Can we have a thread for those of us who are daughters with difficult mothers?

[PinkyofPie]

Been thinking about starting this thread for a while.

My mother is a difficult and sometimes toxic woman and we have a strained relationship.

I think IRL there's not enough people around like me, all my friends are best friends with their mums. My mum recently moved back to the area and all I get is "oh I bet you're so happy". Actually, no, her being closer is awful if I'm honest.

There's so much to my relationship with her, too much for an OP.

A huge bone of contention is that she knows about a family member sexually harassing me quite badly through my teens (I've posted details in another name). I'm talking flashing, suggestive language and grabbing me now and again when no one was looking. I have told her the details. This person is still very much in her life, she bigs him up to anyone who listens and can't understand why I despise him and won't be near him. She minimised his behaviour massively and We Don't Talk About It.

She also made comments along the lines of "well did you lead him on?" yes mum, I was 16 and he was 55, I was gagging for it with a relative.

being in her presence is very tiring. She has no friends so I feel pressured to see her now she's back near me. I met her today, and I am drained. I always feel like I've done something wrong, she's in a constant mood. Everything is crap, she hates any food we eat, complains about people nearby and won't look for the good in anything. Where she lived before was so much better apparently. Spending just a few hours round that negativity is exhausting.

The funny thing is she makes out to others like we extremely close. A daughter of her friend - who I had just met that night - once said to me "I'm so jealous about the bond you and your mum have"

Anyway I know MN has lots of people who feel the same so thought I would start by having a place for us long suffering daughters to share, moan, vent and generally get everything out into the open!

As awful as this sounds I'm really pleased my mum has no connection with my DD. She shares the granddaughter memes on FB but looks at her like she's some sort of rodent who's made its way into her house. I'm fine with that, as bitter as this sounds I kind want DD to see what she is like, I think it would hurt me if she adored her.

Isn't that awfully selfish?

The denial, the rewriting of history – it’s quite narcissistic thinking – as though no-one else could possibly have a different view on what actually happened, even if they were there at the time.

My mother never hit my older brother - she got our father to do that. The age-old “wait till your father gets home”.

She never hit me (nor got my father to do her dirty work). She crowed that she never need to do that, because she could keep me in line just with words.

It's weird.
Mum always make such excuses for my sister...
She works
(So do I)
Her Dh works away
(So does mine)
She has 2 children to look after
(So do I)
She actually said that to me last year after I dared criticise my sister for being selfish
"Well she has her boys to consider"
Erm......🤔
I'm desparately trying to find things to do each day so I'm not available...
How bloody sad is that?

Pinky

These people really do have no friends and for good reason as well. They either do not want them (my MIL actively plays the martyr as well as hating other people) or use people simply to their own ends. Such people are very superficial and have no depth. Toxic people never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions; its always someone else's fault.

You have done your DD a real service by not having her grandmother in her life. She was not a good parent to you, why would she ever be a decent sort of grandparent to your child. These disordered of thinking people do not change.

Absolutely Pinky my mother would tell me to "keep taking the tablets" if she read this (I take antidepressants which to her explains my "madness" and "delusions") The saddest thing is her own mother was exactly the same and made her life a misery. Then she died, history was rewritten and the poisonous old junkie is now a saint.

I'm not perfect by any stretch but I make a massive point of apologising to my lovely kids when I've been a dick because my mother NEVER apologised for anything.

The hitting though. I mostly escaped that bar a few hefty smacks around the face (the last time she did this I was 28 and half a foot taller than her and I was still to afraid to retaliate!). I would rather chop off my hands with a rusty saw than lay a finger on one of my kids. And I would cut out my tongue before I would make my beautiful, happy, feisty daughter feel ugly and worthless. I really don't get it

PS sorry for rambling, I can't talk to many people IRL about this, I'm finding this incredibly cathartic

Do any of you have any tools for going low contact?
I've got to.
For my own sanity.
Do I lie? Do i invent more work hours?
Do I just back off and only go and see her 3 X a week?
I'm also her POA and I really don't want to be anymore...how do I get around that?

Do any of you have any tools for going low contact?
Don't expect them to agree
Don't expect them to understand
Don't argue over why, you don't have to make them get it, if you need to go LC they probably never would get it anyway
It does not have to be a mutual decision
Don't expect them to not try to behave worse when you go LC, they can behave how they like, you can't control that, but you can control whether or not you're going to engage with it

Do I lie? Do i invent more work hours?

no, You say "that's not going to work for me, I can see you next thursday"
they go "but but but………guilt trip guilt trip.. threat"
you say "it's not going to work for me, Do you want me to come next Thursday or not, that is the only day that will work for me"
(you don't say you physically CAN'T go other days, just that it won't work for you)
and then….
..if they call your bluff and say "well if you can't come tomorrow don't come at all"
say "that's your choice, if you change your mind about next thursday, let me know, but since you've said no I might make other arrangements. If you want me to keep it free let me know sooner rather than later"

Kalopsia - it is cathartic to actually talk about it; something I’ve never done in real life, even when I was going through counselling. It’s as though we’ve been trained into silence. But now we’re finding our voices.

