Just handed back my wedding ring, not sure what happens next...

[IceBeing]

No real drama, no OW or OM, just mental health problems and a total lack of kindness or consideration left in the relationship.

Final straw today was that I decided to try and help out clearing a big pile of junk that resulted from a combination of a shelf collapsing in our kitchen and my DD's birthday, both of which happened over 3 months ago.

When DH found out he was stomping and sulking because I shouldn't have touched the piles of junk and because I had he now had to retrace everything I had done and wash everything and put all DD's toys and presents back into a pile of junk.

The reason for this being that one of the bags contained a hand painted wooden box DD (5yo) had been given by a friend at her birthday. And because DH doesn't know what paint was used it is by default toxic...and so is anything it touched, anything that even might have been in the same bag, anything that was in the room when I opened the bag etc. etc.

So my DD can't have that present, or the other ones in the bag with it, she can't have her toys from the party back and our house is slowly being consumed by increasing piles of junk that noone but DH is allowed near, but that he never gets around to doing anything about.

I can't go in one of the rooms of the house and the garage has been off limits for around 4 years.

So my attempt at increasing the net amount of kindness in the house has back fired epically. I just can't do it anymore.

But what now?

Thanks mummy and showme, its really useful to hear some other experiences.

Not being defensive but genuinely curious, what anxieties are people reading into me?

I certainly have no OCD and have always been relaxed about risk management. I grew up in a house with lead piping so I can't actually get excited about lead paint risks at all....

I acknowledge the risk from paint exists - because I am a scientist and it is indeed real. In fact it is pretty shoddy work from the government that builders are now restricted from dealing with old pain in houses in certain ways but there has been no matching public awareness of the issue of high lead levels in toddlers in particular. But thats it really. I don't have any problem with DD visiting friends who live in old housing stock or playing with painted toys made in China. I am aware of the risk...aware it is low...and just want to get on with life.

We tried her in nursery for around 9 months without ever progressing beyond sitting in a corner with hands over her ears, crying silently to herself. We stopped when the staff began reporting this as 'she was fine - had a good time' etc.

Regarding feeding the anxiety...I think I have sometimes handled that poorly in the past, but for the last year or so it has just been 'how are you feeling today?' DD will either say 'yeah fine, out the way' and plunge into an activity, or 'I don't feel confident today' and want me to stay close. She is usually right...and a reasonably good judge of her mental reserves on any given day. We listen to her and when she says 'I have had enough' we give her some space. Sometimes, she will re-engage with an activity after a pause and sometimes she won't. We don't pressurise or praise, joining or leaving. Just follow her cues. This does seem slowly to be building her confidence. Maybe she is under-confident in her ability, and could cope with more, but as long as things are improving and she is getting more confident on average over time I figure there are worse things that might result if we were more active in 'encouraging' her. Anyway I will look into the resource links posted and see how I could improve methods in this area.

Right I need to prepare for a Conversation now. Work out the priority issues that need addressing.

Being honest about fears, preventing panicked reactions to injury, the unacceptability of involving DD in web of deceit, preventing panicked reactions to minor threats like chewing a swimming toy , looking into GP/child psychologist for DD....what else...

I think your husband seeking professional help would be towards the top of the list, I'm not sure it's something he can deal with by himself.

Has he explained why he doesn't want people to know of his issues?

To add: your earlier comment about a job share may also help as although I'm sure your DD keeps him busy it may be good for him to be outside the house and spend time not being the protective Dad.

Showmethewaytogohome talks a lot of sense.

Presumably if others were aware his views could be challenged and make him either feel insecure or react badly. I'm not clear whether your sense of perspective has become skewed over time but you have indulged his fears by allowing the shelf issue to fester and party toys to be set aside for so long. As a scientist you could argue the facts with him but have apparently chosen not to. does your h recognise that he has a problem or is the modern world a threat to him personally? Are there triggers to his behaviour?

Hi I think it's really your DH anxieties that I was alluding to and I think maybe others too - he sounds from your descriptions like a ball of anxiety - you said it is he who has the issues re toys, friends houses, lead etc

I would say we have had mixed experiences in nursery settings - one fantastic and one awful. So often it is the environment and the teachers - but everyone is different and don't let one crap place put you off

If I am honest the discussion with your DH may need to be directive rather than discursive. So kind of...... I will be taking her to the GP, she will play with x y z toy. I will correct her if she lies for you etc If he is prepared to get help so be it. If you are thinking of leaving you will have to take these steps in order to take your DD with you (others will be far better informed on this) as you would be able to show your parenting would be in her best interests - again please take advice re this

I know this will be really hard and it sounds like you still have deep feelings for your DH - that is also something I guess you will need to think through at the same time and work out if you want to stay What ever you do keep your DD with you please. Keep strong you can do this

Cheers LynetteScavo if you ever see a kid with furry black ear muffs on a summer holiday moaning about the sun on their skin - I am the bemused mother carry the bags full of comfort toys!

Add to your list the unacceptability of making you lie to cover up the truth about him.

You really must stop the cover up. You should talk to friends about it. You should definitely talk to the other HE parents so they can help keep things normal and let you know if they are seeing DH failing to control his damaging behaviours.

Someone will call social services one day, possibly soon, probably one of the HE parents, and it will go badly for you if you are systematically lying to protect him and doing nothing anyone has witnessed to change matters.

Ice I got distracted by the HE thing. I've re-read your OP.

Your DH confiscated all of your DD's 5th birthday presents. This was 3 months ago. He keeps them in a pile in the kitchen that only he is allowed to touch. Every day, you and DD see the pile of her taken presents. You do not touch. After 3 months you had had enough and started to do something with the presents (it isn't clear to me from your OP what you were doing with them). Your DH was furious, he has found all the presents from wherever you put them and has put them back into his special pile in the kitchen where DD can see all of her stolen presents but isn't allowed to touch them.

You think he might have gone too far this time but you aren't sure what to do about it, is that right?

How about you give DD her presents from her 5th birthday? That would be a good start I think.

Something else you might want to consider is how your family will be perceived by the local home ed community. Home educators can be hugely supportive but at the end of the day, they only have so much they can give and your husband sounds like hard work. You are fed up with his behaviour and you loved him enough to marry him. How many times will other parents put up with interrogation about their home decor, before invitations to playdates/parties/activities dry up? Will this affect your DD's friendships when she becomes older and running around in woods just isn't enough any more, when she wants to go to parties and playdates and have friends over? Maybe you and your DH are friendly enough, and his problems masked enough, that this won't become an issue, but it is something to think about.

runrabbit That is an interesting fiction you have created there! What actually happened was that DD had almost all the presents (although I had to stitch some covering over the printed on logo on her favourite one so as to reduce the paint flaking risk) and somewhere up out of sight of her in a big pile of other unrelated bags was a bag full of wrapping paper, cards and 3 items that had been deemed to risky. DD has no idea of the existence of the stash and TBH until I found it, I didn't either. I threw away the paper, transferred the cards to a keepsake draw and put the remaining presents into a far smaller bag and returned them to their approximate original location. What I was upset about were the toys of DD's that we took to the party along with craft stuff and science experiments, that were in a different bag. There was no issue with these at all, except that DH didn't know what I done and how, and hence felt the need to assume I had contaminated everything with the suspect presents as a default position, rather than asking me what had actually happened. He then took those toys back again...and actually still hasn't returned them.

The business with stuff from the kitchen collapse was actually a fairly reasonable worry that all the smashed glass had been washed out of everything before returning it to the kitchen. The unreasonable bit was that he hadn't trusted me with this job but instead left it undone for 3 months.

So the discussion was not an unqualified success

On the one hand he seems committed to change and measurable outcomes of change. On the other hand he was saying he thought he could manage 1 hour a week working on relaxation techniques and other things his previous therapist has recommended and there is no need to involve any other HCP in things yet.

He said he couldn't spend more time on it than that because he would get behind with important things on his todo list. He still seems to be struggling with the idea that this is more important than his to do list. His todo list includes such things as making all the rooms in the house accessible etc. so things that do need addressing and not personal projects or anything, but not as important as making progress with his mental health.

Okay had another chat and made progress on the above. Now it looks like I should expect some of the todo list to be passed over and to take DD for a period of time each day so he can work on things. Much more positive!

Well done for trying Ice, but you need to realise just how far from normal your husband's rituals are. There shouldn't even be a todo list at all.
He needs professional help.

He does need professional help.

And you say it's important to you that dd doesn't get sucked into lying for your dh... Don't you think it's time you stop lying for your dh and covering up the real reasons he won't do things or allow your dd to do. It's something she will witness, probably has already, and that's not right. And it's enabling him - to minimise his issue and allow him to keep it as the family norm. Stop lying for him. Stop covering. This needs a light shone on it.

I really feel for you, it all sounds horribly exhausting. I have read the whole thread & must agree with others that professional help is needed. I also feel for your daughter - I have nothing against Home ed, a member of my extended family does this but I wonder if your H is the right person to be her main educator. Good Luck.

Do you know why he is resistant of therapy? Is it because it's uncomfortable for him? It's a lame excuse he has used as a therapy session each week is not going to take up much time.

I'm sorry if I missed it earlier but did your DD open her presents and then they were snuck away or did your DH open them?

I honestly think if you want to work on your marriage you need to really dig your heels in, be clear on what you need from him, what he needs to actively work toward and where you expect to be in the not too distant future. You can negotiate the time scale and the order but not what you need to make this a happy marriage again and for your DD's upbringing.

If you allow him to whitewash over this you will just find yourself right back to feeling like throwing in the towel - or worse you will end up depressed again.

I do feel for you, MH issues are really hard to live with, you can support your husband but at the end of the day only he can actively work to resolve them to a more manageable and healthier level.

We tried her in nursery for around 9 months without ever progressing beyond sitting in a corner with hands over her ears, crying silently to herself. We stopped when the staff began reporting this as 'she was fine - had a good time' etc

How do you know this was going on for the whole session? Were you there (not sure if one of you stayed?).

I only ask as I know that children can revert back to "expected" behaviours when they see parents etc or are aware they are arriving

although I had to stitch some covering over the printed on logo on her favourite one so as to reduce the paint flaking risk

I have to ask, why do you do things like this? It is purely to placate your husband (in which case you are enabling and reinforcing his mental health problems) or do you also believe that paint poses a considerable health risk?

Agree jinx, hence my comment re skewed perspective below. Feeling the need to do this, out of deference to h's mental health issues or for own reasons is not the norm. Maybe talk this through with gp on your own before tackling h. It doesn't sound as if he recognises the significance of his issues. Are there also rituals in place for when he has taken dd out to a group and returns home, to avoid cross contamination for example.

gobbo I am somewhat ashamed to say that I spied during the last hour of one morning. Peaked in through the window a half dozen times during one morning after the staff declared a wonderful turnaround and said she was now 'settled' in. She was withdrawn and teary every time I looked baring the once she was eating toast.

I went in to pick her up all bright and breezy and said 'oh, she looks a bit miserable there' and got the standard, oh she's been fine, she just got a bit upset in the last 5 mins. Bollocks to that. She told me they had told her if she wouldn't stop crying she could just sit in the corner all day. I don't know if that is true obvs, but on the basis they were lying to me about things I had personally seen, I just took her out.

I stitched the label on because otherwise DH would have done it and life is too short for the amount of grief that would have taken.

I made the point to him last night that I felt his level of experienced threat and anxiety about lead had increased since DD was a toddler, which is illogical as she is getting older and doesn't mouth everything she touches anymore. I also pointed out that constantly appeasing the anxiety was a know way to increase is long term and that I hated being a part of that. He said he would think about that carefully.

In the end it always comes down to 'yeah but what are we really gaining by doing X that could possibly justify the unnecessary risk?' I say 'Well what can justify the additional threat of driving DD in a car?' Why not just stay in the whole time....but he doesn't have anxiety about driving the car so he just doesn't get it, or understand the comparison.

Well, they sound like bastards.

My 2 and 3 year olds go to a lovely nursery where there is no way any DC woukd be treated like that

How is your health visitor? Could you speak to her for some recommendations of nurturing places?

I stitched the label on because otherwise DH would have done it and life is too short for the amount of grief that would have taken.

I'm not clear whether you mean his anxiety would have made your and in turn your dds life intolerable until you/he had done it or if you felt the need to anticipate his reaction. Either way he has conditioned you to act as you did, that is not healthy.

Yes LIZS. He has conditioned you op. You asked what was meant by anxious parents. We hear your DH is anxious. This type of behaviour you manifested is also anxious and not conducive to a happy, relaxed mummy. Bottom line, if neither of you can relax, your DD is going to be very damaged.

Please don't let your experience of nursery colour your future decisions. They were awful. This behaviour would never sit in dds school. The staff are under massive scrutiny as in any school. The SN kids have 1-2-1 support if necessary and all is done within the legal requirements.

Please don't let your experience of nursery colour your future decisions. They were awful. This behaviour would never sit in dds school

My dd took a long time to settle in at nursery, but they told me the truth, they never lied about it. I'm not surprised that your dd didn't settle with such unpleasant people.

How old was she when you took her out?