Can we have a thread for those of us who are daughters with difficult mothers?

[PinkyofPie]

Been thinking about starting this thread for a while.

My mother is a difficult and sometimes toxic woman and we have a strained relationship.

I think IRL there's not enough people around like me, all my friends are best friends with their mums. My mum recently moved back to the area and all I get is "oh I bet you're so happy". Actually, no, her being closer is awful if I'm honest.

There's so much to my relationship with her, too much for an OP.

A huge bone of contention is that she knows about a family member sexually harassing me quite badly through my teens (I've posted details in another name). I'm talking flashing, suggestive language and grabbing me now and again when no one was looking. I have told her the details. This person is still very much in her life, she bigs him up to anyone who listens and can't understand why I despise him and won't be near him. She minimised his behaviour massively and We Don't Talk About It.

She also made comments along the lines of "well did you lead him on?" yes mum, I was 16 and he was 55, I was gagging for it with a relative.

being in her presence is very tiring. She has no friends so I feel pressured to see her now she's back near me. I met her today, and I am drained. I always feel like I've done something wrong, she's in a constant mood. Everything is crap, she hates any food we eat, complains about people nearby and won't look for the good in anything. Where she lived before was so much better apparently. Spending just a few hours round that negativity is exhausting.

The funny thing is she makes out to others like we extremely close. A daughter of her friend - who I had just met that night - once said to me "I'm so jealous about the bond you and your mum have"

Anyway I know MN has lots of people who feel the same so thought I would start by having a place for us long suffering daughters to share, moan, vent and generally get everything out into the open!

Going NC is a valid way out of the situation but you have to be ready and strong psychologically to go there. Sometimes we are not and that's the way it is.

After more than 20 years of financial abuse and 24 of emotional abuse, I am ready to go NC now, but I have to take each day as it comes as I know I am not ready yet to deal with the fact that I will not see until she dies.

So today I am NC but don't want/cannot to go further than that. The loneliness and anxiety she has caused me over the last month are unbearable. No parent should treat their child like that.

Hi Autumnhaze
No,not called and surprised she's not blowing my phone yet! Looks like she either doesn't care or went into "upset " with me mode, when she's silent on purpose so to make me feel guilty! I do feel a bit guilty but I'm not going to be manipulated into calling her. I want her to call first and apologise for last conversation, when she tried to accuse my DP of breaking the bed parts. I posted about it in the beginning of the thread. I don't think I'll ever get that apology though because she doesn't realise where and how she goes wrong :(

I'm not dealing with it the way you think I should ergo I am wrong?
Obv everyone deals with things in a different way but this thread should be a safe place to talk about things NOT to be told what to do!!

Badders
That's true everyone deals with things in different way but when someone trying to genuinely help, it's not great to say the person berating you.
Exactly because someone been where you are, can see what you going through so can have an objective opinion and can offer you way out, or at least light at the end of the tunnel.
Someone very intelligent once said : You spend same amount of energy to make yourself great or to make yourself miserable .What you make of yourself is your choice.

I suppose you have to get to the point whereby you can embrace the change. I have taken 40 odd years before I felt mentally ready to stand up to M. I knew she was wrong but I simply didn't know what to do as guilt is a large part of the controlling M's behaviour. I think when I started to recreate history with my DD I knew something had to change....that was my catalyst and lightbulb moment. Not everyone can have such a cathartic moment.
I love this thread because no one is afraid of saying anything, it's a mixture of confession and progress reports. As a previously poster said, actually admitting, albeit anonymously that your mother has been a cow to you, affected your health, life, relationships etc in a negative way is in itself a change from the norm...it's almost impossible to say out loud what are deemed negative things about mothers. We are meant to make excuses, allowances and lies to the detriment of our health to pretend that our mothers are just a 'wee bit misunderstood'.

Maybe some people don't want help right this second, maybe they don't want a solution right now, they just want a place where they can talk and work it out a bit in their head, without someone telling them what to do.

Nobody is pushing you off the thread and you are welcome to share your positive ways of dealing with your own mother, but please do not tell people that they "have to" do anything. Yes, they may end up in the same place in ten years time, or this might be the start of working out how to change things, but it's not your place to push that agenda. It's not supportive.

Took me 4 years from working it out to NC. At the beginning I was not ready to deal with it, that took time.

