Just handed back my wedding ring, not sure what happens next...

[IceBeing]

No real drama, no OW or OM, just mental health problems and a total lack of kindness or consideration left in the relationship.

Final straw today was that I decided to try and help out clearing a big pile of junk that resulted from a combination of a shelf collapsing in our kitchen and my DD's birthday, both of which happened over 3 months ago.

When DH found out he was stomping and sulking because I shouldn't have touched the piles of junk and because I had he now had to retrace everything I had done and wash everything and put all DD's toys and presents back into a pile of junk.

The reason for this being that one of the bags contained a hand painted wooden box DD (5yo) had been given by a friend at her birthday. And because DH doesn't know what paint was used it is by default toxic...and so is anything it touched, anything that even might have been in the same bag, anything that was in the room when I opened the bag etc. etc.

So my DD can't have that present, or the other ones in the bag with it, she can't have her toys from the party back and our house is slowly being consumed by increasing piles of junk that noone but DH is allowed near, but that he never gets around to doing anything about.

I can't go in one of the rooms of the house and the garage has been off limits for around 4 years.

So my attempt at increasing the net amount of kindness in the house has back fired epically. I just can't do it anymore.

But what now?

One of the ways of dealing with some of these issues is to gradually desensitise. DH has created a bubble filled with his anxieties and enforced by what seems to many PPs as a slightly paranoid view of the outside world that you (to some extent) seem to share.
To counteract, serious professional help and more exposure to the outside world seems the solution that others suggest and that's why the idea of school gets suggested. It's exposure to other viewpoints, other ways of doing things - in effect a different set of experiences outside of your own bubble.
May be it's not for you - homeschoolers I know seem to do a lot of outside learning, getting messy, holistic stuff. But I guess if your DH is worried about contamination then how much freedom to explore does your DD get?
Good therapy would look at/video you as parents interacting with DD and look back at it with you to see what's your input and what's hers.
Sadly, the world is a scary place and full of hazards, imperfect behaviour, choices to make so I guess what PP are seeing is that the home environment is narrowing DD's outlook and showing her anxieties and ways of living with them at what seems an enormous cost. You clearly are straining at the confines so now is time to get help.
Book a double appt at the GPs or invite HV round and go into depth. Be prepared to explore their suggestions.

Have you thought about a special needs school? I wonder if an autism specialist school might be able to offer a perfect combination of excellent SEN experience, low stimulation environment and understanding of how to deal with highly anxious children who might be upset by atypical things.

Agree with everyone else that avoiding school is not helping her. Rather then "dump her in and wait until the screaming stops" a more realistic approach would be to find a school willing to do a phased start, say an hour a day to begin with and build up as she learns better coping skills and becomes more comfortable.

In any case the best way to get her help (both home ed and in school) is to get her an EHIC (new version of Statement of Special Needs). It's a passport to so much support she wouldn't otherwise access. A few tests is a tiny price to pay for an improved future and the ability to become a happy independent adult.

Sorry you're having a hard time, you sound like a very loving mother and your DP a loving dad, but you are not giving her an environment in which she can flourish. Bite the bullet and make a change for her sake, BECAUSE you are good loving parents.

I'm horrified that you're thinking of leaving your daughter to live with her dad. Your home sounds such an unhealthy environment for each of you.

You need to see your GP, OP. It's very important your child has some relief from her father's OCD. I know home-schooling's a hot topic on MN but I just can't see how anyone could think that it was healthy for a little girl to be home-educated by someone who's suffering from such levels of OCD and anxiety. The effects on her already are very distressing to hear about.

First steps: gp appointment to get your daughter diagnosed. It's a long cycle but it's important. Even if she is H-ed you need to know what her specific issues are and to receive support for her from professionals such as occupational therapists. She doesn't deserve to live with anxiety and a lot can be done to help her.

DH needs to go too and arrange support for himself.

The H-ed is the least important issue. That can be looked at once all parties know what issues are there and are receiving support and learning strategies to help. It may end up being the best choice still, but with support from the right groups such as ASD groups.

I'm saying this as a parent who has two children with differing ASD and sensory issues. Both attend mainstream school and there are a lot of struggles but it's knowing what they need that's making it possible.

I don't know what it is like when they are out and about.

DH isn't usually concerned by natural dirt. mud, slime, insects etc. His fears focus on man-made hazards such as the lead paint, or other metal contamination, or sometimes chemical contamination. TBH he used to be very concerned about natural environments also, but has worked very hard in the past to eliminate them from his anxiety. So at the moment the problems are predominantly lead and hence paint, light bulbs, petrol and engine oil. Mostly the lead though.

