Can we have a thread for those of us who are daughters with difficult mothers?

[PinkyofPie]

Been thinking about starting this thread for a while.

My mother is a difficult and sometimes toxic woman and we have a strained relationship.

I think IRL there's not enough people around like me, all my friends are best friends with their mums. My mum recently moved back to the area and all I get is "oh I bet you're so happy". Actually, no, her being closer is awful if I'm honest.

There's so much to my relationship with her, too much for an OP.

A huge bone of contention is that she knows about a family member sexually harassing me quite badly through my teens (I've posted details in another name). I'm talking flashing, suggestive language and grabbing me now and again when no one was looking. I have told her the details. This person is still very much in her life, she bigs him up to anyone who listens and can't understand why I despise him and won't be near him. She minimised his behaviour massively and We Don't Talk About It.

She also made comments along the lines of "well did you lead him on?" yes mum, I was 16 and he was 55, I was gagging for it with a relative.

being in her presence is very tiring. She has no friends so I feel pressured to see her now she's back near me. I met her today, and I am drained. I always feel like I've done something wrong, she's in a constant mood. Everything is crap, she hates any food we eat, complains about people nearby and won't look for the good in anything. Where she lived before was so much better apparently. Spending just a few hours round that negativity is exhausting.

The funny thing is she makes out to others like we extremely close. A daughter of her friend - who I had just met that night - once said to me "I'm so jealous about the bond you and your mum have"

Anyway I know MN has lots of people who feel the same so thought I would start by having a place for us long suffering daughters to share, moan, vent and generally get everything out into the open!

Iron
That is horrific
I'm so sorry

Thank you Snort and Attila. It was rather a self indulgent post and I probably shouldn't have gone into such detail but is so close to me as a memory. Thanks so much for your kind words. I will look in to what you have advised. It really has been a tough, well, the toughest year of my life and I wonder if it is because this is at the forefront of my mind. Anyway I am going to have the self indulgent post removed now also.

Not self-indulgent at all. Heartfelt. Although of course get it removed if you wish. it is to share your story. Even it can never be safely mentioned to friends or family there is space here and many empathetic listeners.

Can I just ask, has anyone ever regretted going NC? I'm quite LC now, it's been quite easy as M is massively lazy and only contacts me when she's got nothing better to do and needs some information about me so she can keep up the pretence that we're close to other family members. I still dread her calls though.

I get nothing from my relationship with her except feeling drained and emotional. My DH will support whatever I want to do, my DD barely knows her so sometimes I wonder 'what's the point?'.

I think the only reason I haven't done it yet is that I just haven't got the energy to go through with it. She's so manipulative and turns everything back on anyone who dares to point out any of her flaws.

I think I'm just waiting for her to do something really shitty so I can use that as a reason. Anyone else feel like this or is that totally crazy?

My brother is like that with our mother. She's lazy about contacting him, it's down to only e mails now. They e mail about once every 2-3 weeks. He says he would like to go NC but it doesn't seem worth the inevitable fall out and hassle, so he just makes sure to send a banal e mail once or twice a month and maybe see her briefly (they live about 4 hours apart) once a year or so.

I probably should NC, and I know I need to get the Toxic Parents book, but I am slowly coming through the worst of the FOG about my DPs, particularly my DM. Not as bad as many stories here, but bad enough.

I have often been the black sheep (large Irish family). I have been LC for quite a while. I have gotten better at putting my boundaries in place.

The last while, it seems like there is some shift - I am, not quite the Golden Child, but do seem to be back in favour. I have just been quietly getting on with life, and dealing with other problems. DM is trying to get involved in some (there is drama involved - although I am not emphasizing that at all), but also seems supportive on the surface. I am facilitating relationships, while keeping my boundaries in place and planning ahead for meetings/calls to head off certain things.

But I know DM is also realizing that her own family is difficult and feeling hurt by what is going on. I am not getting involved in it. I am also not allowing DM to control my relationships with Siblings. Nor am I allowing DM to suck me in with being nice.

It has taken years of DH building my self-esteem, therapy, my own reading and working things out, and trying to build myself back up to acknowledging that I am a decent person to get to this point. And I still have a long way to go. All I can do is look out for me first, DH and DC next, and then wider family.

I actually want my mother to die. I resent and despise her so much. But she will probably linger on for another 15/20 years and will use up all the money/property my dad left her so I will even have to pay for the bitch's funeral.

I can't even be arsed this tell the story of why I feel like this... Done therapy/workshops/meditation to try to shift my feelings toward her. Nothing works. Since I became a mum myself I despise her even more.

jollo

Bird - sounds like that works for your brother. M only lives 10 minutes away from me so the potential for her to just turn up is always there. It's unlikely but not unheard of.

BiddyPop, I think concentrating on yourself and family is the best solution. I'm finding that so much of my thought processes are taken up with her and all the crap she left me feeling, it's hard to break free from but I'm trying.

