Was this rape/sexual abuse of some sort?

[breakfastatchanel]

This is something that happened a few years ago when I was at University living on campus in my first year. But I am just thinking about it now because something I read reminded me of it. And I'm curious if this would actually be considered rape or sexual abuse of some sort? I never thought it was before but now I'm wondering.

So basically after a night out I went back with this guy to his room (in one of the accommodation on campus). I wasn't that drunk, I can remember everything that happened and was perfectly lucid so that wasn't really an issue. But anyway I for some reason thought it was a good idea to have be promiscuous with boys I hardly knew because everyone else seemed to be doing it. Anyway, I guess we were kissing on the bed and then he took off my underwear and started to give me oral sex. I remember not liking as it was quite rough and regretting my decision but I pretended to be enjoying it or at least I didn't do anything and just put up with it trying to convince myself it was fine (not his fault though) anyway then he turned me over unto my front and carried on giving me oral sex and using his hands. Then he suddenly started to have sex with me which caught me by surprise. I would have had sex with him but I would never have agreed to do it with no condom. But once he started I just decided that the risk of infection and pregnancy was already there and I would already have to go to the clinic in the morning anyway so I didn't say anything and just let him carry on without any sign. I didn't like it either but I didn't want to cause any embarrassment for me or him so I just waited for it to be over and pretended it was okay.

I took the morning after pill the next day and then about a week later I went to the clinic to get checked out. Because I actually had thrush from it (for the only time in my life) but wanted to get checked out anyway. The nurse wanted to hear what happened and was asking questions and I told her that I would never normally have unprotected sex and she asked questions I ended up explaining what happened just so she wouldn't think I was reckless and because she was asking. I remember she seemed to be sympathetic and take it quite seriously when I told her which I was surprised about because I thought it was all me and normal. But she never said it was sexual assault or anything like that I just remember her face and the way she spoke like she felt bad for me rather than saying it was all my fault. i dunno though.

So what would this be classed as? Or would it just be me having sex that I didn't want to have but not saying anything and getting myself into a silly position (so to speak).

It's not really bothering me personally and never really did and it was ages ago anyway but I'm just curious in general about this kind of thing. Thanks.

p.s. Also in my second year of university I remember I was kissed against my will twice by two different people on two different occasions. I did the same thing and just pretended it was fine and mutual so I didn't pull away straight away to avoid embarrassment because it was both people I knew who hung around with the same people as me so i didn't want things to be awkward if they thought they had imposed on me. So I just waited a few seconds and then pulled away and just continued to act as friends. One of them did up against a wall. Both times it was totally by surprise and quite forceful. Was that sexual assault? Even though it was just kissing?

I would never Let a guy give me oral and do foreplay and then class it as abuse / rape when we had sex unless i had specifically said No.

So if you 'let' a guy give you oral and then had sex with him, but he then (without telling you before) pulled out and shoved his penis into you for anal, would you think that was OK?

You know who the best teachers were Layla? The fucking women in my life that victim blamed,slut shamed,turned a blind eye or laughed it off. It thought me that no matter if it's family,classmates,tutor, if they have a dick you are to blame and change and be ashamed. It thought me that not having a dick meant no protection from women in charge of my protection(family,teachers). It learned that i have my own back,and watch my step and that safe and familiar is an illusion. Oh and that if i have a reputation,might as well live up to it and have some consensual fun.

www.change.org/p/education-secretary-and-minister-for-women-and-equalities-justine-greening-make-sex-and-relationships-education-sre-compulsory-in-all-schools?tk=hox1lTlI3MAovz_eZ-vjjWqsfswJFXKRylNHzWm_-to&utm_source=supporter_signature_milestone_email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=supporter_signatures_50000&utm_term=supporter_signature_milestone_email

Just popping this here for anybody who might be interested in signing it. I didn't realise for many years that I hadn't actually 'consented' properly because I wasn't fighting the guy off (he threathened me and I froze), and he wasn't a stranger. I also had a crush on him, so I knew I'd be flamed if I ever suggested anything untoward had happened. If I'd had better sex education, I might have been better able to report what had happened. Or maybe he wouldn't have felt so entitled to express his power over me due to the prevailing rape culture in my high school.

I've slept with 16 men and 15/16 said something like "I really wanna fuck you" or some other form of dirty talk before progressing to PIV the first time.

Boyfriends/FWB are different because you have a rhythm, you've chatted about STIs/protection expectations and so on, so things are more spontaneous. Even so, most of them would still have given a verbal indication before PIV.

