Can we have a thread for those of us who are daughters with difficult mothers?

[PinkyofPie]

Been thinking about starting this thread for a while.

My mother is a difficult and sometimes toxic woman and we have a strained relationship.

I think IRL there's not enough people around like me, all my friends are best friends with their mums. My mum recently moved back to the area and all I get is "oh I bet you're so happy". Actually, no, her being closer is awful if I'm honest.

There's so much to my relationship with her, too much for an OP.

A huge bone of contention is that she knows about a family member sexually harassing me quite badly through my teens (I've posted details in another name). I'm talking flashing, suggestive language and grabbing me now and again when no one was looking. I have told her the details. This person is still very much in her life, she bigs him up to anyone who listens and can't understand why I despise him and won't be near him. She minimised his behaviour massively and We Don't Talk About It.

She also made comments along the lines of "well did you lead him on?" yes mum, I was 16 and he was 55, I was gagging for it with a relative.

being in her presence is very tiring. She has no friends so I feel pressured to see her now she's back near me. I met her today, and I am drained. I always feel like I've done something wrong, she's in a constant mood. Everything is crap, she hates any food we eat, complains about people nearby and won't look for the good in anything. Where she lived before was so much better apparently. Spending just a few hours round that negativity is exhausting.

The funny thing is she makes out to others like we extremely close. A daughter of her friend - who I had just met that night - once said to me "I'm so jealous about the bond you and your mum have"

Anyway I know MN has lots of people who feel the same so thought I would start by having a place for us long suffering daughters to share, moan, vent and generally get everything out into the open!

[Lottielou7]

I don't think it's fair to call anyone hypocritical for accepting money and trying to be NC.

Money is one of the things our parents do to keep us where they want them. It's much easier said than done to say don't reply on them for money. We all lived in such complex and fucked up situations with our parents that have gone on for years and years. My own parents have done things like pay for my severely disabled dd to get legal help to enable her to have the education she desperately (not ideally, desperately) needs.

So it's very easy to say someone's hypocritical but for some of us our parents instill at a young age that we need them and will never be able to cope alone and then they can financially support us and throw it in our faces.

[Badders123]

I agree Lou
Some rather "black and white" views being aired which aren't helpful
Life isn't black and white, sadly
It's complicated
Don't bash yourself op - what's done is done
Just Don't accept anymore from them
X

[Lottielou7]

I think if we're going to have threads like this and stately homes etc, nobody should be judgmental at all because we all have to cope with enough criticism from our parents already - we need to support each other and realise it's very hard to get out of unhealthy, abusive relationships.

Toxic families are about as easy to understand as Alice In Wonderland IMO.

[Ariandenotgrande]

I totally agree, the money thing is a complicated web and I was led to believe that I was incompetent with money from an early age. I was trained up young to be dependent but I am aware now that extricating myself isn't a bad thing and I'm sure the other posters meant it in a helpful way. Even small steps and readjusting expectations can be a move forwards.

[princessmi12]

Actually it is black and white.
If you going NC with your parent because they treat you badly, you can't expect them helping you financially and somehow justify to yourself that they obliged to help you because they are your parents. Precisely because you don't want them to be in your life, otherwise you are yourself obliged to keep relationship going when they help you. YOU OWE THEM therefore they in control.

[ZippyNeedsFeeding]

Could I ask for some opinions about my situation please? It is financial in part, but that really isn't the core of the problem.

I do feel like I haven't behaved well, but I did the best I could at the time.
Here goes: some years ago my child died at birth. My husband told my parents within an hour. My mother didn't come to the hospital until about 12 hours later, just as I was leaving. They came to the funeral but didn't ask if we needed help with funeral costs, or help to cater for all the visitors/after the funeral. I wasn't expecting much from them, but I got significantly less than I was expecting.

This year, my sister's child died. My parents moved her into their house while he was in hospital and took her to the hospital three times a day, paid all her bills and generally couldn't do enough for her. I offered help, but it was quietly made clear to me that i wasn't needed or wanted. When the child (not actually a child, an adult) died, my parents were there and made a huge fuss about being there for my sister. They paid for the burial plot, the funeral expenses, everything.