As for rambling: This is one of my mother’s little anecdotes that dates back to the war years. (I was born a few years after the war ended.) Mother joined the ATS; father was conscripted into the Army; Uncle Ken was conscripted into the RAF. According to mother, Uncle Ken didn’t deserve to wear the RAF cap badge – because he wasn’t a real RAF person. He wasn’t a pilot, “merely” ground/maintenance crew. He was in his late teens and got posted to an airfield on the south-east coast. He experienced Nazi bombing raids, and repaired shot-up aircraft. And knew how many aircraft and crew didn’t make it back. But, he wasn’t a proper RAF because he never flew. She sneered when relating how he’d get drunk on the rare occasions he got leave to come home. No compassion whatsoever for what the poor bugger had gone through.

Do you know what this thread had made me realise that its not me. For years I thought is it me..am I the bad one?? And when I had spoken to other people they were always in disbelief that a mother would behave this way..I got the feeling they believed it must have been me and I did question it as no one else had such an awful mother or so I thought. But after reading this ive realised it wasn't me..her behaviour wasn't normal and it isn't just my mother there are others.
I was beaten..my head hit of cupboards in the kitchen. I was put down constantly, I had little to no confidence she was very controlling and I had no life. I did rebel badly because of the lack of freedom I had in my teenage years. Now much more relaxed with mine and not much from mine in the way of rebelling. I'm firm but fair I think. My 17yo ds1 doesn't get drunk, no drugs, has a steady gf and is respectful. I can't ask for better than that. And all my kids know I'm proud of them because I tell them so. My mother never once told me she was proud or that she loved me..only time she did was when she was emotionally blackmailing me. In fact the best thing she did for me was to throw me out shortly before I was 18..because I was in a relationship with someone she had decided she didn't like..if she decided she didn't like you then that was it. Once I was away from her my life was my own. It was hard for a bit money wise but my bf was working and he supported me through my last few months of college. We were together 14years we had 4 kids together. I tried when I had my firstborn to contact her so she could have a relationship with her first grandchild but she through it back in my face and told me she wished he died of cot death..I'm not joking that's what she said. So after that I decided any respect I ever had was gone and never spoke or had anything to do with her again. Unfortunately due to this, this meant I couldn't see my father or my 6 siblings which was hard for me as Xmas was very busy with all my siblings..I wanted to take presents down for my siblings at Xmas and she wouldn't even let me do that. I still can not get my head around how a mother could behave like that as a mother myself now I couldn't bare not seeing my kids or grandkids and having no relationship with them. I don't think I will ever forgive her and I know it sounds terrible but I can't wait for her to die because the family will be able to move on.

Badders - whenever I read a post like yours, I think: what would happen if the put-upon person broke a leg and couldn’t physically get to the demanding individual. Chances are that either the demanding person would find that they can sort themselves out, or that other family members would have to step up to the mark.

Obviously, I’m not suggesting that you break a leg, but maybe think about how things would work out if you had a cast-iron reason for not visiting every day. Would the sky fall in? Would she, you know, actually die?

Once you’ve been trapped into that kind of situation, it’s incredibly difficult to find a way out. Especially when no-one else seems to give a damn about the effect on you.

But, you’re almost there. You know that you’ve got to start putting yourself first, otherwise your health is at risk.

You could google for getting rid of the PoA, or you might be better posting about that in the Legal section here. There’s a lot of legal Mumsnetters who know about PoA and also understand the complexities and pressures of demanding families.

Thank you all
I will have a chat to dh about it tomorrow too

Do any of you have any tools for going low contact?

Emigrate. That's what I did. And now I've gone NC she can't turn up on the doorstep like she used to.

Badders You don't HAVE to do or say anything. It's the whole Fear Obligation Guilt thing. It's really hard I know but you can just walk away at any point. With mine I knew it was a matter of time until she blew, we had 7 months NC until forced together at a family party. I relented but maintained VERY firm boundaries. She managed a year (which was at times really lovely, I got her to leave Father and the bloody dog and come out with me and DD, we did actual mother/daughter stuff WAY outside her comfort zone) but eventually she went crackers and starting screaming abuse when I (reasonably) refused to jump to her whistle. I knew it was coming and had made it very clear I would not stick around. Hilariously she went mental on Facebook of all places so EVERYONE in the family saw it. Bad move.

