Was this rape/sexual abuse of some sort?

[breakfastatchanel]

This is something that happened a few years ago when I was at University living on campus in my first year. But I am just thinking about it now because something I read reminded me of it. And I'm curious if this would actually be considered rape or sexual abuse of some sort? I never thought it was before but now I'm wondering.

So basically after a night out I went back with this guy to his room (in one of the accommodation on campus). I wasn't that drunk, I can remember everything that happened and was perfectly lucid so that wasn't really an issue. But anyway I for some reason thought it was a good idea to have be promiscuous with boys I hardly knew because everyone else seemed to be doing it. Anyway, I guess we were kissing on the bed and then he took off my underwear and started to give me oral sex. I remember not liking as it was quite rough and regretting my decision but I pretended to be enjoying it or at least I didn't do anything and just put up with it trying to convince myself it was fine (not his fault though) anyway then he turned me over unto my front and carried on giving me oral sex and using his hands. Then he suddenly started to have sex with me which caught me by surprise. I would have had sex with him but I would never have agreed to do it with no condom. But once he started I just decided that the risk of infection and pregnancy was already there and I would already have to go to the clinic in the morning anyway so I didn't say anything and just let him carry on without any sign. I didn't like it either but I didn't want to cause any embarrassment for me or him so I just waited for it to be over and pretended it was okay.

I took the morning after pill the next day and then about a week later I went to the clinic to get checked out. Because I actually had thrush from it (for the only time in my life) but wanted to get checked out anyway. The nurse wanted to hear what happened and was asking questions and I told her that I would never normally have unprotected sex and she asked questions I ended up explaining what happened just so she wouldn't think I was reckless and because she was asking. I remember she seemed to be sympathetic and take it quite seriously when I told her which I was surprised about because I thought it was all me and normal. But she never said it was sexual assault or anything like that I just remember her face and the way she spoke like she felt bad for me rather than saying it was all my fault. i dunno though.

So what would this be classed as? Or would it just be me having sex that I didn't want to have but not saying anything and getting myself into a silly position (so to speak).

It's not really bothering me personally and never really did and it was ages ago anyway but I'm just curious in general about this kind of thing. Thanks.

p.s. Also in my second year of university I remember I was kissed against my will twice by two different people on two different occasions. I did the same thing and just pretended it was fine and mutual so I didn't pull away straight away to avoid embarrassment because it was both people I knew who hung around with the same people as me so i didn't want things to be awkward if they thought they had imposed on me. So I just waited a few seconds and then pulled away and just continued to act as friends. One of them did up against a wall. Both times it was totally by surprise and quite forceful. Was that sexual assault? Even though it was just kissing?

Yes, a suprise but you can't then pretend to enjoy it and call the man a rapist afterwards?! You can't tell a man one thing that is rely quite important legally that means he is behaving within the remit of the law and then say he has abused me because I "pretended". That's not fair on him!

Imagine the man in Thai scenario is your son, I.shine he had a tipsy fumble where the girl seemed absolutely fine and enjoying it, with no mention of a condom being a absolute need, to then be down the police station on rape charges, because actually she didn't like it, and was pretending. How angry would you feel as a parent? Those accusation could ruin his career, his life?

They were both tipsy apparently.

I'm not saying the op is faultless. I am saying that penetrating her without her knowledge and without a condom was wrong. If it had been done to me, I'd see this as a very grey area, just like the OP has stated.

It is possible that he turned her over because he knew what he wanted to do and if she was on her front she likely would have objected to sex without a condom.

If I was the parent of this guy, and I knew what happened, I'd tell him to be very careful in future about penetrating a wonan without a condom when she cannot see what he is doing.

Also, I don't think the OP is calling him a rapist.

Seriously for the last time, please! (I know it may not have been clear in OP but I know at least some of you have read my subsequent posts which make it clear). The issue is not that he carried on after the initial penetration because I pretended it was fine. The issue is not the foreplay because gain I pretended it was fine. The issue or thing I'm questioning is the initial penetration which I had no warning or opportunity to say no or do anything it is was already done. End of story. That is all I am asking about. Feel free to comment on the other parts of my story all you want but please understand that is all I am asking about.

This whole thing where Jiggly and JizzOmelette don't believe me about what happened is getting ridiculous and I won't bother responding anymore as I have no idea why they don't believe me. But it is clearly something which is very simple and could easily happen without me having any warning. Yes Jiggly, I felt his 'penis inserting itself in to me'. By that time it had already happened obviously otherwise how would I feel it. The issue about the fact I should have said no after that is a completely different matter and obviously I should have if I wasn't enjoying it but one more time that is not what the issue is. His penis was already 'felt inside of me' because it was. Sorry for getting graphic I really am not enjoying this but for the last time that is what happened and I'm not going to explain the same thing anymore.

Thank you for replies of those who understand what I'm asking and for the couple of new people who may or may not have read my subsequent posts (I'm not sure if you have. I know I may not have it clear in my OP) thank you for your replies either way.

p.s. the first part of my last post was addressed more the people who I know have read my posts where I explain what the issue is already. I'm not getting inpatient with anyone new as I guess it's my fault for not explaining clearly enough in my OP.

I understand, breakfast.:)

I think we can all agree its sexual misconduct, but it is not perceived in law as assault/rape.

We can all have bad experiences that leave us upset but it does not mean what happened to us is a crime.

I'm a survivor of DV with both sexual and physical abuse. Having been cross examined in court for what seemed like days, I can assure you what we may feel is a grey are in the eyes of the law it probably isn't. It's one or the other when it comes to sexually aggravated crimes, and the Chad Evans case has really hindered progress for women in defining what is rape/assault.

