Was this rape/sexual abuse of some sort?

[breakfastatchanel]

This is something that happened a few years ago when I was at University living on campus in my first year. But I am just thinking about it now because something I read reminded me of it. And I'm curious if this would actually be considered rape or sexual abuse of some sort? I never thought it was before but now I'm wondering.

So basically after a night out I went back with this guy to his room (in one of the accommodation on campus). I wasn't that drunk, I can remember everything that happened and was perfectly lucid so that wasn't really an issue. But anyway I for some reason thought it was a good idea to have be promiscuous with boys I hardly knew because everyone else seemed to be doing it. Anyway, I guess we were kissing on the bed and then he took off my underwear and started to give me oral sex. I remember not liking as it was quite rough and regretting my decision but I pretended to be enjoying it or at least I didn't do anything and just put up with it trying to convince myself it was fine (not his fault though) anyway then he turned me over unto my front and carried on giving me oral sex and using his hands. Then he suddenly started to have sex with me which caught me by surprise. I would have had sex with him but I would never have agreed to do it with no condom. But once he started I just decided that the risk of infection and pregnancy was already there and I would already have to go to the clinic in the morning anyway so I didn't say anything and just let him carry on without any sign. I didn't like it either but I didn't want to cause any embarrassment for me or him so I just waited for it to be over and pretended it was okay.

I took the morning after pill the next day and then about a week later I went to the clinic to get checked out. Because I actually had thrush from it (for the only time in my life) but wanted to get checked out anyway. The nurse wanted to hear what happened and was asking questions and I told her that I would never normally have unprotected sex and she asked questions I ended up explaining what happened just so she wouldn't think I was reckless and because she was asking. I remember she seemed to be sympathetic and take it quite seriously when I told her which I was surprised about because I thought it was all me and normal. But she never said it was sexual assault or anything like that I just remember her face and the way she spoke like she felt bad for me rather than saying it was all my fault. i dunno though.

So what would this be classed as? Or would it just be me having sex that I didn't want to have but not saying anything and getting myself into a silly position (so to speak).

It's not really bothering me personally and never really did and it was ages ago anyway but I'm just curious in general about this kind of thing. Thanks.

p.s. Also in my second year of university I remember I was kissed against my will twice by two different people on two different occasions. I did the same thing and just pretended it was fine and mutual so I didn't pull away straight away to avoid embarrassment because it was both people I knew who hung around with the same people as me so i didn't want things to be awkward if they thought they had imposed on me. So I just waited a few seconds and then pulled away and just continued to act as friends. One of them did up against a wall. Both times it was totally by surprise and quite forceful. Was that sexual assault? Even though it was just kissing?

Yes he did not have consent, yes he continued. and yes that is theoretically rape, BUT we both know it is not possible to prove that in a UK court.

But do we really believe that the inability to prove a rape in court takes away from it being rape in any way?

I appreciate the PM by the way, though I'm not sure it adds to your argument here in any way (not that I'm assuming you meant it to).

I agree that both men and women are taught harmful lessons that can lead to one party reading certain things as (or simply assuming, or disregarding the need for) consent when really, they shouldn't at all. I get that that goes some way to explaining some instances of rape, but I do not agree that that means we can pass any of that responsibility on to the person who is raped. Nor do I think that it is in any way a reason to declare such people unfortunate victims of the system and shrug our shoulders and go easy on the people who rape them until such time as we are satisfied that everyone is sufficiently educated as to consent, which I feel is some people's suggested approach.

I think that technically it was rape since the OP was, sadly, penetrated against her will. But there's nothing to make me think he was guilty of intending to rape or (explicit verbal consent aside) he could have known that the OP was not a consenting party. And I really don't think we can cry rapist on every man who doesn't realise that stopping to ask for verbal consent is a thing. I agree with posters who have said that establishing consent is something both parties must participate in and should feel free to be pedantic about if they need to be.

There have been a couple of long-running threads where a lot of posters felt that situations like this never happened - that people would either have sex and want to, or not have sex because they didn't want to. As I recall, it was thought that a rape accusation would never be made by a woman who (for some reason) went along with unwanted sex and felt unclear about whether she participated or simply allowed it to happen. But this can happen and it does happen. I'm sorry it happened to you, OP.

". I was trying to bring realism into the discussion"

It's been discussed several times upthread that OP would be unlikely to secure a conviction and she's clearly stated that's not what she wants to achieve anyway; she is discussing an upsetting experience from her past.

I haven't been able to read past the first hundred or so comments so apologies if this has been addressed up thread but I feel it needs answered.

It was asked a few times why someone wouldn't say no, as if it was the most ridiculous thing ever someone couldn't. Aside from the obvious fear, and the additional embarrassment etc type comments that were all validly raised as possible reasons, a bigger issue plays a part, maybe not for the OP, but for a fair lot of people.

Someone did mention freezing as a response mechanism, that plays a part for many people, especially women as it's more the female's response to a fight or flight scenario. Especially in victims of childhood sexual abuse. Everything is messed up. Boundaries, your own thoughts, what you want, how to act, how to stay safe, triggers, flashbacks, how to get through it. Everything.

Additionally, past trauma can cause dissociation so you literally mentally switch off and cannot say no because you 'aren't there'. Your partner would be unlikely to know as conditioning means you put on the 'I'm OK mask' to cope.

I don't know what the answer is cos my whole everything seems a grey area, but I hope everyone who has had any kind of violation can find a way to be OK, I hope I ever can.

for all.

Gonetoseeamanaboutadog: I think you are getting a little fixated on the idea that consent has to be verbal. The problem with this line is that it leads to the argument that if there wasn't a "no" then it is ambiguous and although verbal consent is a great ideal, in the real world consent is rarely communicated verbally. The standard we should look for with consent is willing and enthusiastic. Then we ask guys how they knew their partner was consenting (rather than asking women how they communicated non-consent). Lying still face down and not resisting is not consent. I've had sex with a few young men in my time. When I look back at those lovely (and some not so lovely) nights I can list a range of ways that we communicated consent to each other, such as: "are you sure?", "do you have a condom", "are you ready for this", "I really want this", or guiding each other, or just both being bloody enthusiastic.

Let's not pretend young men are completely stupid and therefore let them off the hook for raping. They do know what consent is and what it looks like. They also know what it looks like when absent.

I don't buy the bullshit about men being unable to stop after a certain level of arousal. That is a rape myth.

I agree with you regarding the rape myth. I think stillness and chatting is hopelessly subjective though. Plenty of women don't writhe around or talk but are still participants.

Then you have the enthusiasm problem, where women like the op show forced 'enthusiasm ' for complicated reasons, perhaps not realising that generally enthusiasm is interpreted as a sign of wanting events to progress. I don't think men are thick but I do think the mixed messages can lead to genuine confusion.

On the ' plenty of women don't writhe or talk ' I would also say that women who are vulnerable to showing false enthusiasm are likely to be shy and inexperienced - and perhaps less physically engaged as a result, making the moment when they pass from willing participant in unwanted serial relations to passively present but unwilling difficult to spot-I question if they always know it for themselves.

What a sad post endless. I wish you the best.