Anyway, rambling again sorry! I suppose I am saying to wait for the nasty to come out and stand up for yourself. Say no. Mean it. Walk away. It's really hard. Im resigned to the fact that I won't be at their funerals (they are barely 60 but are like old people). Im resigned to the fact that they will never change/relent/regret/apologise so I'm done

Kalopsia please do ramble away! It's exactly why i started the thread so those of us could have a 'safe space' for a rant.

I feel like I've just blurted out random anecdotes on here, but I can't talk to anyone IRL except DH, who is wonderfully supportive, but after 8 years of me talking about it I think the man could do with a break! He's started to say "maybe the time has come to do something about it" and I think he's right.

I'm also on the lookout for LC tips. Mum has a shockingly good knack of guilt tripping me into submission to do whatever she wants whenever she wants. I've tried to distance myself but now she lives just 2 miles away it's rather hard. She's started to roll out the "I moved back for you" card. I never asked her to, she needed somewhere to go and decided she'd land back near me.

I find any amount of time with her so depressing and draining. I don't recall the last time I enjoyed her company. Is it awful to say I'm almost looking for a reason to go NC? It would be like a weight off my shoulders

Pinky I just reread your op and wow! You absolutely need no further reason to go NC, the abuse thing is unforgivable. I'm actually fuming on your behalf and would have no qualms whatsoever in telling her no bloody more. I was cowed, insecure, in DESPERATE need of validation/love/respect but when I admitted to myself that it would never come I found it easy to walk away. I'm imagining my daughter coming to me and telling me what you told your mother. I would break his bloody legs (neck) to protect her. She has let you down so badly and deserves nothing from you. I'm so sorry. For all of us really

Oh bloody hell! My oldest son is asking if he can phone his grandparents and go and see them. He has a "thing" about giving people second chances and trying to see their point of view. He knows the bare bones of the reasons why I don't see them and he knows that despite that, I have told them they can come and see the children any time they want to. they live three miles away and haven't bothered in months.
They will hurt him in the same ways they hurt me and there isn't much I can do to stop it, is there? He's 14.

Zippy all you can do is be there if and when he needs you.
It's really hard when there are children involved..it was easier before I had them because it only affected me and you just instinctively want to protect your children from any harm
My son is 17 and recently contacted my mother to ask her why she wished him dead at birth..she of course denied it calling me a liar and proceeded to slag his father off..my son replied with my mum would never lie to me about this and knew straight away he wanted no contact with her but it's normal for them to want to find out for themselves. He will be fine.

I think LC fails when you expect the other person to agree, understand or not kick off a bit about it.

It fails if you get tied up in knots explaining yourself, they'll only use that against you.

It also fails if you don't actually go for it, making excuses isn't going LC

Pinky...exactly.
I do not want to spend time with her
She hasn't text me today because I pointed out that she had other gc aside from my brothers dd
It didn't go well
BUT
I havent text her either
And won't do so tomorrow
We will see

Is there any experience of the mother's circle telling the daughter of their fears that the mother has dementia? And urging her to (somehow) force the mother to get tested for it? I reckon they are possibly all toxic...

Oh Pinky, you made me realise in your most recent post another thing...I actually cannot remember the last time I enjoyed spending time with mum. I do my best to limit visits to 10 minutes and any longer I'm feeling trapped, angry and then depressed, it's like a weight is pushing me down by the shoulders. By the time I leave her house I feel like a different person. How the fuck can someone do that ?! Or more importantly I won't let her do that again. I am going low contact, but have shared more details of her past behaviour with my family in last few days as this thread has made me see I've, like many women, put up with this alone. I felt like I was being unfaithful talking about her. My family and friends might think she was a bit caustic at times but they have no idea how awful she has been to me. Anyway, baby steps...I'm seeing it like that and hoping that by lowering contact she will find another victim. I am determined not to play her game anymore.
All's good at the minute, she's away for a week, bliss.

Zippy,

re your comment:-

"Oh bloody hell! My oldest son is asking if he can phone his grandparents and go and see them. He has a "thing" about giving people second chances and trying to see their point of view. He knows the bare bones of the reasons why I don't see them and he knows that despite that, I have told them they can come and see the children any time they want to. they live three miles away and haven't bothered in months".

Give your son age appropriate truth about your family of origin and try not to send him further mixed messages re your family of origin (i.e. he knows why you do not see them but they can come and see your children anytime they want to). Your own boundaries here re your parents are still way too low and need further raising. He also needs to know more than the bare bones; he may well think this is just a simple disagreement or misunderstanding you and they have had.

Also Zippy, if they were not good parents to you why would you want them at all around your children, your most precious resource.

Your parents have actually done you a huge service by not contacting them. People like your parents only want their own way, they also never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions.