Can we have a thread for those of us who are daughters with difficult mothers?

[PinkyofPie]

Been thinking about starting this thread for a while.

My mother is a difficult and sometimes toxic woman and we have a strained relationship.

I think IRL there's not enough people around like me, all my friends are best friends with their mums. My mum recently moved back to the area and all I get is "oh I bet you're so happy". Actually, no, her being closer is awful if I'm honest.

There's so much to my relationship with her, too much for an OP.

A huge bone of contention is that she knows about a family member sexually harassing me quite badly through my teens (I've posted details in another name). I'm talking flashing, suggestive language and grabbing me now and again when no one was looking. I have told her the details. This person is still very much in her life, she bigs him up to anyone who listens and can't understand why I despise him and won't be near him. She minimised his behaviour massively and We Don't Talk About It.

She also made comments along the lines of "well did you lead him on?" yes mum, I was 16 and he was 55, I was gagging for it with a relative.

being in her presence is very tiring. She has no friends so I feel pressured to see her now she's back near me. I met her today, and I am drained. I always feel like I've done something wrong, she's in a constant mood. Everything is crap, she hates any food we eat, complains about people nearby and won't look for the good in anything. Where she lived before was so much better apparently. Spending just a few hours round that negativity is exhausting.

The funny thing is she makes out to others like we extremely close. A daughter of her friend - who I had just met that night - once said to me "I'm so jealous about the bond you and your mum have"

Anyway I know MN has lots of people who feel the same so thought I would start by having a place for us long suffering daughters to share, moan, vent and generally get everything out into the open!

I let DD make the Mother's Day cards for my mother. I can never find ones that aren't complete BS to send to her. (Ie, you're the best ever, you're my best friend and rock, etc)

My mother tells me I think too much about parenting and am not "a natural." She was 18 when she had me because she forgot her pill and smoked all through pregnancy, slept through me crying as a baby to the point that neighbours in the terrace offered to help.

But I planned for a baby, read stuff... And I'm not a natural.

Zanasher..totally exactly what I did. My mother taught me how not to parent which made me a much better mother than her. My children know they are loved and I've not done too bad a job I'm pretty close to mine and we talk about everything something I could never do with my own mother. My eldest is 17 my youngest 10. You will find you will be much better because you don't want to inflict your childhood on your own kids. I know my childhood was very bad for me..and I wanted better for my kids. I've even blanked out a lot of my childhood as there are large chunks that I can't even remember.

bod that sounds lovely

I'm about to give birth to a girl, reading everyone else's stories of parenting after a crap mother makes me feel so much better for everyone

You know, we all deserve some credit for being far better mothers than we were shown by example

I bet we all have moments where we fall down a bit, snap at something we shouldn't and then spend hours feeling like we've reverted to behaving like our mothers and worry that the 99.9% of good, well-meant parenting is some sort of illusion that we've no hope of maintaining...I've realised that thought plagued my earlier years as a parent.

I've now got my children well past the ages we were when my mother buggered off finally and in a strange way I've relaxed. I wonder if I always felt I might leave too, not be able to hack it somehow. Well, I'm fine. Better than fine. Shrugged off that dark thought for once and for all.

My mother isn't here any more. But so much of what's written by pps resonates with me. Much of my childhood remains blanks. I just can't remember it at all because I was so miserable. Whenever I made friends, she'd somehow sabotage it. She would follow me around the house (literally) complaining at me until she made me cry; she would always compare me unfavourably with others (friends, family, everyone); she regularly blew up about the slightest thing, even when it didn't concern her, for example when I bought something with my own money as a teen (Saturday job) she screamed at me until I took it back because she didn't think the colour suited me; she would tell others how obnoxious (and all the imaginary or exaggerated things I had done) I was until I had no one on my side at all. I was therefore a really lonely child and teenager with zero confidence. It took me decades to build that up to the extent I can function as an adult and I had my children very late for fear I'd be like her. I'm pretty sure I'm not and my children seem pretty secure and happy. One of the hardest things was that to others she was the most charming, funny, charismatic people ever. It made me feel even more that it was my fault that our relationship was so bad. I miss every day that I never had a loving mother. It's very hard to overcome that. Other flaws in a parent you might get over but feeling that your parent, the person that is supposed to love you unconditionally, doesn't value you at all, and actively sets out to demolish you as a person because you somehow don't measure up, is very hard. Knowing that my mother was a classic narc, helps a lot but never eradicates the loneliness of not having ever had a mother's love. The fact that society tells you that you're supposed to adore your mother no matter what makes it even harder. No one who has had a loving mother can possibly understand, they just wouldn't get it, so it makes it really difficult because you feel like a horrible person for not feeling like they do.

for everyone on this thread.