A typical week is running around with 4-5 others kids in the 4-9 range at the local botanic gardens on a Monday, Tuesday is usually them by themselves (usually going to local nature reserves or forests (DD LOVES forests). Wednesday is horse riding lessons then hanging out with a different H-ed circle in local city. Thursday is currently music sessions. Friday is some sort of forest school that usually dissolves into den building and fire making in the forest again. Saturday I spend several hours off with DD on our own, we do the shopping but mostly just eat a very slow long lunch and chat about anything and everything. I like to think this is valuable Mum-Daughter time. Sunday I take her swimming for around 3 hours (she also loves swimming and is impossible to get out of the water in under 2 hours...) again just the two of us...though we usually pick up some other kids to play with once in the pool as DD is quite sociable in that way (as long as she has adult support in the vicinity).

MichelaS something about the kind criticism of your post really hit home. Thank you for not painting things as black and white and yet delivery a forceful message.

I think I am going to introduce DH to SMART goal setting. It seems like so much management speak but could actually be the difference between what we have been doing, which is agreeing that things are wrong and that things need to change and making vague assertions about what might fix them, and setting achievable goals with fixed time limits and objective measures of success.

Michaela above talks about EHICS , she means EHCP an education health and care plan. However your DD would be very unlikely to get one of these as they are based on evidence gathered over time of a child's difficulties in school and you have no evidence. The LA would have no basis of evidence to make a decision on. Similarly looking at SEN schools would be very premature. There is no evidence of how she would manage in a supportive mainstream environment, which the LA would need before considering SEN provision.

I also disagree with those posters saying first step should be diagnostic assessment for your DD. I work on a diagnostic team (autism) and we would not diagnose a child with this sort of home situation unless / until there had been some attempt at normalisation of her life experiences. At present it is impossible to tell if her anxiety, handled differently, would be manageable. She is currently being taught daily that things are scary and unsafe so her highly anxious responding could be an adaptive response to that situation. In my opinion, you as parents need to change first, so you are offering a more resilience- focused childhood for her and only then would we look at whether her intrinsic anxiety is the problem. The reality is, as you said yourself, it us likely a combination of sensitive child and over responsive, anxious parenting.

It is incredibly positive that your DH has moved forward on this to seeing the bigger picture. The crucial point he / you need to bear in mind is that parenting isn't about protecting our children from life. It is about preparing them for life. You have to have the long term goals in mind. Short term pain for long-term gain.

thanks old I did wonder if just rocking up to a SEN school was really plausible....although it did occur to me that such facilities may also exist in the private sector, which wouldn't be out of the question for us.

Poor DD. I don't know how I could have let it get this far .

She is usually crying with fear getting in the car these days because she is terrified her seat belt isn't tight enough.

She also cut her thumb at the beach and didn't tell us she was hurt, and screamed when I asked to see it. She claims this is because she doesn't want to ever go back to the doctors...but I don't think she has actually had a bad doctor experience for well over 2 years so that is presumably a smoke screen of some sort.

Poor little soul. I feel terrible.

There are a few mainstream private schools which specialise in nurture rather than results. The sen parent grapevine usually knows which ones. Anything independent specialist would be incredibly expensive, sorry.

Oh bless her. Don't beat yourself up, she is still young and sometimes when you are living in the midst of it - it's hard to see things clearly. You are looking to resolve and improve the home environment and that's the most important thing.

Make sure you continue to be honest with your DH regarding the effect on DD and on you.

She needs a proper education as well as a structure. With SEN help and support if needed around normal variations of different people that she will encounter everyday in her future ahead of her.

Building dens and camp fires is all very well but it's not the real world is it? How will she support herself when she is older? Do you want her on the dole for the rest of her life or worse falling prey to a rich controlling man?

Run - I don't think that's very helpful. The problem is not home ed - which can be great - but the fact that dd is being home educated by someone with such severe and limiting MH issues.

In a round about way that was what I was trying to say. That's the point about home ed you don't get a rounded view of life it can be very blinkered.

Just want to give you my experience with my dd1.
As a baby she would only be held by me -woukd scream even with her father. Baby massage, baby groups made her scream. Me wearing deodorant with a scent made her scream. Doing anything stimulating made her scream. I went back to work to basically get a break from her. She never slept and it was very very hard (she's still not a great sleeper at 5). I could never do toddler groups with her as it was just too much. Birthday parties were similar - wed stand outside or at the door just looking in but she'd completely melted down if we forced her in even for just 5 minutes.

Preschool was a complete disaster, but we persevered gently gently until by the end of the year she was doing 3 mornings a week.
I was all set to hone educate but decide to give school a go.

School were soooo good with her. She was only just doing a full week after her first half term. They understand her issues, talk through things with her, and she "helps with the paperwork" with a TA if she is getting overwhelmed. She absolutely loves school and can't wait to go back into yr1 next week. She has actually had play dates and is making friends -which I never thought I'd see! The school has her on the SEN list for social emotional issues and is working with her sensory issues incredibly well.

Some modern schools are amazing places.

