What a prick! Pissed offwith me because I've got my period.

[FindingSmeagol]

I've been away from Dp for a week with dd 2. It was only meant to be a couple of nights but she ended up in hospital for one night with an infection (absolutely fine now) so I went from there to my family as I knew he'd be working and I wanted some support. First morning home and he notices San pro in the bathroom and says 'oh ffs your kidding?!' Um no these things happen monthly and no I've no control over it . I said 'you are Joking right? He's not. He feels cheated out of another few days of sex because he knows I'm not up for it in the first few days. Not really an AIBU. Just a 'what a cockwoble' klaxon type rant. Agh and breathe.

I'm still trying to get my head round the fact he's been manipulating me and worse and a small part of me is clinging to the possibility that he's been doing it without realising it himself.

I do think it's entirely possible that he doesn't fully realise or admit to himself what he's been doing, because human beings never cease to amaze me with their capacity for self-deception. Seriously. I have Asperger's, and I look at most people as I would another species. It honestly staggers me how people can believe the lies they tell themselves. I kind of wish I could do it, because I'm sure I'd be a lot happier.

However, I agree with Lweji that there comes a point where that is irrelevant; how aware they are of what they're doing makes no difference to what they are doing to you, and the effects that has on you and your DD. Growing up in a home where this is the dynamic between your parents is not at all good. Kids pick up on the relationship and undercurrents between their parents - they don't realise consciously, necessarily, but they are internalising all that stuff to play out later. Whether he consciously meant to or not, he took advantage of a vulnerable 16 year old and moulded her into a woman who is always sexually available to him, stays 'pure' [vom] for him, and avoids conflict to keep the peace (apart from over him being too hard on your DD). I'm sure that's not what you want your DD to absorb about what a 'normal' relationship is.

I'm not trying to push you, I'm really not - I still don't utterly discount your hope that he's just unself-aware, self-deceptive, selfish, and could change if he realised what a cock he's been. I understand why you would want to make sure of that. I do agree with pp, though, that it would be safe to have your exit plan all formulated before you buck the status quo that he has created.

OP - I said upthread, I don't think he will go quietly, or considerately. He will not relinquish control so easily; be careful.

... and if he can manipulate, cajole and Rape without thought of/for you, then he can get nasty.

Smeagol, you're doing ace. You're doing absolutely amazingly.

Stay strong, stay safe, stay you xx

You really are doing so well. Hope tonight goes ok.

It must be a hugely painful to really see the relationship with open eyes. I can relate to that and I'm really impressed by how well you're handling this Smeagol

My DDs dad "broke up" with me and left the country (literally. We were travelling in Thailand and he literally left for Cambodia without telling me) because I wasn't into sex because I was feeling nauseous (I was unknowingly pregnant). I became a "men are pigs and only deserve the dirt" type of woman for a while after that.... Ugh, men and their penises.

Seriously though, OP, sort him out. You deserve more respect than to be treated like a sex toy.

Have just read the whole thread, and Smeagol, you are amazing. The way you've listened, taken stuff in and made strong, sensible decisions has left me in awe. You're so brave. You can do so much better than this nasty, controlling knob. Keep looking out for yourself and your DD, and stay safe

To everyone who is concerned about our safety. I'm not going to let us get in any position where its compromised.

This is a very extreme example and I'm not suggesting it's comparable, but that's what Reeva Steenkamp would have thought.

Bottom line is you have no idea how far he will go if he feels his control slipping. I know someone who, escaping a sexually abusive relationship, was raped so viciously by her partner she ended up in hopsital. He'd never gone anything like that far before.

Panic attacks, PTSD and non-mol orders followed. You don't want to risk it.

You don't owe him a warning period when he clocks that his relationship is on the rocks. It's crazy. It's not going to make it any easier for him anyway.

Leave the safe way, without warning, just as women are always advised to leave abusive partners. Safety first. Always.