Like I said before, nobody is stopping you from creating a "dealing positively with a narc mum" thread, but please don't tell people here that they have to do anything.

Hmm, but people also only take "advice" when they are in a position to be receptive to it. And most advice is really given for the benefit of the giver, not the recipient.
Just being allowed to talk about where you are can change your perspective, just as speculating about how someone else might move forwards can illuminate your own path, but you can't expect them to take your advice and act on it ,

Ok fair enough.
Just to make a comment about "narc mum ".
I really don't think my mum is narc actually. I think she has severe mental health issues and has emotional intelligence of a ten year old. She's like a child in a lot of respects, feels jealous towards my partner because I give him attention (when she feels she should be getting most of attention as if she's my daughter and not my mother ).At the same time she can make (and did)incredible financial sacrifices for her dcs so I feel obliged to admit she cares about me and my sibling. Just her way of communication with me is poisonous, she doesn't make me feel good about myself and doesn't care if I'm personally happy .

Also, a lot of "difficult" people become much more difficult once the other person starts to behave differently towards (by applying boundaries, for instance) and often ramps up the unpleasant behaviour. It helps if you've had a good think and become aware of all this first. There often needs to be a lot of thinking to be done before any advice can be acted on, even if you recognise that advice as useful.

bird is right, (x posted with her earlier too or I would have posted basically the same)
It's the reason self help books are written
Section 1 do you recognise this
Section 2 what is happening and why
Section 3 what to do about it

I would welcome a " section 3" thread fwiw princess

Would not have posted..sorry !

I agree that there is room for both venting, and making positive changes like princess said. I think it's also important to point out that it's ok if you just want the former. Many of us will have lived with the equivalent of having a EA partner, even when they live in different homes, and we're too scared and worn down to challenge any upsetting behaviour.

I am trying to get to a place where I can take control back, but to my mum in just being mean. She's sent me a long ranty FB message about how she only ever does things to please other people, that she can't say no, and she's far too nice for her own good. It's stemmed from the fact that she needs a tumble dryer and my grandad has recommended one to her - I don't know if there's more to the story, but I know my mum and she likes to control every aspect of my life and other people's, but the moment anyone tries to help her she falls to the floor in a crumbled heap and makes out she's being oppressed by everyone and anyone.

She genuinely believes she's a good person and says it all the time. She says her grandma was a wonderful woman (she was from what I remember she died when I was 13) and her own mum was evil and horrible (again my nan was cantankerous and we weren't close). She told me that being nice 'skips a generation' and that's why she's lovely and I'm horrible

Ha! Sounds like my mum. She's fond of saying that she's a wonderful person who will go to heaven when she dies.

I spend most of my time concentrating on making sure I'll never be like this with my daughters! And analysing/second guessing myself.

Ha! Sounds like mine too. Peas in a pod, aren't they. I'm now seeing the "doing everything for you" guilt trip thing as desperate attempts to engage in order to fill the gaping void that is their own life. They are our mothers so they know all the buttons to push. I am hard at work rewiring disconnecting this "motherboard" Koko.

Personally I am in a much better place than I was even last year...thats progress for me and I'm pleased I can do it now.
I can't help mum. I know that. You can't help someone who doesn't want help.
The money thing is wierd...mum finds it so much easier to buy you something or offer money instead of a listening ear or a shoulder to cry on
Not that I cry
Cant remember the last time i cried

Interesting thread!

I'm not sure whether I want to post or not, so for now I'm marking my place. Maybe see you all in a couple of days....

We'll be here doing....

Just wanted to say thank you again. I'm on the verge of big changes but I've been here before and backed away. And listened to her and questioned my own decision.

I cannot express how it makes me feel to know that you are there (albeit virtually) to hear me rant and not call me a horrible selfish daughter but actually say I'm allowed to run my own life.

Especially as a long time lurker.

So thanks x

Mine is 72. She is in poor health, has been for ages now. She lives by herself in an expensive part of Norfolk. She is spending her money like she is still earning it. She will run out soon, she said she would be dead by then. She lives like a hermit. She tried to kill herself in May. On a day that we were all there (sister over from Aus with 8 month old baby) for a joint birthday celebration.

I felt nothing. Apart from anger. Rejection and betrayal. No compassion. Whats wrong with me?