My mother and sister decided that for the after funeral "do" they would make some cakes and I would do everything else- all the food, cleaning the hall afterwards, massive fuss all paid for by me. To start with I went along with it, but every time I was asked to do another thing I was having flashbacks to my child's death and how alone I was and how little help I was given. (My sister didn't come to my child's funeral, in fact none of my 4 siblings did). Three days before I told my parents that I couldn't do it and I wouldn't be at the funeral, much less laying it all on at my own expense. It went down much as you'd expect.

Because I thought I might have missed a major point somewhere, I asked my mother why we had been treated so differently. She told me that she didn't come to the hospital because she "Had a business to run". This was more important to her than the death of my child. She actually behaved as if I was bullying her and got a bit hysterical.

My father has refused to even look at me since then. We saw them recently and he made a point of speaking to my husband and children, but turned away from me and walked away.

Am I a massive bitch? I feel like perhaps I am, but honestly at the time I was just trying to survive.

[Champers4Pampers]

Zippy, you're not a massive bitch. You've gone through one of the worst things a mother could go through and my heart goes out to you. Sorry for your loss.
Obviously your sisters child passing has brought up a lot of unresolved issues between you & your parents. I don't think your parents have handle it well at all & can't believe they didn't support you more in your time of need.
How did your sister react when you back out of the funeral arrangements? Do you have a good relationship with her?

[ZippyNeedsFeeding]

We haven't really spoken in years. All communication in my family goes through my mother. My sister used to send snotty messages demanding that my husband fix things, or move furniture or otherwise skivvy for her. Once I insisted that only primary age children pass messages like that and she would have to speak to us herself, she stopped communicating with me at all. After my child died, she sent a very patronising card ( nearly 2 months later) which was typed and not even signed. It went on a bit about how she had never had to bury a child, and sounded much more smug than sympathetic. I'm still working on not thinking about that message now.

I didn't really know her child at all, because he had a history of sudden and unprovoked violence ( mostly due to brain damage I think) so I kept my children away.

I probably am quite bitter, but I think i have reason to be. And I know I wouldn't if just one of them (better yet my mother who is the puppet master) would admit that they have ever done anything wrong.

[SleepyHay]

Zippy, so sorry for the loss of your child. Your sister losing her own must be bringing back some painful memories for you

FWIW I don't think you sound like a bitch at all and your M is being very insensitive trying to make you do so much for the funeral. You mentioned other siblings, what are they doing?

I'm going to make some massive assumptions here based on my own M so apologies if I'm way off the mark. It sounds like your M likes to be the centre of attention and with your loss she never would be. She would never have known your child and all the sympathy would be with you and not her. With your sister, she's right in the centre of it. It will be 'look at me I'm such a good mother, taking care of my grieving child and arranging everything while dealing with my grief from losing my GC'.

Does this sound accurate? If it does, the sad thing is that she's using your sisters loss for her own self need and your sister will never realise it.

Whatever you do in the situation will be wrong, I don't think you can win. Maybe try to distance yourself from them after this and take care of yourself. You've done nothing wrong but other people will always tend to side with the ones who are perceived to be suffering most.

X

[ZippyNeedsFeeding]

That sounds pretty much spot on Sleepy. I'd never thought of it like that.

[SeaEagleFeather]

I'm so sorry for your loss zippy. You've been very deeply let down zippy ... in fact, you've been shit on badly. It might be an idea to look very carefully at the dynamics in your family; your sister is the Golden Child and demanding, you are the Scapegoat, from the sound of it. It sounds like you have a role in your mother's mind that will never be about you, the real zippy. If that's right, I'm afraid you'll never get even a bit of the attention and love that you actually deserve.

Have you considered talking to a (skilled!) therapist? I hope you can talk to your husband too. What does he make of their behaviour?

[Badders123]

Zippy...I'm so sorry for your loss.
I'm the scapegoat too so I get it.
My mother will act horrified if I point out my siblings could do more
"But they have children to look after!"
Er.....are my two boys mirages then? 😡😞
They will not change.
So change the way you react.

[ZippyNeedsFeeding]

Yes, I'm the scapegoat. My parents have a golden child each and accuse each other of favouritism (they are both right there!). My dad's favourite varies, but my mother's is always my youngest sister. I am not and never have been anyone's favourite. I'm actually quite glad about that.

