, its no different from all the times they slip and bang their knee. Mummy gets tired.

They're 10 and 11. I've got about 20 minutes before the penny drops, and possibly the eldest is already furrowing her eyebrows more than she should.

"That lovely week in a chocolate box thatched cottage on the Isle of Wight was idyllic wasn't it mum? Actually, now I come to think of it, you know that lovely night where we played cluedo and had those funny chocolates with the piping on, why did you sleep on the living room floor that night mum? I really wanted you to put me to bed after such a lovely day but you wouldn't wake up , hang on a minute...."

In the middle of all those recriminations that will inevitably come, I don't want them to ask, aged 19, calling from an executive suite in Venice, funded by my mum, why I never let them see Granny growing up.

She is this weird shape shifting chimera of a person. The person she is with with her new husband is odd, little girl lost. All little twinkly giggles and 'oh you know me, I'm so silly'. I have no idea how she keeps it up. Perhaps people really do take on new personalities in new relationships.

She is still cold as stone and terrifying when she speaks to me alone.

She is am extremely senior psycho dynamic and bereavement counsellor, at the top of her profession, very famous in her field, the chairwoman of a hospice trust and a lying, violent sadist.

Shes like my own personal incendiary device

Ye gods, did that strike a chord. Not my mum, but my ex. Get it out in your next meeting. This is why they exist. I've got to go out now but I'll be back a little later. I have my own ongoing battle with alcohol, and your honesty, humour, intelligence and empathy has been a fascinating and inspiring read.

Flipping heck, Wind, I'm no expert but that seriously sounds like some sort of personality disorder.

Wind - well done for your honesty - key to a successful programme in AA is complete honesty at all times - it's actually incredibly freeing to not have to lie!

And as for pouring the rest of the bottle away - incredible. I had several weeks in AA before I was able to stop. Each drink was less and less enjoyable until one day I just wanted to stay sober more than I wanted to get drunk.

Today is a new day so I think a meeting would be a great idea and as pp said - be extra kind and aware of yourself as that craving has now been re-set and might jump out at you at any point.

I love the self-awareness I am already seeing in your posts - looking at your behaviour with regards to your mum and worrying if you are writing a poor me script is really productive - it's so important to be able to see when we might be doing something we have the power to change.

I think the message above is great to send to your Mum - but equally, you need to accept that you cannot change how she behaves - only how you react to it. So if she did go ahead and buy the iPhone, you need to try to take away the power that could have on you. You can always explain to your daughter that you don't want her to have a phone and keep hold of it until you think she is ready. You can also explain how proud you are of her for the effort rather than the result but that Granny thinks a bit differently. It's very unlikely that your mum will have given any thought or consideration to how much this means to you - it's just a chance for her to show off so don't take it personally and try to reduce the importance of it for you too.

Another AA member would be able to work on that with you face to face but the main aim would be to realise and accept that your mum is a sick person (in a gentle sense of the word) and how she behaves is nothing to do with you and you can't change it. So you try to accept that and instead focus your energies on changing the way you feel about her behaviour.

Bit long, sorry, but there's a lot to talk about!

Hope it's a good day.

Hi wind, sorry if this has been mentioned but there is a fabulous, long running thread for posters embracing sobriety - it's called Dry15, in the relationships section - lots of support & help there. Also, there is a whole 'soberverse' of blogs and sites that are brilliant. I stopped drinking earlier this year and couldn't have done it without the thread and the blogs and books like Jason Vale's Kick the Drink Easily.
Try mummywasasecretdrinker.blogspot.co.uk/ as a starting point.
Good luck, am rooting for you.

windfallen just to echo what someone else said - I don't think I would have believed you if you hadn't slipped up along the way! It sounds as though you really learnt a lot from the whole experience so that's great. I hope you find today's meeting helpful. I'm still rooting for you :)

1. You threw the rest down the sink. You are awesome. The strength that must have taken is incomprehensible.
2. Your mother is out of order. You are talking sense on this so if you can, use this amazing strength of yours to quietly and politely tell her so. I'm with lapins suggestion on handling it.
3. Is it time for you to feel able to ask your GP for counselling or similar to help with the problems you're now trying to deal with? I don't mean the drink this time, I mean the reasons you turned to the drink to start with.

I don't know much, may be too soon? But help with coping with triggers such as your mother sounds important.

1. Did you notice the comment up there from totalturmoil? A literary agent would be interested in reading a book by you. That's how talented you are.

Hope it's a good meeting x

Wind, this chilled me to the bone...
She is still cold as stone and terrifying when she speaks to me alone

I'm so sorry you didn't have a loving normal mother. No one should have to be on the receiving end of that. You say you don't want to go NC because of your girls but can you try to disassociate yourself in your own mind so she doesn't have as big an effect on you. Perhaps pretend she is someone else's mother or you are both characters in a play.

Does your Mum have issues with dependency? I'm intrigued by how both you and your brother used alcohol in the same way. Does your Mum know that you USED to drink? I wonder how much she knows about the negative affect she has on you.

X

These are some of the final texts from my brother. Totally verbatim,. so they will probably be too long for anyone to read, but it was cathartic for me to read them again. . I wish I'd not let him down.

The first one is the thing about the money

'ello, I've forgotten your email address.

I'm in a bit of a spot. I earn 55k now. which is approaching the top of my game in my line of work. I'm also going to be 35 in a month and a bit.
Mum has been talking to me about giving me part of my inheritance early to get me out of the fact that I'm 34, I have 13k savings, and in terms of London - the only place where I can earn this - it's still bugger all. But I'd feel guilty about doing that because you lucky bastards had the capital to buy years ago.
If I was in the same position, married to a loaded husband, tbh, I'd do the same thing, bit I feel a bit nausious about accepting it.
I'm in this rent contract until August next year, and I REALLY need to pole-vault the bottom rung of the morgage ladder by then before it's too late. No bank will loan a 25 year mortgage to a 40 year old.
what do you think?
I should come round and see your daughters sometimes now that at least one of them isn't scared of me. Why don't we stay in touch more?
you won't tell mum I said this by the way? To be honest, if I was married to a loaded husband and had a kid in the "london trap", I'd do the same thing. Fuck it. I want to live in socialist sweden where everyone lives in the same kind of flat and they don't have a class system.

***

1. I never asked mum. she never promised me anything, she just brought it up
2. I told her that I wanted to pay back at £500/month but she said no
3. She never quoted a figure
4. Mum loves her grand children - can't you give her credit for changing?
5. Nobody meant you any harm in this. You took offence
6. If you're hard up then say so
7. I care about you, even if you are being a right bitch about this
8. If I didn't, I wouldn't have sent you the first message
9. I did so under the presumption that she would help you out as well. Im sorry that she won't, but it is her choice
10. I haven't drunk for 7 months. I'm a "recovering alcoholic". YOUR life is bad? Try not being able to get to sleep until 4am.

you got as far as typing this cryptic statement. please continue typing. I am interested. and I love you.

mum is an idiot. she killed dad with stress. we both know this. she's fucking guilty about it and regrets it. do you have any more news?

also, where were you when dad died? I visited her every other weekend.

This was my reply to that, not him

WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK?? where was I when he died??? What was she telling you??????
Mum practically lived at my house when dad died - she was basically my lodger. I fed her took her places and bought her loads and loads of clothes. Ask her. She lived in my spare room
Why the hell did you even tell me? If she favours you then great for you but why rub my nose in it? She's hurt me too many times. The year she spent 600 quid on suits for you for Xmas I didn't even get a card. She hates me. I'm sorry - I'm glad you have a nice life. I was hurt. She makes me feel like shit. I thought you were crowing

If you're talking about mum's favouritism, in her own words, she said I was "easier". I was less rebellious in her eyes. Or rather, I was more secretive.