My mother is horrible. Overbearing. Critical. I remember as far back as being twelve and bringing a few new secondary school friends to my party and her saying I embarrassed her because she told everyone I had no friends :(

She didn't want me to go to uni. Said she wouldnt help me I was going to become a snob. On my graduation she pulled a big drama over having a sore back. 15 years later same thing at my hen except she needed a&e. Then miraculously recover. Mil whispered to me 'there's nothing wrong with that women'.

She never says anything nice or helps in any way. When I go to visit (which she expects twice a week) she mocks the way I speak, says my hair is a mess.

Yet she cuddles and kisses my toddler DC - she never showed me affection only anger and contempt.

I was talking to an old school friend in the early hours of this morning (still nursing that "sodding cat"... who is getting there, slowly, much to my DS' joy - and my relief) who reminded me of my 14th birthday.

My mother decided that to celebrate my 14th birthday, there would be a dinner party (just what every girl wants for their 14th, right?!), and I would be allowed one pre-approved guest. Who was the friend I was talking to last night. My Gran and her partner were there, as were both of my parents. My DB1 was sent out for the afternoon/evening as he was "an embarrassment" (he was 28 and staying with us for a couple of days to celebrate my birthday with me, but because his girlfriend - who was lovely - was with him, and they weren't married, he was "an embarrassment"). There was a roast dinner... which would have been fine, if that were my favourite meal. It wasn't. It never has been. How ungrateful of me, though, to point out that I'd rather have had burger and chips... she'd slaved over the oven... the over-boiled veggies... (actually, she hadn't: she'd co-erced my enabling father into doing it all).

My mother remembers the afternoon/evening as she'd had a row with my Gran, so she got drunk. My Gran, however, didn't arrive until just before the dinner (she and her partner hadn't even known they were expected to attend this absolutely every 14 year old's dream of a dinner party... until they were in the house!). I doubt there was a row between her and my mother prior to their arrival. I've always suspected it was just an excuse.

Sitting round the dining room table, next to my friend (who, bless her, took everything in her stride), my mother decides that we're both too young and messy to serve ourselves. She had to do it for us. And she decided that my friend needed gravy over her meal... which she then attempted to serve with a strainer (those metal serving spoons with holes in them to drain the water from the veggies as you get them out of the pan...?). I remember looking across the table at my Gran and seeing her look of dismayed horror, and thinking to myself "yep, this is my life...".

Fortunately, my friend didn't tell anyone (or if she did, no one at school ever teased me about it), and we're obviously still friends today, but it could have been so different. For all my mother knew, her behaviour could have caused me to be further bullied at the school she'd insisted on sending me to. And, almost 30 years later, I can sort of laugh about it now. But... what sort of a mother does that?!

I don't remember anything else about that dinner party - but I do remember that my Gran, her partner, DB1 and his girlfriend took me out for pizza the next evening and we had a lot of fun.

But even now, she has no clue as to what I can and won't eat. I had severe eating disorders (which I'm still in recovery from - I have huge issues with food) from the time I was a toddler, and I cannot abide certain textures in my mouth... but she'll serve me soggy roast potatoes, or toast with bean juice all over it. And she'll show her true thoughts (that mother knows better than the child) by asking me if my DS "will eat (insert random food item)?", when he's standing right next to me and she could ask him, instead. It drives me nuts.

As for Mothers Day/Christmas/birthdays... my children and I're expected to spend them all with her. Mothers Day is completely about her, and what she wants to do (she sulks if my children don't buy her gifts/cards, but I don't remember ever sending my grandmothers Mothers Day cards!), Christmas is celebrated despite the fact that we're Jewish because it's "the done thing" where she and my father live (and I don't mind, because my children have always loved the festivities surrounding it) and birthdays... well, they're always spent being dragged around National Trust houses. Which is every 4 year old boys dream birthday... apparently.

I've already told my children that if/when they have families of their own, I don't want to see them for every occasion. I'll be quite happy with just a 'phone call to say "Happy (whatever)". But in reality, I can see my mother, if she's still going, sulking and co-ercing them into dragging their families into her warped idea of fun. Christmas Day, for example, is always spent watching nature documentaries. In silence. Whilst she gorges on chocolate and shouts over the programme.

Such fun...

Thank you for this thread.