I would say in the kindest way OP had a dreadful sexual experience, and needs to seek support in becoming more acertive and aware of controlling sexual experiences and that she must stipulate and show objection and the need for a condom, but legally was not a victim of abuse/rape.

Just saw new posts. Neither of us was drunk.

Bluebelle - Yes exactly that's what I mean if I had seen what he was doing or had opportunity to say something or do something then i would have said something before it happened and asked him about a condom. If there was no condom I would not have had sex with him. Also to be fair he didn't even know if I would have been willing to have sex with him at all. As it so happens I know I probably would have agreed (if I'd have had the opportunity to) but I definitely wouldn't have without a condom.

breakfast if you engage in foreplay and partake in it, percievably enjoying it, then the natural assumption for the other sexual party is to move on to piv. You have to state that is not what you want! What do you want? A full blown conversation before piv? Do you wa t to be asked "can I put my penis in your vagina?" During every act of intercourse?

We are not in a court of law and I don't think there was any mention of the op filing a lawsuit. This is most definitely a grey area and something the op wanted to clarify her feelings on.

I'm sorry you went through what you did. Jiggly. We all see situations through our own eyes and are products of our pasts.

I know in my drinking days I got into some predicaments that are grey areas in my mind, too, but we live and learn from them.

I hope you are ok, breakfast.

So what your saying is Bluebell every man should now stop all proceedings during intimacy and ask boldly and clearly "can I enter my penis in you?". Then dependant on the answer, continue or cease.

This would have to apply to every man and woman having sex regardless of marital status, length of relationship also Surely that's not reasonable?

You are wrong jiggly, even if the foreplay was enjoyable, it is not a green light to go to penetration. And certainly when the other party cannot see what is happening.

I don't understand the depth of fear for your son. It is not that difficult a concept to grasp. Most young men navigate their sexual experiences without ending up in court.

I am astounded you think a man entering a woman from behind without a condom and without her consent is not a grey area.

If you are telling your son this ok, then maybe you are right to feel concerned for him.

And on that note, I'm going to bed. We are not going to agree and will just continue to go around in circles.

"breakfast if you engage in foreplay and partake in it, percievably enjoying it, then the natural assumption for the other sexual party is to move on to piv."

Consent for one sexual act doesn't equal automatic consent for another. I was expecting that he'd want to but I never imagined I wouldn't have the opportunity to stop him before it actually happened. i have already explained.

"You have to state that is not what you want! What do you want? A full blown conversation before piv? Do you wa t to be asked "can I put my penis in your vagina?" During every act of intercourse?"

No, but apparently the man has to be told "btw I don't want to have sex with you. Just in case you decide to suddenly do it without any warning before I can stop you." So apparently it is according to your views that needs to be a 'full blown conversation..during every act of intercourse' not mine.

So I hope every partner you've engaged with foreplay which has led to piv bluebell has explicitly asked you clearly if it was ok to proceed with penetration, otherwise by your own understanding you've been a victim of alleged abuse. This includes any husbands you may have or have had and any long term partners and one night stand. Regardless if you saw it coming or not, apparently now all men must clearly gain consent to proceed from perceived mutual consented foreplay to piv.

So we shouldn't really call it "foreplay" anymore, because it's not "before" anything, it's an act of its own. So perhaps now men and women can engage in mutual masturbation, and then with exicit consent proceed to intercourse.

The world has officially gone barking if two teenagers/adults can't go from co we ring and enjoyable foreplay to copulation without one of them being brandished and abuser

or in my case 'I don't want to have sex with you without a condom' but either way.

Bluebelle - Thank you again for replies. goodnight.

Bluebelle - Thank you again for replies. Goodnight :)

Why would I disagree with a post expressing an opinion I shared?

Who's arguing? I thought this was a discussion? Maybe it's both. I never actually said it was sexual abuse or defined it by a label which is what I was wanting a discussion about in the first place. So I don't know what you mean by that. We are discussing the specifics of what happened and who should and shouldn't have said what etc. I am simply replying to what you have been posting. I don't know what you mean by 'the mass majority' as I don't think this is true (from looking at this thread alone even which a lot of people didn't seem to know what I was asking at least at first anyway) and even if it were that doesn't mean they would necessarily be right anyway of course. I don't know much about law but I'm pretty sure it would a grey area in the eyes of the law too and if not it doesn't matter anyway as it's still worthy of discussion and is clearly an issue of consent about a sexual act. It's obvious. Even you said yourself at one point it was a 'surprise'.

If people (like you) bring up things about what actually happened or other points which need explaining by me or which I don't agree with then I will do so which I have done with you. It may constitute an 'argument' but that is just part of trying to have a wider discussion. I have not excluded you from the discussion (but I agree we seem to just be going round in circles so I don't think I will reply much more). All I've tried to do is explain what happened (you didn't believe me) and then disagree with some of your opinions. There's nothing wrong with that. You are doing the same... Except you seem to be getting more personal... saying you don't believe what happened... and to be honest a lot of what you're saying doesn't make sense but I guess we just don't agree... It seems you are more interested in saying what type of person you think I am and saying I'm not worth engaging with instead of carrying on the discussion or 'argument' whatever it is with me and replying to my point. But I wholeheartedly agree it is going round in circles and we should end it I think.

Jiggly what's your fuckin problem. Why the aggression? Your behaving like a dick.

So by engaging in foreplay you are consenting to piv? Nope.

You consent to piv by consenting to piv.

What about kissing in bed. That would normally lead to foreplay. So if the man stuck his finger straight into her vagina thats all sweet because he presumed consent?
Nah.

Oswin that's nasty and uncalled for.