Was this rape/sexual abuse of some sort?

[breakfastatchanel]

This is something that happened a few years ago when I was at University living on campus in my first year. But I am just thinking about it now because something I read reminded me of it. And I'm curious if this would actually be considered rape or sexual abuse of some sort? I never thought it was before but now I'm wondering.

So basically after a night out I went back with this guy to his room (in one of the accommodation on campus). I wasn't that drunk, I can remember everything that happened and was perfectly lucid so that wasn't really an issue. But anyway I for some reason thought it was a good idea to have be promiscuous with boys I hardly knew because everyone else seemed to be doing it. Anyway, I guess we were kissing on the bed and then he took off my underwear and started to give me oral sex. I remember not liking as it was quite rough and regretting my decision but I pretended to be enjoying it or at least I didn't do anything and just put up with it trying to convince myself it was fine (not his fault though) anyway then he turned me over unto my front and carried on giving me oral sex and using his hands. Then he suddenly started to have sex with me which caught me by surprise. I would have had sex with him but I would never have agreed to do it with no condom. But once he started I just decided that the risk of infection and pregnancy was already there and I would already have to go to the clinic in the morning anyway so I didn't say anything and just let him carry on without any sign. I didn't like it either but I didn't want to cause any embarrassment for me or him so I just waited for it to be over and pretended it was okay.

I took the morning after pill the next day and then about a week later I went to the clinic to get checked out. Because I actually had thrush from it (for the only time in my life) but wanted to get checked out anyway. The nurse wanted to hear what happened and was asking questions and I told her that I would never normally have unprotected sex and she asked questions I ended up explaining what happened just so she wouldn't think I was reckless and because she was asking. I remember she seemed to be sympathetic and take it quite seriously when I told her which I was surprised about because I thought it was all me and normal. But she never said it was sexual assault or anything like that I just remember her face and the way she spoke like she felt bad for me rather than saying it was all my fault. i dunno though.

So what would this be classed as? Or would it just be me having sex that I didn't want to have but not saying anything and getting myself into a silly position (so to speak).

It's not really bothering me personally and never really did and it was ages ago anyway but I'm just curious in general about this kind of thing. Thanks.

p.s. Also in my second year of university I remember I was kissed against my will twice by two different people on two different occasions. I did the same thing and just pretended it was fine and mutual so I didn't pull away straight away to avoid embarrassment because it was both people I knew who hung around with the same people as me so i didn't want things to be awkward if they thought they had imposed on me. So I just waited a few seconds and then pulled away and just continued to act as friends. One of them did up against a wall. Both times it was totally by surprise and quite forceful. Was that sexual assault? Even though it was just kissing?

He should not have penetrated you without a condom and he should have given you some indication to penetration so you could say yes or no. If it is still on your mind then you know something wasn't quite right in that situation.
I was in a situation where I was a (very drunk) willing participant, however intercourse became too rough, I asked him to stop, be gentle but he just kept going like I was invisible. Yet you can't claim rape/sexual assault because you were at some point a willing participant. It still preys on my mind because I know it wasn't right.

This is why education surrounding consent is so important. No one should feel like they have to have sex when they don't want to. The guy you were with may not have realised you didn't want it but from what you describe-the rough oral sex, unsafe sex, didn't respect you and your needs/sexual desires. Reflects wider patriarchal culture.

You weren't too keen on oral. Well that's one heck of a step from kissing and a fumble. Presumably you consented to your pants coming off?

No, I don't think it was rape or assault. You could have said no but appeared to be a very willing partner.

This thread is quite graphic and I'm hoping it's not a wind up.

I think that whilst he may have practised bad sexual etiquette (by not checking / putting on a condom) it doesn't constitute rape or assault because he believed you were enjoying it.

It does speak to a wider culture though where you would rather continue with something that you're not enjoying than cause embarrassment. That you would rather go through the inconvenience of a morning after pill than speak up and insist on a condom because you don't want to make things awkward. You are entitled to say no OP, remember that!

I think the fact he couldn't see your face so couldn't really see if you were enjoying it, or ready for penetration, or even wanted it, is a bit grubby really and not something that would be acceptable in most situations where there hasn't been sex before.

Whether it was rape or not is difficult to know without actually being there. i think its a bit of a grey area and this is why juries often have so many problems finding people guilty in rape cases - because there is reasonable doubt.

I do think society has changed a bit now and most of the young people I know now get specific verbal consent the first time they have sex with someone as a matter of course.

I hope you're ok OP xx

To be fair by the time he stopped oral and started to move into position you would have had time to turn round or say something. That's unless he had a homing device on the end of his nob and managed to move into position in a split second.

This is obviously effecting you all this time later but you can argue it in all different ways. It was not rape or sexual assault but may have been bad manners. Either way you cannot put all of the blame on him.

Thanks for the replies. Some people don't seem to understand what I'm asking about. Please read my two subsequent posts after my OP as they should be clear what I'm actually asking about.

For example @OhTheRoses - To avoid me repeating myself please read my previous comments so you know what I'm asking about/what the potential issue actually is as it wasn't about the oral. And why would it be a wind up that makes me feel bad. But if it too graphic for this forum then I'm sorry I didn't realise?

I agree with Rebel Rogue, "Consenting or pretending to enjoy one sexual act,does not mean consent to all or any sexual acts." that is very true. And I think you are right on the question we should be considering, "The question here is ..did he have reasonable belief that you were a wiling participant?". And I also agree with the other people here who are saying he did something wrong by penetrating from behind (with no protection) when I was under the impression it was just foreplay. The more I think about it it confirms my suspicion it was wrong. I still don't know if it constitutes sexual abuse or anything. But sexual assault is about consent. And not being able to give consent before an act is committed is the same thing as saying no or struggling because it is either consent being withdrawn or explicitly denied or unable to give consent. So obviously this situation could potentially fall into the category of unable to give consent.

Also, it doesn't bother me personally. I'm just asking as a general point of interest because I was reading something online about consent etc. and it just reminded me of this.

@Jizzomelette - When I was in that position where he was behind me I was at first looking behind to see what he was doing but it was just foreplay so I stopped looking behind. Then when I couldn't know what he doing he penetrated me. It was a surprise to me. When having sex especially with someone for the first time I'd expect for there to be some warning that I can see that they are going to have sex with me. If they do decide to do things that way in the position and change position from being in front of me giving oral to changing positions to being behind to have sex then I would look behind to see what they are doing like I did but when he carried on giving oral I didn't realise he would then start having sex without any warning and without protection.

Not troll hunting are you ohtheroses?suggest you report the thread if you don't think it's real

@Jizzomellette - No I explained I had no warning in my last post. There was no lining things up because he was doing foreplay the whole time after putting me in that position, that's why I turned my head back and stopped looking at him to see what he was doing. It went straight from foreplay to penetration before I had any warning. If I had said no at the point the penetration would have already occurred. That is my whole point.

Yes I could have said no afterwards and I know I can and should feel like I can stop things when I'm not enjoying them but that's not the point of what questioning and is a separate issue.

No it wasn't.

You have had clear answers re this - how many more people would you like to tell you it was not abuse & how many times more would you care to keep providing the same graphic details?

So your telling me, this student male went from performing oral from behind to thrusting a penis straight in to your vagina in a split second?! With no earning, no knee shuffle, no repistioning of you or him, without needing to steady himself?!

That's just not feasible, unless his mouth is on the end of his penis.

I have never, ever known a man not need to get either me or him in to a slightly different position for penetration, just never.

Whilst I fi agree with you that sex without a condom from behind was serious sexual misconduct, at no point did you imply to the male in question you weren't happy with the situation.

Consent is not just verbal. If it was not clear you were happy about what was happening then he shouldn't have done it. Wrong in my books.

For the sake of the argument(i don't even care if this is all true or possible ir not,but i do care about consent issues).. Let's change the scenario a bit,woman and man are having piv sex,woman enjoys it/pretends ro enjoy it,man thrusts himself into her anus,woman is too shocked/ashamed/confused to say anything. Is it wrong?is it rape?

OP I have been in a similar situation. Consented to sex with condom but mid sex he whipped it off and carried on. I was too taken aback and unassertive to say anything. It left me angry that he put me in a vulnerable position.

Thinking about it, he wasn't the only person I have slept with who did this type of thing. I don't know what the answer is but you are not alone.

OP did not say "no" "don't" "stop", OP did not attempt to pull away, push him away. OP did fake pleasure and consent.

Look at this from the perspective of the male, he's having consensual oral sex and foreplay, his partner is "enjoying", he then begins penetration, and has no objection verbally or via body language, he continues with the sexual act, whilst his sexual partner seems to 've enjoying herself.

I mean c'mon! The man is clearly going to assume all is fine. He can't read OP's mind?!

You're not a victim. He is not a sex offender or rapist. You were an adult with no more or less reasoning than him. You indicated that you were enjoying and fully participating in it. He did not have psychic powers to know otherwise. Like anybody else he can only respond to the signals you're giving him. You never gave any indications otherwise.

No amount of word play and women need to be treated like little snowflake children ideology is going to change reality. So just stop.

I don't know if I'm allowed to be graphic on this forum now. I'm only doing it because people are asking me and/or questioning what happened so I'm replying/clearing things up for them. No one has actually said it is against forum rules to be graphic though? so since people are still questioning I'll explain again. And btw of course I don't want to be going into graphic detail whatsoever I'm just answering people's questioning/queries. And you might notice that not all the answers I received were clearly saying it wasn't sexual abuse. Some didn't understand what I was asking, some had queries about what happened/didn't seem to know exactly what happened and some were questioning it like I am. If I'm doing anything against forum rules with the subject matter then again, of course I'll stop? And I'm really sorry if this has upset anyone. I should have put a trigger warning for graphic content in the heading but I didn't intend for it to get graphic and also the title does give some indication to a certain extent on the subject matter at least but I guess not necessarily how graphic of course. I'm sorry again for not putting a warning and I don't know what the rules are?

I was not just oral whilst he was behind it was foreplay using fingers too (I know it's gross to say but I have to explain I guess). So I'm sorry but how on earth does that not add up or 'it just doesn't happen' for him to go immediately from foreplay to penetration. It's not that difficult to imagine. If you asking about 'lining things up' then he was obviously already 'lined up'.

If you still think that wasn't feasible. Then what are you saying would be the case? That I'm lying? That I knew what he was doing? I remember what happened. That is not in question. Yes, there was no warning until after it had already happened. And of course it's feasible from that type of foreplay to penetration.

I'm starting to feel OP that you want to be a victim of a crime? Having 're read the thread.

Is that what you want, I can tell you from personal experience, buckets of propanalol and anti depressant, and a court case. There is no bone in my body that wanted to be a victim of a sexually motivated assault and marital rape.

I think I'm best to leave the thread, It's become triggering for me. I do empathise with you, because you personally feel unhappy about the ordeal, but in the eyes of the law and general consensus you are not the victim of an assault.

omg can you please stop talking about it like I think the issue is that he carried on after I pretended it was fine. That is not what I'm questioning. I'm pretty the couple of people who are saying that now have read my subsequent posts which make clear what the issue is as I have even discussed it a bit with at least one of you. So why still the confusion.

blueshoesloose is absolutely spot on. In eveything she's written.

No of course it wasn't and it's worrying that you would even ask. You went along with it, you gave absolutely no indication of any doubt, in fact in your own words you pretended to enjoy it. You then went on to have incidents with two other men also. Its behavior like this that gets decent men into trouble and makes it incredibly difficult for women who genuinely have been assaulted and or raped.

Of course I don't want to be a victim of sexual assault. I've actually already said a couple of times it didn't bother me. This is a valid question. I don't care if it's not classed as abuse or whatever. I'm just asking and it's grey area I guess but I'm sure you can see why it is question about consent. I am not trying to compare it to anything else like rape/clear sexual assault or anything worse. My replies to you are literally describing to you what happened. Do you believe me that there was no warning when he went from foreplay to penetration now? That is all I'm trying to explain to you in my reply so what is the issue. You seem to be doubting that fact. If you believed it then would you think it was sexual abuse. I'm not even saying it was. I'm just questioning it as I find it interesting. I don't get what you're problem is.