What hurts me is that before my nephew's death, I coped with my parents being crap by telling myself that they just weren't capable of what I wanted from them. It turns out that they are, just not for me. You are absolutely right that I need to change the way I react to them, or better yet avoid them enough that I have no need to react at all.

[Badders123]

I'm 43
It's only since I turned 40 that I've been able to see clearly.
Partially my dad dying and partially ill health myself has made me pretty much zero tolerance for all types of bullshit.
As mum had a heart attack the day dad died I didn't pull away initially I have now.
But I'm getting there.
Slowly.
Takes a while to undo 40 years of conditioning.

[SeaEagleFeather]

zippy thoughts for the future ...... i suspectyour parents' 'love' comes with a high, high price tag for your younger sister too. Mainly freedom of thought. What would happen if she started challenging your mother?

Would she even be capable of it? Controlling parents can mold thoughtprocess of a child so deeply that can only become carbon copies of their parent, and never really develop their own minds.

But it sucks to be the unloved one.

[NoncommittalToSparkleMotion]

Oh zippy. I'm so sorry to read that.

No, you're not a bitch. The way your family operates is just so unhealthy. But then, when they can't function normally in mundane situations, in crises it can hurt tenfold.

[IronNeonClasp]

Hi All,
SnortGrunt and Attila. I have just come back from the worst caravan holiday with my Mother ever.

Attila you told me to feign sickness and I really should have although I have used sickness before in order to avoid these stays.

So we were having a lovely time. Kids really happy. On the Saturday she handed a couple of pics to me. She said "you can cut me out of them if you want"
On the Saturday she was insistent that I stay up and watch a film she had seen. She's been banging on about it for weeks but it was the last thing I wanted to do. I said I was going to bed at half 9 and went to brush my teeth. I could her knocking things and when I opened the door to the lounge she was pacing with a familiar look - the one that scares me. Pure rage and regression into a 5 year old.
So I asked her what was wrong and she flapped, spat "I'll just talk to myself like I always do". I made some bullshit excuse and sat there watching the film, whilst she proceeded to get drunk and rub my neck like I was 5. I was quite 'off' as this is a fake scenario and went to bed around midnight.
She was pretty hungover the next morning and I was tired as we stayed up so late on the Fri which is why I wanted to go to bed early.
We came up with a plan, I sorted kids and supplies and we left to visit a local village on foot.
Now seriously, she hasn't stopped talking the entire time from the moment we arrived to now. Her stories are repetitive, or things we used to laugh at when I was 15 (I'm 40's now). I dismissed a comment - unfair possibly - and then told my DD to be careful as we were on a single track road and cars shoot up it.
She spouted "Oh you're not interested in anything I say" angrily and started to storm off. She erupted into venomous and hurtful comments. Stripping me down. Unfortunately I retaliated. I told her she doesn't shut up so there's no headspace. I told her she pulled a tantrum the night before. We were evil and people were watching. She started to shout at them too. I wasn't bothered about them. This is a scenario I have observed or been the victim of so many times but not of late as normally these incidents are so fresh in my mind but I let down my guard and I'm furious with myself.
Anyway she did her usual vanishing act so I took kids back to caravan as I had the key. I packed up the car and I should have left but I couldn't make a rational decision. Even rang OH but I guess he couldn't take it for me either. Anyway, no sign of her. I unpacked a few bits.
Took kids to pool. Bear in mind the kids witnessed all of this. It started to pour down so got them dry and went to amusements. Then back to the van and I made grub and she snuck in with a couple of bags of shopping. I acted normal
"Hiya - you had a nice time?". Childlike mode with anger. Retaliation.
She starts packing.
"I've already done that but I thought we could sort this out, draw a line under it; stay for the last night". But Mother wasn't done. She wanted to do some more (proper) damage. She told me I am miserable and how she doesn't know how my husband copes with me. She called me bipolar. She called me that as my husband called me that at Christmas (I have been reflecting on our relationship ever since).
She basically told me I was cause for breaking our family up and my Dad knows exactly what I'm like. Oh and she also blackmailed me with some information that I have hidden from my OH. That was a real gem.
So She is really winding me up. Similar treatment at 15. I threatened her she wouldn't see my kids again and no turning up on my door 6 months down the line. (I cut contact when my daughter was a couple of months olds - she ended up phoning my Dad (separated) and she turned up at my door all apologetic.)
She turned everything I had said around and that I was having a tantrum etc. That I had started 'the argument'.
Anyway I ended up having some ridiculous panic attack and sounded possessed shouting "leave me alone" trying to eat the dinner I had made, which makes me realise how unhinged I became. It was relentless and she just would not bloody stop. She kept following me. I didn't want to leave her with my kids or I would have gone for a walk to calm down for a few minutes. She's said a couple of (venomous) things to them today and yesterday that I am not happy about. And all of the above happened in front of them. DD showing signs today of anger. Hopefully I can just cuddle her and chat if she asks me anything (she's 5).
So it was all sorted by about half 7. It seems she gets some kind of fix and bonding from emotional disturbance.
I couldn't wait to get the fuck away from her today. And I seriously have no idea how to go NC as its failed before. Incidentally my brother lives abroad. Very interested to read PP accounts about siblings leaving the country.
She kept mentioning this morning 'how much she talks' dropping gems in.
And now I have driven home - 3 hours. I am completely mentally exhausted. All of my triggers have been disrupted. I have to rebuild myself from scratch. I can't trust who and what she will tell. I can't bring myself to tell her we got home safe. I hate her.

