Was this rape/sexual abuse of some sort?

[breakfastatchanel]

This is something that happened a few years ago when I was at University living on campus in my first year. But I am just thinking about it now because something I read reminded me of it. And I'm curious if this would actually be considered rape or sexual abuse of some sort? I never thought it was before but now I'm wondering.

So basically after a night out I went back with this guy to his room (in one of the accommodation on campus). I wasn't that drunk, I can remember everything that happened and was perfectly lucid so that wasn't really an issue. But anyway I for some reason thought it was a good idea to have be promiscuous with boys I hardly knew because everyone else seemed to be doing it. Anyway, I guess we were kissing on the bed and then he took off my underwear and started to give me oral sex. I remember not liking as it was quite rough and regretting my decision but I pretended to be enjoying it or at least I didn't do anything and just put up with it trying to convince myself it was fine (not his fault though) anyway then he turned me over unto my front and carried on giving me oral sex and using his hands. Then he suddenly started to have sex with me which caught me by surprise. I would have had sex with him but I would never have agreed to do it with no condom. But once he started I just decided that the risk of infection and pregnancy was already there and I would already have to go to the clinic in the morning anyway so I didn't say anything and just let him carry on without any sign. I didn't like it either but I didn't want to cause any embarrassment for me or him so I just waited for it to be over and pretended it was okay.

I took the morning after pill the next day and then about a week later I went to the clinic to get checked out. Because I actually had thrush from it (for the only time in my life) but wanted to get checked out anyway. The nurse wanted to hear what happened and was asking questions and I told her that I would never normally have unprotected sex and she asked questions I ended up explaining what happened just so she wouldn't think I was reckless and because she was asking. I remember she seemed to be sympathetic and take it quite seriously when I told her which I was surprised about because I thought it was all me and normal. But she never said it was sexual assault or anything like that I just remember her face and the way she spoke like she felt bad for me rather than saying it was all my fault. i dunno though.

So what would this be classed as? Or would it just be me having sex that I didn't want to have but not saying anything and getting myself into a silly position (so to speak).

It's not really bothering me personally and never really did and it was ages ago anyway but I'm just curious in general about this kind of thing. Thanks.

p.s. Also in my second year of university I remember I was kissed against my will twice by two different people on two different occasions. I did the same thing and just pretended it was fine and mutual so I didn't pull away straight away to avoid embarrassment because it was both people I knew who hung around with the same people as me so i didn't want things to be awkward if they thought they had imposed on me. So I just waited a few seconds and then pulled away and just continued to act as friends. One of them did up against a wall. Both times it was totally by surprise and quite forceful. Was that sexual assault? Even though it was just kissing?

I have stopped reading this thread at page three because I am appalled at the tone and ignorance of many of the replies.

OP, what happened to you is surprisingly common. It is also common to react just as you did. The scenario you describe is exactly why consent education is needed, and not just for young people it seems. Legally it would almost certainly not be a case that was considered to meet the threshold needed for action. That does not mean it was ok. A lot of people are confused about what consent is legally.

Just to clear things up: oral sex and manual stimulation are NOT necessarily "foreplay". They are sex acts in their own right. Consent to either or both of them is not automatic consent to penis in vagina. Therefore he did not know you were consenting before penetrating you. He did not know because he could not know: it wasn't discussed and you didn't do anything physically to consent (such as guide him in or pass him a condom). He cannot assume your consent to penetrate you (with or without a condom) on the basis that you appeared to enjoy oral and digital stimulation. He likely took you by surprise because he didn't want to wear a condom. It probably didn't occur to him that you might not want sex at all or that he was legally obligated to be sure and check.

This thread is riddled with ignorance and rape apologists.

I'm sorry this happened to you, OP. It happens to a lot of women when they start at university especially. You are not alone. These days, most decent unis would take that case for internal review at least. It was sex you did not consent to. His behaviour was a result of male entitlement.

^^

What Kallyno said. Sorry you've had such a hard time, OP. (And seriously, would the posters saying "this is fine, it was the next natural step" be saying the same if he'd stuck his dick in OP's anus without warning? Consent to one specific sexual activity is not blanket consent to all and any sexual activity.)

@Buffy - Thank you for your replies and I agree with what you say and the analogy was good.
@myownperosn - thanks again and I agree with all your posts. I have found this thread and your replies as well as others useful.
@stigina - thanks that makes sense and thanks for the support. I'm fine. I don't find this thread triggering for me at least anyway.
@stitch @Aye Thank you for your replies and understanding what I;m talking about.

My wife has never done this, even at the beginning of our relationship.

@OnionKnight - "I'm actually struggling to remember if we have ever gotten explicit consent from each other before having sex, it'd certainly put a dampener on proceedings."

Consent doesn't have to be verbally explicit for it to be consent (it only needs to be verbally explicit if necessary and there is doubt). If I was to initiate piv sex (or any type of sex) even with a long term partner for example then I would do it so he could see what I was doing or aware of it (and I would be looking at him to gauge if that's what he wanted etc.) rather than sticking something in from behind without his knowledge for example or something like that which would either require a verbal consent if there is no visual way of telling or sometimes in relationships things are consented or agreed upon in different ways I guess if you have some kind of agreement about what is happening or routine or something so that could be different than a first time encounter. I had a couple of other casual sexual encounters at university too which were completely consensual and I have never had any similar issue with any of them or with any long term boyfriend and I also don't remember many (if any) times where verbal consent was necessary but that is only because there was clear visual consent and I could see what they were about to do before they did it for example. If not then verbal consent (like he they were behind like in the situation in question) would have been necessary or if not then he should have let me see what he was about to do so I had a chance to say something.

@Kallyno - Thank you for reply. What you say makes sense. I agree about it seeming to be surprisingly common especially at university. I know at least one girl who was too drunk to consent to sex or resist and in the end she just put up with it because it was either and she couldn't get him to stop (something like that anyway I can't remember what she told me exactly but I remember thinking it was bad and at the time I didn't actually think of my experience as anything similar as I'm pretty sure she told me after the experience I had later in the year). Also I'm pretty sure I had my drink spiked one time when I was at a bar in town because I had only two drinks and then I collapsed and couldn't move for a bit but luckily nothing happened as I was already home by that point. Also there was this guy who was a friend of a friend who was actually taken to court for kissing and touching sexually a girl at a party on a bed and not stopping when asked. He said he had absolutely no memory of it. I remember feeling weird about that when he was telling us because everyone was sympathising with him saying it's not his fault he can't remember and she was probably lying anyway and he asked my friend if she would be his character witness. I remember just feeling a bit weird and conflicted about the whole thing. Not sure what to make of it. Anyway I felt bad for my friend who had that happen to her and she got support from me and her boyfriend and another friend but I remember one good friend of hers didn't believe her or blamed her being too drunk.

Oooops. I missed a whole page of comments when I posted the resteraunt stuff and didn't see it had already been done.

You learned the hard way how some men are and those are the ones you stay away from. A man who respects himself will respect you. A man who doesn't care will never respect women. That is the type of man who will leave his seed inside a woman and not look after the child. I have met men like that and they may seem nice on the surface but underneath they are cruel and nasty.

People need to be educated so this can be stamped out and more perpetrators can be caught out. I hope you have found a lovely man to spend your time with and possibly grow with. Not all men are like that.

Sunshine - nice idea, but how do you do this? It's not like the men who do this to you in private wander around in public with the mark of Cain on them.

When I was growing up the sex education was rubbish. Before men enters this country they learn about how to respect women and what they have on is not an invitation. I think teenagers and men need to be taught the same thing some of them behave like its a free for all. Women struggle to have a good time get drunk and have fun with out some pervert on them wanting sex.

FWIW, speaking as a layperson my understanding of the law is that rape is 'the penetration of a mouth, vagina or anus without a reasonable belief of it being consented to.'

So considering just the moment itself, at the point of penetration it was rape going by the above. Would the legal people just consider the moment though, and not "after"? What I mean is, if a man takes a punt that something will be OK and as it turns out he was correct as she responded positively (or appears to), does that kind of retrospectively validate his belief that it was OK?

Otherwise it seems to me a lot of positively received actions might technically be assaults if you were to only consider the instant whatever it was was started. Even something more mundane like a surprise kiss that was a pleasant surprise might at the instant of initiation technically be an assault if you consider that at that precise moment the kisser was basically taking a bit of a gamble it would be OK, and couldn't really know it would be consented to.

As I say, just a layperson. Just wondering if they would still call it rape or assault if it was a punt that turned out to be welcomed (or appeared to be). I doubt in practise there have been too many cases where a positively responded to act was still convicted because there was a moment at the initiation where the letter of the law might have been broken.

All that aside, it is of course wrong to penetrate without warning, with no established OK.

Well said, Kallyno.

OP, it's amazing how some people see "he was drunk" as an excuse for a man committing a sexual assault when they wouldn't see it as an excuse for another crime (drunk driving, stealing etc)

I don't know if it was already stated, but ... I think word around campus spreads fast. So, if you did what you did without any negative response from your side and then that one person told to some others, then they could have easily assumed that they can do what they did without asking for permission. I don't know if that makes sense, though it is something to think about.

I am completely shocked at what I have read here. How can someone be consenting to something they don't know is about the happen? As has been said many times before, consent to one act does not give automatic consent to anything else.

It is irrelevant what happened up to that point, whether she was enjoying herself or not. She did not want unprotected sex and wasn't given to opportunity to object. He just went ahead and did it. Even if she had said no once he had started and he had stopped, it doesn't change the fact that he had already penetrated her with out consent of any kind. And that is rape.

I ran this scenario past a couple of male friends who both said without a moments hesitation 'that's rape. That's bad'.

Having read this thread, it's no wonder women stay silent. There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding as to what rape is, when the law makes it very clear.

Op I'm really sorry this happened to you and I'm really sorry you have had to read some of the unbelievable comments on here.

"then they could have easily assumed that they can do what they did without asking for permission. I don't know if that makes sense, though it is something to think about."

Not sure what you are saying here, Layla?

If I heard that a uni friend had stolen something from someone's room, but no report had been filed, say, should I then assume I can take something from the same room or another without permission?

No, because I am responsible for my own morals.

What happened afterwards OP? Did you sleep? In his bed? Did you get up in the morning, talk to eachother and go and have breakfast together? Did you ever see him again around campus? Did you talk at all? Was it awkward? Did you get up, put your clothes on and leave? Did you feel even at the time that this wasn't right, or did that dawn on you later.
Do you think he knows? Or is he oblivious?

I know none of this is important or relevant, but I was just curious.

From the OP, it seems like it was the STD nurse's reaction to her account regarding the penetration without seeking consent that was a trigger.

Layla. That's the worst comment so far. I can have sex with all the men on a campus bar one with. O negative reaction from me. It does not mean that the last one can assume i'll do whatever i did with others with him as well. That's bullshit.

My classmates tried to rape me. Word got around that they succeeded. No negative reaction from me as i was 13,victim blamed and it was one of me and 6 of them. Many assumed that if i did once i'll do it again and again and again and turned violent and abusive when i wouldn't.

Rebel did that happen to you.

God Rebel that's awful. I can't even imagine how a 13 deals with that.

Let me be more elaborate this time.

What I read from the OP: "But anyway I for some reason thought it was a good idea to have be promiscuous with boys I hardly knew because everyone else seemed to be doing it."

What does this tell me? It tells me that you made a choice the consequences of which you were fully aware of. When a person decides to be promiscuous, that can only go one way - the way it did. I honestly cannot imagine you thinking that it wouldn't come to sex, when you agreed to go into that guy's room. Explain to me what were you thinking??? That you were going to talk about university lectures and exams late in the night maybe?! I refuse to believe that you had no idea what is coming, even though I fully understand that you were having second thoughts about it (but only when it was too late). You went in with a guy in his place, he did something that was clearly sexual and then he went all the way. You could have taken a step back at ANY given time, but you didn't. It was a choice, which turned out to be bad. I get it that it possibly affected you negatively afterwards, but that is just how life works. You are a victim of that choice, or possibly the whole environment you were in, with all of your friends doing that and you just trying to copy.

Speaking of which, that is how many people around me started smoking - a lot of their friends were doing it, so they didn't want to seem different. It is even how I almost started it, but then quit mostly because of health issues.

I guess I am playing devil's advocate, but I don't see any harassment or abuse.

Laylajoh I can't work out just how awful you are being here. I can't figure which bits are your thoughts and how much of the post is you trying to keep a debate going. Either way your post is fucking awful.
I suggest you have a read of we believe you and also remember this is someone's life you are posting about.

Sunshine yeah. And many boys and men thought i would do the same with them because i "did" it once. Even if it would've been consensual there no such thing as "you did it with one,you'll do it with anyone" . I had a fucking blade to my face for daring to refuse a 23 year old man . Apparently i had no right to do that,i was promiscuous anyways and "everyone" knew it.

P.s. Rumours are irrelevant anyways,as someone like that would never admit that the girl that does it with everyone,did not do it with him.

Layla are you playing victim blaming and rape apology bingo? You might be referring to the op,but all those generalisations and assumptions and bullshit,is what a victim hears every fucking time she makes a complaint. Even a victim you might consider "real"

he made a mistake by thinking you were up or it. but you did give him that impression and never stopped him... So of course it isnt!!!!!!

I would never Let a guy give me oral and do foreplay and then class it as abuse / rape when we had sex unless i had specifically said No.

By the way,since you did start smoking(if you had to quit), and i assume you'd go with your mates in certain locations to smoke,and you smoked there before,would it have been ok for someone to shove a lit fag in your mouth? A whole pack? After all you knew why you were going there for and what was going to happen

Yes, tell me how awful I am, just because of the way I express myself. Meanwhile, you can ignore all my points and instead focus on the fact that I don't share the common opinion in the thread. How about you talk about them points from my post?

Will it help if I say that I do feel for the OP in that what happened describes just what some men are like - horrible. I would go as far as say that it is such university life that makes them such and that I can only hope they realise that is not how you treat a person later on. That they mature enough. I am also sure that is through such experiences we people learn and that as bad as they are, they are the best teachers of our lives. And that reflecting upon those moment from our own perspective (and not from other POV) is how we take the essence and not make the same mistake.

So, Layla, what level of sexual partners is needed to establish promiscuity? One? Two? Three? Ten? A hundred? Am I still allowed to say no to partner 27, but by the time I get onto partner 28, suddenly I have demonstrated by my actions that I am open to all comers?

Can you not see how utterly revolting your attitude is?