I don't have much advice to add only to say that some posters have suggested to see your GP. Where I work I would be able to refer you to a rape and sexual assault centre for help and advice as well as to access counselling and I would be doing all within my power to get you the help and support you needed quickly and would want you to know you could come and see me for support at any time. If you do have a GP you feel you can trust I would encourage you to see them. Hopefully they will be able to help and while I hope you never need to use it, it will act as documentation of what has been happening, that you have taken control and are NOT unfit to care for your dd. You are doing brilliantly.

Others have said it more eloquently than I can, but I have to disagree that he's good with DD. Even from the few things you've described, and putting it through "abused wife"* filter, he sounds like a dreadful father.

• I have read so many times in here that the last resort of the abused wife, unable to say anything nice about his husbanding, says "he's a good farher..." Hope you don't think I think this makes you a cliché - quite the opposite! But, ya know, with so many things you're admirably taking on board, some nuances might take a bit to catch up.

I think the reason I've listened on here is because I'm finally ready to hear it. I still can't listen to some things posters are saying. Even though it's just a word to describe sex you don't want I just can't relate to it myself.

Leaving the safe way is good. It's what a responsible mother would do. I'm not going to try and play him. I just want to know where I stand. If I hadn't of been such a weak, appeasing drip would things have gone this far? Maybe he just needed a stronger woman in his life. These are just hypothetical questions and I'm still in no doubt that I want to leave him but it does make you think.

I've stayed away from the gp so far as I was worried about being the alcoholic mother who wasn't fit to care for her dd past 9pm.

I've really tried to avoid the he's a great Dad line but I felt it needed to be said that he's not directly abusive with her. Just baffled that she doesn't give a flying fuck what he says or how loudly he says it. He said in wonderment the other day 'you jumped more when I just shouted at her, she didn't even notice'. Luckily she's stronger than her mother!

I think you are a strong woman, Smeagol. The point is that he deliberately targeted a 16 year old because you wouldn't have enough experience to recognise what he was up to and to resist him. If you hadn't come along he'd have found another inexperienced 16 year old, he would never voluntarily choose a strong and experienced older woman.

Abusers find fun in mentally and emotionally taking a strong woman apart.

Do not let yourself be convinced that if you were stronger he wouldn't have done this to you because that isn't true.

What he saw when he met you was a loving caring person, free, happy with her world and ready to attack her life. Your 'vulnerability' was the same as mine, you cared and loved people and thought people were intrinsically good, once he'd 'caught' you and you loved him he set about taking you apart because he knew you loved him and you'd find it hard to give up on him.

My IDVA told me that emotional/psychological abusers are only attracted to strong women because weak women would be no fun. The message she really wanted me to get was that I had the strength to get out, to build a life and to move on, that my abuser knew this and that his greatest fear was me realising it.

Stay safe and plan your escape carefully but never forget that you are a strong woman and the life ahead of you, when all this is sorted, will be amazing because it will be yours.

Smeagol you are doing so great. He is going to go apeshit when he realises you are not his little sex puppet any more. for you and a nice cuddly for your DD.

I actually find it worrying that she doesn't jump when he shouts - she's already used to his appalling behaviour - it's normal for her, and that is scary

Amen to that Freemanbatch. Some people need to tear others down. that is why they enter into relationships. The better the woman, the more of a sense of satisfaction they feel as they destroy her.

You were his project, Smeagol.
Your DD would be his next one.

Do stay safe, and make your plans with determination and the utmost discretion.

Don't underestimate what he may be capable of, including getting a whiff that things have changed in some way he can't put his finger on. His response could be flowers and chocolates and it could be something else entirely. Both angles are designed to keep you under his thumb.

To everyone who is concerned about our safety. I'm not going to let us get in any position where its compromised. I will be hyper aware.
Don't overestimate the amount of control you have over this situation. There are two people and DD involved here, and one of the people is not a rational, reasonable man who puts the welfare and interests of his wife and child before his own very narrow agenda. He is used to calling the shots.

I'm not going to try and play him. I just want to know where I stand.
PLEASE just face the fact that you will need to walk away without closure, and that you may never learn the answers to all the questions you have.
How has all of this made you feel? That is all that matters. This is so hard, but you must not hold out for answers.