Been NC for 10wks now, with mum, and have left the ball in her court. If she wants contact with her GC, she's going to have to lift the phone. That said, I'm wondering if it's a wise idea to let her speak to the DC. They are 10 and 11 and I've actively encouraged them to help me change and grow as a person by questioning me and my actions. I've helped them become the wonderful wee kids they are and they've helped me become a better mum by questioning me.

I actually asked mum what she believed she needed to do to grow and change to become a better person (without giving any clues to lead her in any direction as narcs are good at mirroring) and she went nuts shouting "I don't need to change or grow. I was, am and always will be a good mum". It told me all I needed to know about her.

The difference between me and mum is that I'm open to change, bettering myself, apologising when required and much more, yet mum absolutely refuses to do any of that, instead believing that she is a wonderful person. At dad's funeral, I told my friends beforehand to just observe how mum acts toward me. Everyone one of them did just that and were shocked that she ignored me at a time when the family should have come together. One said that my siblings were ring-fenced as the 'good' people and I was left out as the 'whipping boy', to be verbally assaulted when she felt the need.

I was thinking about the sum of money mum, and dad, gave us, and I realised mum must have decided to give me that money to 'buy my silence' for want for a better phrase. In other words, she gave me money to try and stop me from exposing her for the person she really is. When she realises that it isn't going to work, she'll probably go pre-emptive and try convincing relatives and friends that I'm paranoid, a money-grabber etc. Dad said that the money was a gift, but I feel that there were unspoken conditions regarding accepting the money. I'm saving toward giving it back, so that she has NO hold over me at all.

It's only that I have spent the weeks since dad died, reflecting on my past and I realise the emotional and mental damage mum has caused me to suffer. The last 10 weeks have seen me only keeping in contact with my closest friends (all of 4) and my older brother. He's the most sensible and trustworthy, but I've told him that should he tell mum and my other DB's anything I've told him (apart from DH, DC and myself are OK), then he'll be told absolutely nothing.

Toria, there's nothing wrong with you . I think of my relationship with my mother as a building. One that started out large and imposing - but each bit of EA, each unwarranted criticism, each manipulation, and a stone was removed from the walls. Now there are just ruins, and it's too late to rebuild (she's gaga with dementia). I feel pity for her, but that's about it. And compared with many mothers described in this thread, she wasn't that bad!

Me.

When I was 5 Mum told me that she had been offered an 'abortion on a plate'. I was the same age as my daughter now. It makes me very sad as I love and wanted my baby girl - so much.
Another time around the same age - 5, Mum played 'dead'. I don't think I will ever get over this. Ever.
She was enraged that day - so angry about something. Can't remember what. But she had a huge tantrum in our small kitchen just me and her and possibly the kitten.
First she dialled my Grandmother to tell her I was going to have to go and live with her. (Which I would have loved. Because I loved her SO, SO much and would have DIED to live with her. BUT I loved my mother beyond this world).
She faked the pressing down of the phone buttons and dialling - I remember that much. I cried and cried, and cried. She then flounced onto the floor - like she'd had a heart attack - pretending that she had died. I tried to wake her. I tried and tried but her chest had stopped going up and down and she was totally - dead.
"Mummy, Mummy!",
"Mummy - wake up Mummy!!!".
What seemed like forever and a day.

She got bolt upright and stated "See - that's what will happen if you don't behave...".

That was the biggest mind game played to me to this date. The game changer. No other human has ever had the privilege of breaking my heart like this - to this date. Unless they were equally abused.

And I cannot tell you how bereaved I was as a tiny child. I can't think of a stronger word, other than heart-broken.

Growing up with my Brother 8 years behind I tried to protect him and took all of the bullying. It was pretty fucked up looking back. Constantly hit, beat, abused mentally and physically.
Such as trying to sort out kitty litter and being kicked and hit and stamped on the chest three times. I think I was around 15. I could of hit Mum back - but why would I? I LOVE her.
A day of change came when my Brother saw her physically abuse me. I think he was around 8. She slapped me so hard around the face and he ran off and she ran after him. Says a lot.
To this day I have abused myself when I struggle.

When the chips are down I take it out on myself. I hate myself and I drink. But it shouldn't have been like this and it wasn't my fault that I was born so early in their lives.

But now?
I see her every couple of months. I am going to stay with her in a caravan this weekend. I can't shut her out. Believe me I have tried.
Because she started off so BADLY in this world.

When she was 2 she was in an orphanage being beaten black and blue. I have seen the scars on her scalp. An insane start on this planet.

I will end up looking after her for the rest of her days.

Maybe I am a stronger person for it or completely fucked up. Possibly the latter (especially when I drink).

But - that and this is life..

Iron, you weren't to blame for anything your mum CHOSE to do to you. You may have driven her nuts, but no adult has the right to lift their hand to a child. The pretending to be dead....., well,.....what can I say. I have absolutely no words to describe how out of order and despicable that was. It shows how far your mum would go to have you under her control. It's disgusting to think that a mother would abuse and manipulate the love her DC have for her in order to make them do what she wanted. On the positive side, your mum have given you a very good lesson on how NOT to parent your DC.

When a person has been through what you, and others have, I can understand why you would turn to drink/drugs. It's to escape from the pain of not being able to un-remember what you have seen and felt in your past with your abusive relatives (mums/dads/siblings, etc), whoever that happened to be.

The thing about drinking/drugs for numbing the pain of your past is that fundamentally, you're running away instead of looking at the source and trying to sort it from there. Think of it this way. Regardless of whether you drink/do drugs, your problems will still be there in the morning until they are resolved from the source (I it's possible). If the source of your problems cannot be sorted due to death/non-cooperation/other factors etc, then you can rest assured that you have tried (definitely not failed) and have done everything you can to resolve them. It may leave you feeling like you have failed, but objectively speaking, you've done what you can and, in the case of relatives, the ball is in the other person's court, so to speak.

A person's upbringing has nothing to do with the person's DC. Their DC were not responsible for how their parents were raised. If anything Iron, your mum should have strived to raise you and your DB far better than the way she was treated as a child.

FWIW, my mum expects me and my siblings to look after her. She won't even make an effort to even lift the phone and keep in contact with our DC. He can do it with her other GC though. She seems to have completely forgotten that to have a relationship with someone, it takes effort on both sides. If person A is putting in all the effort into having a relationship with person B, and B is doing sweet FA to help maintain I, then A may well start getting resentful about doing all the work in the relationship while B sits on their 'pretty little arse'. A may then stop contact (assuming they've pulled B up on their lack of effort), and in my mum's case, she is now whinging that she hasn't seen her GC in 10wks. Maybe if she made the effort and was less critical of me, then I might just WANT to go round to see her.

Anyway, I need a cuppa aftr that rant . Anyone want a

BTW, Atilla is a fantastic poster who helps you to see what your situation really is. Sometimes, when you're in the thick of things, you don't see your situation in the same way an outsider would. Outsiders tend to see the 'blind spots' of a situation because they're seeing the different aspects of our circumstances from an objective POV, IYWIM.

Iron
That is horrific
I'm so sorry

Iron

What SnortGrunt wrote (and thank you btw for your most kind comments. Re your own self I would keep your mother well away from your children, they absolutely do not need a narcissistic grandmother in their lives. Your mother was not a good parent to you, she is not going to be a decent sort of grandmother to your children)

Your own start in this world was not ideal either.

I would suggest you firstly cancel the caravan trip (cite a vomiting illness). Just do not go. It is OK not to be around someone who was and likely remain abusive. She has not apologised nor has accepted any responsibility for her actions. At the very least you need to seriously decrease the number of visits; cut them right back until you do not see her any more. No contact is a way forward for you ultimately and you certainly do not have to look after her for the rest of her days; why should you feel so obligated. She being your mother is no reason to look after her now. Fear, obligation and guilt are but three of many damaging legacies left by such people to their now adult children and you seem mired in FOG.

Many people do have awful childhoods for all sorts of reasons and they do not go onto abuse their own children in the same ways as you yourself were as a child. Some of these people get help and make active and permanent changes; your mother just repeated what was meted out to her. Her own childhood was itself dysfunctional but that is not your fault that this happened to her. None of what happened to you was your fault, none of it. It all lies with her. I am so sorry that no adult in your life (where also was dad?) seemingly did anything to protect you from her.

Do you see your brother these days; what sort of relationship if any does he have with his mother?.

I would also suggest you seek help re your childhood abuse; NAPAC are good and could help you, link below:-

napac.org.uk/

Turning to drink to deal with the pain will not work and besides which alcohol is a depressant. Its a false friend.

You really do need to talk to a therapist and preferably one who has vast experience of dealing with abuse in childhood. Please consider contacting NAPAC.

Also read the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these pages.