My relationship with my mother became considerably worse after my divorce because I just didn't have the time or energy to pander to her anymore.
Eventually I went NC for a while which was bliss
We resumed contact last year and it's been difficult, and it would seem we are NC again following an argument where she said the following:
Why don't you love me?
There's something wrong with you, you only love your children
You look like a hooker in that picture
You'll be sorry when I'm dead

I had lunch with my fake gran this week who said my mother has declared she's cutting me off and having nothing more to do with me

I'm so glad others on here have said they've been relieved after their mothers death, I feel so guilty for that but I honestly believe life will be easier when she's no longer here

She's vile, toxic, narcissistic, selfish

I'm in! And I have a question for you too...

My DM keeps telling me that she never hit us when we were kids and that she only had to do it once and it wasn't even that hard.

This is utter BS.

Just as one example of reality, one time she picked me up by my shirt collar, probably off her head on whisky and after some decent emotional abuse, slapped me around the face and I was terrified she was going to throw me down the stairs.

I want to let her know that it isn't ok to keep saying this without opening the whole can of drama worms. Any suggestions?

DH thinks I should just tell her that's not how I remember it, but I think that leaves too much hanging in the air for a potential discussion, which I really can't be arsed with.

I have tried to just leave it alone but she keeps saying it over and over - she loves rewriting history so she is never the bad guy... She is always the person who was forced into a corner and had to do something shitty, or didn't do the shitty thing, someone else made it up etc.

Any ideas? Or is this just a 'suck it up' situation?

Any time I tried to raise my mother hitting me she had a selective memory. I don't know if it was because she had been drunk and genuinely didn't remember anything or she minimised it. I tried many times with examples of what I remembered and was accused of having an over active imagination. It was like hitting my head off a brick wall. This was one of the many reasons I went NC with her. It wasn't something I could suck up I'm afraid.

Fourfifths

Toxic parents rewrite history to suit their own ends. They also do not apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions. Your DH needs to realise also that the whole rulebook governing familial relations goes completely out the window when it comes to dysfunctional families, it is no point at all in having discussions with them.

From "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward:-

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

I would keep your own self and any children you have well away from your mother in any case. All you can do with such disordered of thinking people like you describe is to give them a wide berth. You would not have tolerated any crap like this from a friend, family are no different and they are not binding.

Saying I remember it differently is a win her book I've found. I was never beaten (thanks to my wonderful dad who was always there once he heard at smack) but certainly had a few black eyes and split lips. My cousin picked me up one day with the clear out line of mums massive diamond ring on my cheek. She (my cousin) burst into tears and convinced me that in face of that I should hit back. I did, once. I am significantly bigger and heavier than mum. She called the police and reported it as domestic abuse. While she never pressed charges, I'm pretty sure there are records.

She describes the whole period from me age 18-21 as being in an abusive relationship on the back on that one incident. So if she's anythung like that don't try and make her admit it, she won't and you'll feel worse. Not very satisfying but better for your mental health.

My kids have never met my parents. My mother is so controlling that she controls everything my father does sees or hears. Because she has no contact no one else should or she cuts them off too. I'm good though I've succeeded without her in my life. I have a fab man, 4 great kids, 2 of which are daughters and we are very close and can talk openly something I struggled with and could not do with my mother for fear of her reaction. I have a nice home..I've worked very hard. I'm 39 my mother is 58 so should be enjoying her grandkids as she is still fairly young. I'm proud of the parent I am and feel I have done a lot better than her. I'm happier without her.

I’m in my mid-60s. I went NC with my mother decades ago, long before she died. I can’t really explain why I did that – just a feeling that the relationship had never been in my best interests. We’d been NC for a number of years when she phoned to tell me that my father had died. But when it came to his funeral, I just couldn’t bring myself to go: I got a mental image of her playing the grieving widow (despite her frequently slagging off my father) and had such a visceral reaction to that. The fakery, the not-very-good acting, the martyr, the look-at-ME, etc.

It’s only since I joined Mumsnet and started reading, especially the Stately Homes threads, that I’ve started putting some of the pieces together. I think I’m beginning to understand myself a bit better – in the sense of getting to know the real me, rather than her negative version.
She was definitely of the “mother knows best” variety; to the extent that she boldly said that it was bad parenting to ever admit to being wrong and to never say ‘sorry’ to children because that would undermine a child’s confidence in their mother. She seemed to have no comprehension that even a young child had a mind of their own.

I've been totally NC with my parents for 6 months. I have had runs of NC in the past but this is it for good as far as I'm concerned.

Personally I found that it was being mother to a daughter that made me see how toxic and unnatural my relationship with them has been. They are awful, critical, angry people and no matter how obedient and well behaved I was it was never good enough. My brother was a little shit (drugs, fighting, arrests etc) but was totally the golden child. It was 3 against 1 in my childhood and I am so sad when I think about the poor young me thinking it was all my fault. They destroyed my self esteem.