[ToneDeafHamster]

Fucking hell Iron, that sounds really rough. I don't have any advice, but I want you to know, its her, not you. She sounds like a fucking nutcase.

As far as NC is concerned, I don't know, its so hard, isn't it. Our Mothers are supposed to protect us, and they end up being the ones who hurt us the most.

[IronNeonClasp]

Well I'm starting to think. It is me. Just had a blazing row with OH. About silicone of all things... Seriously giving up.

[Birdandsparrow]

Och, Iron it's not you. A lot of that sounds like the kind of thing my mum would do when looking for a drama or fight. I'd often then have a row afterwards with DH as part of the fallout. It's not you.

[Huldra]

Long story, I posted a couple of weeks back now. I was visiting my Mum for a few weeks as she lives in another European country, couple of my siblings would be there too, then my husband flying out for our family holiday.

Anyway after siblings went home I got up one morning and left as i coudnt take her shit anymore. I found other places for me and the kids to stay and we've had a great time and picked up my husband as arranged.

Haven't heard a thing from her, not by email, mobile or text (all free). She did call one of my brothers who wasn't on the visit to her with a tale about how worried she is. She thtold him that I am very depressed and concerned about my and the kids welfare. Apparently she can't call me as a text or call would cost her £20, not true becuase she knows mobile to mobile calls are free between us. Dunno what is wrong with trying an email. Well that's what she told him whilst liking my husbands fb posts! Uhh not that worried then?

Well I know how she wants to play things then.

[ZippyNeedsFeeding]

Ah yes, the "I''m worried about her" attack. My mother has form for this. Almost every time I have refused to do what my mother wants, she contacts my husband and tells him about how concerned she is and how unstable I seem. She then lays on a heap of emotional blackmail and eventually he caves and does whatever it is she wants.

The plus side is that after a particularly nasty bout of emotional blackmail earlier this year, he at least sees what I've been dealing with all my life.

[Mairyhinge]

Is it wrong to be waiting for the day she dies? I guarantee all I will feel is relief. Dad died 2 years ago and I miss him every day, I just wish she would hurry up and go be with him ( which she actually keeps telling me she wants). Then I wouldn't feel the need to be a dutiful daughter., who is failing miserably no matter what I do.

[ZippyNeedsFeeding]

I don't know if it's wrong, but it's normal. I feel like this about both of my parents.

[Cupcakeannie77]

My mum agreed to baby sit my DC her DGC only she got invited out so arranged for someone else to have them unbeknown to me. I found out went nuts and she didn't see the problem. We've not spoken since, that was 18 months ago. It was the last straw for me. I feel happier not having her in my life. It's other people that can't handle it. They say 'but it's your mum' I say so what, you wouldn't stay with a toxic partner so why is it different when it's your mother. I kind of think it's making me a better mother though.