If I was in mum's position, I would've given both of us help to get a house.

Alright. I know that mum is trying to be different now. I just texted her demanding that she rights some of the wrongs. I wasn't polite about it.

The origin of this thing was mum saying "you know I would help you?". I thought it was right to tell you. That shouldn't have resulted in us fighting.
I'm angry about what mum did to yoiu, but I trust her to change. She's a fucking idiot. One that is changeable.

*

I remember the pouring water on your head thing - I was in the back garden and me and the neighbours were listening to all of the screaming. It was embarassing - even at about 13. God my family are weird.
My childhood was pretty boring. I had all these board games I never got to play. I took some to friends houses, but they're difficult to get on a bicycle, and you weren't that interested. I liked strategic ones, like diplomacy, which we NEVER played. I have played 2 games of it now - on the internet. Both took over a year!

Once I beat dad, I played chess on a computer for hours. It was quite repetitive. I eventually beat it every time after learning its moves. yawn.

Banging on the floor with her cane. Why didn't she just install a fucking bell in the kitchen? She never EVER did anything for herself. He had to do everything. I've now got the knack of just figuring it out and saying "how about this: this is unarguably fair" and more importantly, being confident about it.

Which neither of us had. We were both terrified of mum, then got dad into trouble when she was away, cause it was a fucking holiday evert minute she wasnt in the house.

I had a lot of detentions. Every bloody time it was the same.
Get home. Bollocking from mum. She once hit me in the face with snot bubbling from my nose cause I was crying, and the snot flew across the room, then went "that's disgusting" and hit me again for what was apparently my fault. Then got sent to bed. Then at 10pm dad gets home, when I'm asleep, and you can hear her telling dad "go and tell him off", so I get woken up and bollocked by someone who can't be arsed with it but has to hit me anyway.
Once I did as I was told and went to bed and put my cupboard up against the door. Then put my feet up against it to stop dad forcing his way in, then he was getting bollocked himself so I walked out and said "get on with it" and let them do it.
They confiscated my computer for 5 months WHILST I WAS DOING A GCSE PROJECT TO WRITE A GAME ON THAT COMPUTER. I had to go to my mate's house to finish my fucking techology project. Eventually got the 2nd highest mark of the year (38/40, if I remember right), but not without weekend trps to bore the fuck out of my mate whilst programming it whilst he sat on the bed and read Kerrang.
One day I grabbed the key out of the lock on her bedroom door, locked it, used the other one to unlock dad's door and get my computer out, then left them locked in there for about an hour whilst I remembered what my hobby was like.
I now work in IT. No thanks to mum.
All of this was because she was insecure, malnourished and probably drinking too much judging by her sleeping patterns. I don't know but I see some things that make me think.
She just needed a rational adult around which dad apparently once was, but lost his position on. I don't take her shit, but I don't fight with her either. She, as you said, admits she has done wrong. You hate her. I'm more easily changed.
Not this year by any stretch, but one day we should get together for Christmas again. Hell, there were toddlers at Claridges last time we went.

Anyway. That's my take on mum. Love you, and sorry for not seeing you and Granny - I won't go to the extent of alcoholism, at least to say that whilst in case it was making a dick of herself, I didn't have that problem, and for me it was probably worse. I was immobile on weekends and became a hermit.

Thanks so much for sharing those texts. It can't have been easy. Your mother sounds psycopathic. It's sweet that your brother thought she could change but I suspect she has a personality disorder and they are notoriously difficult to change from.

What was the water incident...dare I ask?!

From those snippets alone. She's utterly monstrous. Part of me thinks that you going NC can't be any more stressful and damaging than staying in touch with her.
You are so much stronger than you realise, that's the joyous gift bestowed when raised by a narcissistic parent.
One day at a time, one meeting at a time. KOKO

And you didn't let him down. Your parents let you both down x

Wind, just wanted to delurk to say I admire you so much for everything you've achieved in a few short days. I also think that you would greatly benefit from some counselling when you feel strong enough to help deal with the consequences of growing up in such a dysfunctional family.

Hello queen :-) I'm in two minds about counselling. My mum is an extremely senior mental health professional and quite literally wrote the (a) book on psycho-dynamic approaches to trauma. At Christmas the house is drowned in cards from grateful ex clients whose life she has turned around. Years after the fact they reply with such gratitude. She's respected and, in her field, a 'famous' expert. She starred a cancer hospice single handedly and there are lots of photos of her shaking hands and cutting ribbons with prince Edwards wife, Sophie ( I
Forget her title - are they still married?). She runs the local large carnival committee and to her new husband she's a remarkable, strong widow who has lost a son and yet does amazing things for all those around her. She's incredibly charismatic - even now, sometimes I want to take the blue pill and decide I was a crappy kid and she was a bit stressed, and maybe we could be friends after all the water under the bridge?

I'm rambling now. In my experience, counselling just makes me heap all the shit in one place until even I can't believe how big the pile is.

Like I said upthread - it reads like a cheaply written novel, and even counsellors start looking bewildered once I get started.

Windfall you can sort this out, you just need a bit of help to do it.

Just because it is shit at the moment doesn't mean it always will be. Yeah, yeah I hear you say - what do you know?

Well, I've been there and it's OK now. Get some help - it can't get any worse can it?

Windfallen, no words of wisdom, just checking in with you.

Reading your posts/your background it becomes even more obvious how strong and resourceful you have had to be over the years.
You are not a failure or useless and don't owe anybody an apology for having slipped.

You may find that counselling is not enough for you and that years of in-depth psychotherapy might be required to get to the bottom of all your 'stuff', and you will know when or if that is something you want to embark on.

Many powerful and 'charming' people have a flip side to their personalities that only those closest to them get to see.
I am so sorry and feel quite protective and maternal towards the girl in you

www.amazon.co.uk/Surviving-Toxic-Family-yourself-dysfunctional/dp/0692282580
www.elephantjournal.com/2012/05/12-ways-to-deal-with-a-toxic-familyfamily-member/
www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00IQY6Y5W/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
Family should be about support and love but for so many people, myself included, they are the root of problems and misery in adult life. I've had lots of therapy to deal with my background but I can see why you have an ambivalence to the idea of therapy.
Maybe reading materials on this could be a good starting point?

Well, she passed the test, so I'm going to have to deal with the bloody phone, which will be exhilarating.

Apologies for launching into that ^ it's not something I imagine anyone wants to barrel in and offer their two penneth on. I don't know how to access anything like psychotherapy - Turning Point and a ten minute GP appointment isn't a place to even begin to say 'stuff happened' more importantly, the things that make me want to rip the skin off my legs with a cheese grater is the stuff I've done wrong. The things when I'm at fault. The things I've not put on here because I'm being 'poor me'. I try not to cross the streams very often - if I compartmentalise all the crap I can sort of trot along

Anyhoo - I am very sober, I've been to two meetings today and it is what it is. I'm getting better. Sorry if I'm getting anyone down.

I completely feel your pain! I'm only young (23) but I have been at rock bottom.
Not very long ago I saw myself sat in the A&E waiting room waiting for a physicatric assessment. And everytime this happens as this wasn't the first, the first thing I turn too is alcohol, whether it being my age or not I do not know.
Now I am the happiest I've ever seen myself. And I've even taken on the challenge of becoming a step parent! It was a massive thing for me to do with my mental state but it seems to be going well so far.
I tried counselling and it just really wasn't for me. But what you should do is write a list of things you used to enjoy doing, whether it be going for a swim, to going for a long walk in the country. Then each day achieve one of these, it will gradually get easier and you'll feel so much more happier in yourself!
I would definitely lay off the drink though, it doesn't help situations!