You do not owe him anything.
You don't owe him a warning of what you are planning.
You don't owe him an explanation or a showdown.
You don't owe him the chance to put on a show of remorse while he will at the same time watch you closely to see how much of it you are buying, and what little boundaries he can cross once you have relaxed a bit.

Make your plans quickly and thoroughly, and leave.
Please try WA again, and again after that if necessary.
There is lots of help here, and so many rooting for you.

Smeagol I gave my husband time to catch up with my thinking rather than just leaving.

It didn't serve any useful purpose. He changed behaviour so I got completely confused. Its difficult to stay strong in your resolve when life is different.

He behaved like it wasn't happening. I started to think he was right, I'd never get to leave. And of course he was unpleasant when he realised I was really leaving.

None of that period involved any actual adjustment, it was unpleasant for all of us.

He is probably never going to see your reasons for leaving, won't acknowledge the problems of the relationship. You are going to have to be brave enough to make a decision on your own and you'll need strength for that. Staying in the miserable limbo sucks all your energy.

Posters are of course right, you don't owe him anything. You should be looking after yourself.
It shouldn't be your concern but maybe you will feel guilt. I felt awful about ruining my husband's life - despite his behaviour that led to where we are. So in case it helps - your partner will be OK. He is a grown up, he will survive. It'll be shit like it is for everyone who goes through a break up - but like others he'll have to work through that.

There are no easy answers re your worries about your daughter. I know you've had some advice about contact. Realistically there may be contact and you may all have to adjust. And everyone will, I've had lots of reassurance on that from other MNers. It is tough, but do you know, I've realised that I had no choice. I couldn't stay no matter how tough it is being apart from my DC when they are with their dad. It wasn't a healthy relationship for me. DC need me to be OK. Your DD needs you to be OK.

You're doing really well.

I spent about two to three years warning my x his behaviour was intolerable to me and when i left he told everybody who'd listen that i left him "out of the blue".

I actually find it worrying that she doesn't jump when he shouts - she's already used to his appalling behaviour - it's normal for her, and that is scary

This.

I've really tried to avoid the he's a great Dad line but I felt it needed to be said that he's not directly abusive with her. Just baffled that she doesn't give a flying fuck what he says or how loudly he says it. He said in wonderment the other day 'you jumped more when I just shouted at her, she didn't even notice'. Luckily she's stronger than her mother!

Shouting at a child IS abusive! And he is now using shouting at her to get to you.

This is so sad.

He said in wonderment the other day 'you jumped more when I just shouted at her, - not for long. The more she is exposed to him 'shouting' at her the more likely she is to start 'jumping'.

And when 'shouting' has no effect - what then?

Raising dd is the one area I continually assert myself on. Yes it gets me into trouble but I don't back down and I will tell him if I think I don't agree with his parenting methods. I would never let him lay a finger on her. He has aggreed never to punish her physically. I agree that resorting to shouting can be abusive. If I try to analyse it I'd imagine he does it because subtler methods of discipline do not work on her (do they on any toddler?) and as I've said before he's not used to people defying him. I'm not excusing it for a moment and I'm not saying he's a great parent. Just that looking to the future re: contact, I don't think her physical safety would be in jeopardy.

Smeagol I think you're amazing. You came in here to have a rant-ette and have discovered your relationship is unhealthy and abusive. You have listened to what people have had to say, considered the accounts of others and applied it to your own situation. I applaud you for your courage in being open to the idea that you perhaps should end your relationship and stay true to yourself.

I wish mumsnet had been around earlier when I was going through hell with abusive relationships and that someone had been able to help me to see it was not my fault! Make the most of the collective experience and allow us to help you avoid the same path many of us have trodden.

With best wishes for your glorious happy safe future

Regarding your DD, I'd see how it goes and how he reacts when you leave.

He could start using access to further abuse you, and therefore abuse your DD.
So, thread carefully there and be prepared to cut contact if necessary and not facilitate at all. There's more to abuse than just physical. Certainly the shouting, but also how he talks to her about you or manipulating her psychologically and emotionally after separation. It's well worth keeping an eye on this.