(I also have anxiety ishoos and contamination/intrusive thoughts OCD)

more HE bashing... You really can't win. people assume HE means learning in isolation with no peer group contact...when you point out how much learning in groups they do out in the world people tut that they should be more structured.

I am not in the slightest worried about my DDs academic or social education. She would only legally have had to start school this coming September in any case. She can already read simple sentences and deal with addition, subtraction, fractions and negative numbers. She has around 20 friends and 4 close friends many of whom she sees several times a week. She does ice skating, scooting, skipping, horse riding and climbing, she can swim 25 meters in 3 different strokes, she is now learning violin and loves making stop motion movies. Actually I do worry that if she is HE all the way through, at some point we will have to explain that understanding the subject and being able to give a reasoned correct answer to questions isn't going to get you decent A-level results...and that instead you need to memorise and recite the boxed answers from the textbook, regardless of their factual accuracy. (Please, don't anyone try to tell me this is a paranoid or pessimistic view point, because I teach in Higher Education and have to deal directly with the fall out from students who think we are lying or tricking them when we tell them there are different correct answers and different valid approaches to producing solutions, and that, as their exams are marked by professionals in the field, any reasonably thought through logically consistent answer will get the marks.)

No, It is her mental health that is the worry. I know it isn't going to be good in school and now it feels like our current HE format isn't any good either. If stick-her-in-school was a straight forward answer you may be sure I would have done it already.

In an earlier post, you said your DD would be "miserable and crippled" if she went to school.

I am not advocating school per say. However, if something doesn't change with her environment, your DD is going to grow up being extremely miserable and crippled.

I know someone, who had very dysfunctional parenting and the outcome isn't pretty. He's a member of dhs family and he will never be anything more than a parasite on this earth, unfortunately. I do not say this lightly. Dh and I tried very hard to help him but the damage done by his parents was so severe that he will never recover. He's been to prison and now in his kate 30's, lives with his mother having bled her and his grandmother dry, beats her, I could go on. If he lived in the uk, we would have pursued having him sectioned but it wasn't possible there.

Please don't let your DD end up like this. It's awful existence.

susan thank you for sharing that. How did you organise permission (for lack of a better word) to do the settling in so slowly? We did visit some schools last year but all we got back was 'oh they all find it difficult to begin with' and 'short sharp shock is best' type comments.

Did you have a diagnosis before hand?

And I should have said, I have met a lot of HE people and the experiences of the children seem amazing. But this doesn't seem to be working in your family set up because of your dhs mental health. What the solution is, I don't know. Susans post was interesting.

Oh and dd1 still has issues. She's refusing to get in the bath for over a week now as she got a blister on her foot. She won't go upstairs to her room on her own even if someone is already upstairs - she wants hand holding up the stairs. She's scared of her bike, scooter and balance bike. She's scared of balloons, moths, flies, spiders, butterflies ffs. She will scream the place down at the smallest injury in complete panic. Abd she's still a crap sleeper. She doesn't like walking anywhere if she has to pass someone on the pavement and wants the buggy ir picking up - which is impossible as I have a newborn in the sling and a toddler in the buggy. But she just panics. We are working on it though!

Dd1 even found the HE groups too overwhelming!

The gradual settling in happened on their suggestion after they met her - they assessed her needs very well and I was so happy because basically anything I was going to request they suggested first . To the point where they would say "keep her home tomorrow and just do the morning on Friday" for example.

We have no diagnosis but the school and we at home are working on the assumption that she has High functioning autism with some sensory processing disorder s and associated anxiety

The school work out the SEN programme after they start and goes on and and is adjusted all the time to the child's needs, some of this is one to one teaching.

You are very negative about main stream education OP! In a way I understand where you are coming from. I work in a small primary school and issues like bullying do occur; I also think that many teachers would agree that there is too much emphasis placed on SATS and educating for exams in general.
BUT you and other posters seem to be using the h-ed /school issue as a kind of red herring. It isn't the main problem - the main problem is your DHs MH issues as I'm sure you know. Don't let yourself be distracted by arguing about schooling; just concentrate for the moment on getting him to get help, or - if necessary - planning a life without him. I know that that's easier said than done. Good luck.

I can totally understand that, when you have a highly anxious child, it seems the best way to help is to manage or neutralise the stress. Unfortunately this compounds the issue. Anxiety, fear, sadness, anger are all entirely normal emotions and an intrinsic part of human existence. It's not normal to never experience these feelings or attempt to avoid them as a matter of course. Your DD needs, in a supportive environment, to learn how to process and manage these emotions. OP, you and DH sound like very loving parents. Can you see that perhaps your worries and those of your DH influence your thinking and behaviour in ways that inhibit your DD's emotional and social growth?

The HE isn't the problem, it's that your dh isn't coping well with his own MH problems and the two of them are feeding into each other's anxiety.