I parent my children by acting like the mother I wish I had. My girl is 18 and off to uni soon and we are so close and affectionate. I have two younger teen boys and they are all brilliant, they literally don't fight, they are kind, respectful and supportive of each other and I am beyond proud of them all (and myself).

It was a thread like this on MSE which first made me realise that I wasn't alone and that my shitty parents aren't special, they are treading a well worn cliched path of alcoholism and narcissism and are not worth a tear. I hope this thread can help somebody else who is feeling isolated.

The best day of my life was the day I realised I could say no. Could refuse to engage. Could dare to raise my voice and tell them to fuck the fuck off! They were apoplectic and I was free

I forgot to add...you are all amazing and brave for posting your stories. Thank you all so much

Well my no contact didn't last long, just 2 months. She rang me earlier and I exploded and then hung up. Years and years of pent up anger. I'm still shaking. I'll be getting a caller display phone tomorrow so I'm not caught off guard again.

I think I'm more angry at myself than anything else. I've let myself down. I should have handled it better. I should have hung up without a word the minute I knew who it was. Arrrrgh.

My mother has always insisted that she never hit us (she always said she'd have felt too guilty, in a "Silly me, what am I like?" sort of tone). which is strange, because I clearly remember her beating the crap out of me several times, and being nipped and slapped regularly.
When I was 18 months old(!) apparently I relapsed with my potty training and started wetting myself. She would beat me for that, and humiliate me in front of other adults. She insisted i was abnormal and made me have kidney x-rays (with a really painful catheter) when I was about 4, then see a series of psychologists. What was actually happening was that I would wet myself, she would beat me then that would make me afraid and guess what? Kids who are afraid can wet themselves!If I went to the toilet there was something wrong with how often I went, how much time it took, how much urine i passed, there was always something. So on the cycle went. I was doing it to embarrass her, apparently. The cycle continued well into my teens, it was awful and I spent most of my later childhood genuinely wanting to die. Obviously I smelled horrible and when children threw stones at me or kicked me she told me it was my own fault for stinking.
There is much more but I've never told anyone else this much before and I still feel ashamed. Once I thought that we could talk about it and I could at least come to understand her reasoning. That was a mistake and she got hysterical about how I was bullying her and just being spiteful and anyway everything in the entire history of the known universe ever has all been MY FAULT.
She told me regularly as I was growing up that my sister's learning difficulties and heart defect were my fault, because I "gave her" chickenpox when she was pregnant. I was 10 months old. The most frightening thing about it was that she didn't see that saying something like that to a child (over and over) would be in any way damaging. She would also make me listen to details of her sex life (she didn't have many friends and decided that I would have to listen to her instead). I think I preferred the accusations, frankly.

I've read toxic parents and it is helpful.
I literally have to psych myself up to see mum. I will say to Dh "right I'll go for half an hour then it's done"
How fucked up is that?
She will not leave the house if my brother has said he "might drop in" - cue her missing out on many outings with me/my DC.
She truly does believe the lies she tells...or she does the whole "I did my best" routine.
I wish I worked longer hours.
I have even considered lying and saying I work more hours than I do :(
I would get caught out though....easier to try and cut visits down I think.

Ah yes
The hitting.
She denies to ever happened. I vividly remember being called into my head of years office and being asked about the bruises :(
I lied. Obv. And this was the 80s so nothing was followed up...
I always knew when she felt she had overdone it because I came home to an envelope on my bed with £10 in.

Now I think of it, my mother has only ever expressed love when she was hitting me. It'd be "I'm only hitting you because I love you". Once I had a huge bruise on my leg from being hit with a slipper over and over again. My teacher asked about it and I told her I'd been hit. This was in the 70's though, so she asked me why and when I told her she just said it served me right.

ToxicLadybird - please don’t feel that you’ve let yourself down.

I say: Well done for “exploding” and getting out some of that pent-up anger – in the direction it should go in. Your reaction was completely understandable.

But, yes, getting a caller display phone is a good idea.

The sad thing is, that if all our mums read this thread they'd be so affronted and offended that we dare see them like that and no doubt we'd be the problem. They would never say "actually in going to have a think about how my actions have impacted my child". My mum has never ever been at fault for anything. It's always other people, not her (yet she has no friends)

I went through a phase of taking mild tranquillisers before seeing either parent. They weren't even all that bad. Just rather detached. I find them both incredibly hard to talk to.