Mr #16 did similar to OP's guy; went from digital penetration to turning me over and doing it, and then quickly went to unprotected PIV. It felt like it all moved too fast, and I was drunk at the time. I wouldn't call it rape, but I felt that not giving me a chance to choose re: condoms made me feel "violated" in some sense. I was so shocked that he did it that I "lost my voice" and let him finish. But in hindsight, why else would he have turned me over? The clues were there. It was just not good sexual etiquette and I was too drunk. I would not have considered reporting him for it or calling it assault.

Sorry for what happened to you, RebelRogue.

Thanks Aristotle ...shit happens x

Same Barks. There's always some sort of commentary leading up to the sex with somebody new. Not "do i have your consent to put my penis inside you" as some people mocked the OP with upthread, but some sort of "I really want to fuck you/I can't wait to feel myself inside you/ shall I get a condom type lead up.

Or, you'll both be naked and you'll both be consciously working yourself into position, or the guy will be pressing himself against you in a sort of 'testing the water's way, going slowly, giving you a chance to say stop. That's " normal" sexual behaviour for anyone who gives a shit whether the other person wants to do it or not.

Not a surprise fait accompli.

Well said AyeAmarok I completely agree.

Consent cannot ever be presumed.

All right people, I am out of here and won't be posting in the thread after this post.

Everyone has their traumatic experiences and whatnot, but at the end of the day calling this incident a rape seems wrong to me. I would not call it so when not drunk, go with a guy to his place late night with some intent in mind, receive foreplay and then the final, all the while 'pretending to enjoy it'. HOWEVER, it was disgusting he did it with no protection, and there is no excuse in not asking first. It is WRONG on so many levels and I have to tell you that I almost closed the thread in fear of what I may read further in your post when you went for that medical check. Protected sex is fine, unprotected isn't and I am just glad that you are ok. You went there with the intention to have sex, but with different kind of sex in mind. It WASN'T ok to have unprotected and that is his uneducated, stupid fault to think that it is fine. We can say that your views on the matter are different, as you know better than him, but that is why not communicating has led to this situation. The nurse knows, as you have explained everything in detail and that is why she hasn't recommended you take any action. Sadly, you cannot punish such dumb actions by law.

Whether the law defines it as rape or not, you really have to question why a man (or woman) would undertake any sexual activity with someone brand new, whom they don't know and don't have an understanding of their boundaries/body etc, and not give them the opportunity to say no before they do surprise unprotected PIV/anal/choking/slapping or even if you're giving them head and they don't tell you they're about to come so you have to swallow.

There's a reason they don't want you to know what they are about to do before they do it. And that's because they want to do it whether you want it or not.

Which, you know, isn't too far away from sexual assault and rape...

AyeAmarok-A lot of woman and men engage in sexual activity with people they don't know much about, people have flings/ONS, which I don't think is a problem, providing precautions are taken. From the ONS's I have had, pre-married days, I've never been forced into something I didn't want to do and would say so if I felt things were going that way, I have however been careless and not always used condoms, (have been on hormonal pills though), but I think that was down to naivety, rather than lack of awareness about STD's.

Back to the OP. The guy should not have assumed it was ok to penetrate the woman, oral sex does not give the guy permission to have sex with her. Lots of teens engage in oral sex during experimental phases, before they decide to have sex (well I did anyway), so for a guy to then think it's ok to stick his penis into a woman, without any form of consent before, isn't acceptable. OP also should have spoken out if she wasn't enjoying the foreplay, particularly if he was being too rough.

There is no "should" about what the OP did. It is well known that women behave exactly as she did in such situations.

I am intrigued by laylajoh's post. It matters not whether the OP went to his room intending to have sex. Intention to have sex when in a bar does not equal consent. Consent to oral sex does not equal consent.

I know it is really uncomfortable for a lot of women to accept what sex without active and ongoing consent means because many of us will have, at some point in our lives, had sexual experiences that do not meet the consent standard. Many of us will have accepted a narrative of those events that involves blaming ourselves: we should have made our wishes clearer, we shouldn't have gone back to his place, we should have said no, etc., etc.

It is true that scenarios like the OP described do not (yet) tend to lead to successful prosecution but that does not change the facts. In the OP's description, the OP did not consent to the sexual intercourse. The man involved cannot claim to have had her consent because she gave no indication verbal or otherwise (not saying "no" does not equal yes; similarly, not resisting [acquiescing] does not equal consenting). Sex without consent is what?

Right there are some bull shit answers in here. Sorry I haven't read the whole thread though. This may be a little blunt sorry but I think rape is committed. Your partner has not established consent from you for the penetrative sex. You also wouldn't have consented to sex without a condom ( so consent can be conditional). Consent for one sex act eg the oral sex does not give consent for all sex acts. So although he might have believed that you consented to the oral sex that in itself is insufficient evidence of consent for the penetration. It is the responsibility of the man to establish categorically what is being consented to because he commits the offence of rape. Rape myths places the burden on women in these scenarios so that people believe that if you did not say no that you must be saying yes. Prosecuting a case like this would be very difficult a people have very set views on how they want their victims to behave. I hope this helps clarify the situation. Sorry for the bluntness but some of the rubbish on here was annoying me

I could have saved my breath Kallyno you said it a lot better.

Other areas of life yes and no is really straightforward. People tend to not assume they can not do something to a person or their belongings without their permission, especially when that person is a stranger? Why is it different when it comes to consent in a sexual setting? I'm trying to think of other areas if life where there's all these grey areas about understanding what you're not supposed to do, that reasonable to think people are consenting to whatever the situation as they haven't actually said no, so it's ok to not check first and do what you plan/want, and I can't think of any.

Like, if I started a thread saying my friend is angry because I'd taken a book off her shelves without asking, that I didn't see what the big deal is as she's already given the book to a dozen friends to read and she had hinted that she was going to let me borrow the book anyway, she's given me books in the past also so it's totally reasonable that she should be ok that I went to her shelves and put the book in my bag without telling her while she was in the kitchen making coffee, and that it's a bit late to be complaining now, I mean it's already in my bag.

Would the majority of people on such a thread say she should never have taken me back to her house, she should never have hinted I could borrow the book and she absolutely should have said "please don't take the book while I'm out of the room as I'd like to ask that you won't fold pages, break the spine first"? That if she's known for loaning her books to mates, she can't be suprised when a mate takes one. I don't think they would, I think I'd be told that I was a thief. Why doesn't it apply when it's a woman's body?

WomanActually I really like that analogy. I think you are right, you would be told you are a thief.

I read some comments on the first page, then some on the last. I have to ask all of you people - am I the only one to think that it is not right to call either side faulty or right? Like calling the OP victim of a rape, or calling it okay for a man to do such a thing without a warning? Am I the only one around here who thinks that both sides have done something they shouldn't have and that there is absolutely no point in looking into legal matters, defining what consent or rape are and even posting analogies about stealing books from a friend or smoking to look cool to others?

Obviously he started sex without protection, which is unacceptable, and shouldn't even be called bad sexual etiquette. I am far from calling any spontaneous decisions during such act bad, i.e. if the partner is supposed to hint towards everything they are about to do or explicitly say what they want to do, it is going to ruin everything. However, when it comes to any practice, which holds a risk for both parties involved, I do believe it should be thoroughly discussed and agreed upon.

As for her, I do believe that she should have said no at the first sign of discomfort during the second phase. Obviously, there were some negative effects afterwards, but all of that could have been avoided if you were more firm and considerate. Fear of embarrassment is no excuse to let such a practice continue and to think that since he started it and damage was done he can continue till the end. I don't believe the boy is a mind reader and I don't know what would have happened if he was told to stop, but he saw that she was enjoying it (from his perspective he can't tell it's faking) so he continued on.

My read is that both parties were largely inexperienced in what they were doing. What happened is a result of bad communication or rather no communication at all. From my experience, that is the main problem with random encounters like this one - you have no idea what can happen, because you do not invest the time to talk about it and properly discuss. You don't talk about what is acceptable, what your needs and preferences are, what the outcome will be; you don't synchronise with the other person, as you just both go with what the general concept of sex and how it should unfold. You have a vision in your mind and a scenario of how it should go down and the same goes for the other person, and when those are different ... well, the result is disappointing. I don't want to sound like I have had plenty of numbers to test this, but that is what I gathered from the times it did happen.

She let him continue without stopping him at any moment, despite the fact that she was not enjoying it (but she did make it seem like she is enjoying it). Obviously there is no harm done to him, because he was enjoying the whole thing and from what he could tell she was enjoying it as well. The only harm was done to the girl, because she didn't react to what was a problem for her, but that is not a thing the other party can be held accountable for. He could have been held accountable for starting it, and then for not stopping it, should she have told him to stop it - but that wasn't the case.

What I am saying is he is responsible for starting it and she is responsible for not stopping it.

Will you quit asking questions out of context please? At what point in my posts have I made a statement out of the context of the whole situation, which involves two young people deciding upon having sex and then one of them getting disappointed?

I started with this - flinging accusations of sexual assault and rape is rather absurd, if you look at different aspects and disregard the whole picture. I will simply not further discuss if that is what you are going to do.

Not all situations are as clear cut as you seem to think, Jane. Many factors come into play. Sometimes people freeze. Sometimes compliance might seem the least risky option - fear is a huge factor. Also, in some situations it's just easier to carry on because society has taught us that being a prick tease is worse than being a prude who says no...

I'm of the belief that if somebody feels violated then they undoubtedly were. The OP isn't looking to press charges, and I think a discussion about consent based on what she's told us is very relevant.