Jolly, I know how you feel when you say it's worse since you became a mother yourself. I naively thought that I would somehow understand her point of view more, in truth, I understand less. I could never hurt my DD the way she hurt me.

I'm finding that so much of my thought processes are taken up with her and all the crap she left me feeling, it's hard to break free from but I'm trying.

YY to this.

Mine flounced off to another country once I stopped playing her game, ut not before bitching and lying (really awful stuff) to the people who bought her house. Still see them around the village and they blank me a lot of the time, so that makes getting her out of my head harder. Hate her for that.

I think my life would be easier if she died, but she's only about 75 so could go for yeeeeeaaars yet. She's cut me out of the will too, which is just vindictiveness, either that or is her saying I am untrustworthy. She's left it to my brother and my kids, but I am allowed not access.
I don't care about the money but it's her being controlling right to the end.

I suppose I'm LC by default too. Live five hours away, never call or contact them, get a phone call from them maybe once a month to once every 6 weeks. I almost always let it go to voicemail at least once then eventually psych myself up to calling back and having a 10-minute conversation. See my mother maybe twice a year and father perhaps four times (he has a habit of suddenly announcing he's going to be in the area and coming to stay).

It's still far too much.

I've been reading this whole thread & feel so desperately sad there are so many of us in this same situation. Hugs to us all.

I can't even begin to unpick my relationship with my mother but we are now in a situation of practically NC for a year. I spent a large part of my childhood dealing with father's alcoholism/violence and I thought my mother was the good person. Sadly, I have come to realise that she wasn't - I think because she was also on the receiving end of his behaviour, it felt like I should pity her. I did for a long time but then I realised that she was the parent & should have protected me more than she did. There was always the threat of "wait until your father gets home" if I misbehaved.

Things have always been up & down between my mother & I - generally when I didn't agree with her or behave in the way expected of me. I got married abroad & wouldn't wait/get married in the UK as she wanted. She didn't attend my wedding & I felt it was my fault. That was 20 years ago & she still brings it up...

Then I was ill with cancer last year & had to cancel a trip I'd arranged with her to visit family overseas. From the point of my diagnosis it was all about her - she wanted to rush to visit me & when I said I needed time alone to process - I got accused of rejecting her.

When I was in hospital, she sent nasty texts asking why I wasn't responding to her phone calls when I was trying to rest in bed.

After my major surgery she stayed at my house to allow her to visit me. I asked her to look after my cat rather than have to put him in the cattery. She didn't want the responsibility - it was only afterwards I realised that was because she wanted to bring her own cat with her to my house - she didn't even bloody well ask. When I didn't update her on my health at regular intervals, she got pissy because she wanted to be "kept in the loop".

My recovery from surgery had a few setbacks and although the plan was always to reschedule the trip with her, given her behaviour and my up & down recovery I told her I couldn't commit to it. That prompted the worst poison pen ever - dragging all sorts up which she's clearly been harbouring for years. I couldn't believe my own mother could be so cruel.

Then this year I had a landmark birthday. My dbro & sis in law had arranged a surprise weekend with my DP. We were all sitting having a glass of wine in a restaurant when in walked my mother looking for a big reunion. Made it all about her again - no thought of the impact on me or anyone else. She later told sis in law she was glad she'd come...

Now, something has fundamentally changed & I no longer hold out any hope that she'll ever see things from my point of view, or be reasonable or have any awareness of anyone's needs other than her own. I know I'm expected to sweep it all under the carpet, put on a happy face and apologise for my behaviour. Only this time I'm not going to. I think to make it all about you when your child is dealing with cancer & having major life changing surgery is unforgivable.

I never did have children myself.

haven't spoken to my mother in over ten years (that's the short story)

bumped into a friend of hers (short story).

me: that woman is a bloody bitch etc etc (meaning my mother)
her: oh
me: well. do you not know that i haven't had any contact with her for over ten years?
her: when i was her how kennypppp is she says "we haven't heard from her for a while"
me: "a while???" it;s been over ten years

and then i ranted some more.

but my mother was a horrendous person and still is i'd imagine. so i have zero advice or anything interesting to say, but i am empathising massively as i know how awful it is.

her pinnacle of "woe is me" was that she used to threaten suicide if things didn't go her way. actually - all of her behaviour was pinnacles. but that's one i've just remembered.

I've been lurking and watching this thread and hope I'm OK to post quite a bit in. My mum is/was a functioning alcoholic all through my childhood. I was left in no doubt that drink came first before anything. She very rarely had time for me and had no interest in developing a relationship with me as I grew as that would interfere with time she could spend drinking. I'm now approaching 40 and my dm has not drunk for nearly a year. Not through her own realisation though but due to her being hospitalised after a fall (as she was drunk). She was unable to drink and was put through a medical detox whilst in hospital. She also is suffering with severe memory problems (again probably due to years of alcohol abuse). She looks and is a total shell of herself now. Frail and pathetic really. It's so sad but I feel so detached from it. She needs and wants me to be there for her but I struggle as we've never had that kind of relationship before. It's worse as she is now realising the effect that her drinking has had on me and how it's destroyed her life and relationships. She left my dad as he could not accept her drinking and she refused to acknowledge a problem or accept any help. So now she wants to put it right (I think) but for me it's too late to do that. I forgive her as I'm past feeling hate or anger but I also don't think I can ever be the daughter she wants me to be now. That ship sailed years ago for me I feel. So now I'm left with feeling guilty. As awful as it sounds it was easier when she drank, then my feelings were much easier to justify!

Evening ladies, got another load of for anyone who wants one, so help yourselves.

WhatTimeIsTea, I could have written your post word for word except my dad died just over 10wks ago without ever divorcing her. I envy him in a way as not only is he not suffering anymore, but he has managed to escape the narcissistic abuse she threw at him and myself. When she decided to pick on me about anything and everything, however minor/trivial, she always waited until it was just me and her so that if I decided to say something outside of the family, she could simply say that I was lying and that I'm a drama queen. Basically her word against mine.

What I've found with mum is that she has really pulled the wool over everyone's eyes (except my closest friends, a few others and dad's youngest brother who have seen what she is like). The only people who matter to me now are the people who know me and know that I have my reasons for going LC/NC with mum. These are the people who know what mum is like.

My older brother is organising the scattering of dad's ashes but he doesn't know the half of it. I will tell him son enough as I know he'll put 2 and 2 together and get 4. As for our DC, they don't want to go see mum as they don't feel welcome (which is why they only spend 5mins with mum and bugger off to their friend's houses) and they feel like mum can't wait to get rid of them. Even the DC have picked up on mum's horrid atmosphere and a few friends who have also visited mum's place with me have noticed me being kind/caring/respectful to mum, yet mum has been very snippy with me, insulting and basically all-round nasty. I suppose it's good that mum doesn't give a toss if my friends see what she is like as they can completely back me up on her treatment of me.

Sorry folks, it feels so cathartic just being able to write down my thoughts on my past with mum and I will shut up now and let others speak

What complicates my emotions is that I know my mum isn't and wasn't a nasty and cruel lady at heart. She was an alcoholic and it was that that made her selfish, mean, spiteful and emotionally neglectful. There were snippets of normality and I always knew she loved me. I just knew she loved alcohol as much. To be honest she'd have chosen alcohol over me and my DB if that was ever a corner she'd been backed into. She certainly chose it over her husband and her home and ultimately her health. But she acted a good part of being a good mum. She insisted on being at the birth when I had my eldest DS, as I was a young, single mum at the time and alot of people assumed that due to that reason I would want her there and she would want to be there. She knew that was what a 'normal' mum would do. She manipulated me into allowing it when I didn't want that at all. I HATE the fact she was there. And for the last 18 years she's worn that like a badge of how close we are and how good a mum she is when the truth is a million miles away. It's all false emotion and sincerity and it makes me cringe with awkwardness and embarrassment as it's all an act. I have to attend hospital appointments with her and the assumption from the professionals which we deal with that I'm a doting and loving daughter is sometimes too much. It's all pretend, which pretty much sums up my entire relationship with her throughout my whole life.

Agree with PP who say how sad this all is.... Has anyone actually done anything that has helped heal their r/ship with a narcissistic mother? Workshops or books to recommend?

I don't think you can jollo. They aren't capable of making the changes required of them.

No. I think proper, full, deep down acceptance that that is what you got is the answer. But that comes in stages/layers.

I've read toxic parents as recommended by atilla some years ago. It was v eye opening as like many others on here I tended to think "it wasn't that bad" which I found is VERY common.
I've also had short periods of nc in the past when I've needed to for my own sanity....a couple of months here and there
I haven't now seen mum since Thursday - I may see her tomorrow IF I feel up to it, otherwise I will pop into town on my own.

I don't feel my mum is a narcissist. 'Just' an alcoholic. So I kind of aren't left wondering why she did what she did like maybe a daughter of a narcissistic mother would be. As it was all due to alcohol. Also it's only over the last few years that the realisation has hit me of how dysfunctional my relationship with my DM is. Plus, I do tend to play it down too. I regularly read on here of posters who have had a truly horrendous upbringing due to the actions of their parents and I feel that I haven't suffered (if that's the right word) enough to trouble anyone with me wittering on about it. I talk to DH who is lovely and always listens. Talking about it won't turn back time, stop my mum drinking her life away and ruining our potential relationship will it? I sounded more bitter and arsey than I meant to there, I'm more resigned to it now I think which makes me matter of fact about it all.

Oh, I see that the playing it down to ourselves is common!? Must be our own way of getting through it, convincing ourselves it's not that bad.....

Have you contacted al anon?

Again I haven't as I have convinced myself it wasn't that bad. She drank constantly and heavily but we were cared for, looked after etc. I always had a warm home, clean clothes, fully belly. I never found her unconscious on the floor or anything like that. She was just disinterested in me. Every aspect of me and my life. But compared to other children of alcoholics I was probably lucky wasn't I, if that makes sense?