support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh

[besshope]

Step this way...
May I start of with a great big ROAR of frustration at having spent many years having to co-parent with someone who (after he left me for OW) has gone out of his way to make my life as difficult as possible. I know there are many of us, so here's a space to share frustrations, tips and experiences.

remember Hi there, I totally sympathise, I was in the same position a few months ago. I am now a bit further down the line, and can look back and recognise my ex doing the same things. Yes, it is all about control. He can't bear the idea that i prefer to be without him, or that i have rights, needs and opinions of my own. Your situation sounds very similar.
Don't let him tell you what to think or do. Don't let him dictate when you do things or you run the risk of him drawing you back in and it never happening, or happening in a way that damages you. You have as much right to have a view about how to present this to the kids (and probably a clearer and more considerate view). We went through him trying to tell me we should present a united front - what that actually meant was doing things his way or he'd throw a wobbly and distress the kids. Emotional blackmail pure and simple. And massively self centred and entitled. He has no real concept of or concern for what is best for the kids, it's all about him.
Don't ask permission, just get on and do as you think is right and best for you. Don't ask for his opinion, just tell him (I know this is horribly difficult) or he will argue argue argue. Try and keep things as unemotional, factual and brief as possible. And try and put space between you while you do this or you'll forget that only you are living your life, and it is YOUR life, not his. Easier said than done....! Good luck. Sorry if that was a bit of a long-winded rant....

Sorry, should have out some paragraph breaks in that it looks impossible to read...

Has anyone felt the rage of other people not getting it and having a "you all need to grow up and think of the kids attitude" because so many people think it takes two. They're wrong.

Yes, yes, yes! Not so much friends/family/acquaintances, but certainly judges and social workers (although as I mentioned previously, as time has gone on, this has been less of an issue). I've sat in courtrooms while we've both been lectured about our failure to agree and how much it's damaging our child, when I've made every effort to be fair and reasonable and anything less than giving exH every single thing he wants is rejected out of hand. And the things he demands are just not things I could agree to, eg. me not seeing dd for several years until he decrees that I can see her again. I've always been the residential parent, btw.

My ex tried something similar biblio said he had to have custody of DD and I would see her occasionally as he was getting a 'secret service job that could only protect DD if he had custody' (he has delusional disorder too).

Narc exes always have to be in control. When they can't control us directly they try to control us through our children by denying permission for things, insisting on phone calls at inconvenient times etc. I'm going for sole custody as soon as our visitation case is finished. I really think it's impossible to co-parent with Narcs.

Yikes, the secret service delusion is actually pretty scary, Natsku. He doesn't sound like a well man.

I think we've got to the stage where my ex isn't all that interested in me - I don't think he's trying to control me as such, I just think I'm standing in the way of he sees as unlimited narcissistic supply from dd, so he wants me out of the way. And when dd can't give him unlimited narcissistic supply (because she's at the age when children move on from idealising their parents), that's my fault too.

I'm morbidly curious about what would happen if we got all these men in the same room together. Would they see through each other or be taken in? Would the universe implode?

That would be interesting!

It was a scary delusion, he still thinks it was true.

Hi Remember

The first time of telling your ex that this (something) IS GOING to happen is the hardest, but it does get easier to do it. You have to also learn to ignore the crap in the emails /texts you get and only respond to the important issues. Eg I had a ranting email from my ex the other day regarding money but it was me that was being unreasonable when I had calmly pointed out one or two things to him. The rant I got was obviously all about him and how hard he works to provide for the kids and all sorts of crap but my reply was only about the money issue not anything else. I've replied so whole emails before and it's just ended up with more crap in response. Just keep it short, sweet and to the point - the rants will always follow in response but you'll learn eventually to laugh at the patheticness of it all x

Bibliomania - scary thought but could be quite therapeutic for a lot of us if we managed to lock them in and throw away the key?!

Hah that'd be great!

Bibliomania - I suspect my H of the same. My DD is bearing the brunt at the moment. he says he is worried about how she will take the separation and that she is going through some hard times right now being a teenager n all.

I am sure she will be pleased to not have to deal with him.

I made the mistake of saying that i didn't think she would have that much of a problem with not seeing him all the time and he went apoplectic. How can i possibly say what she is thinking? etc. I dunno - maybe because she does everything she can to avoid him right now?

This is why I am leaving - because it is clear to me she is starting to become the scapegoat for him. But she cleverly get it and gets him. She isn't falling for it one bit. So proud of her. But you can't survive that type of dynamic forever no matter how strong you are. That's why i need to protect her.

I have also tried to explain to him that his behaviour over the last 18 years is the reason I am going. He keeps saying yes, but you allowed it to happen "we were a perfect fit"...apparantly. He cannot admit to his behaviour and take full responsibility for it.

I honestly feel that all I did was trust him to look after me when i felt vulnerable. I point out that I am the one who has been left damaged by his actions and he tells me I chose to respond to him in that way. he says I should have stood up to him and sorted myself out. he just doesn't get it and never will.

Oh dear - need this over with asap.

Please can I join?
Just wanted to say how much I admire you all, as most of you have been able to leave your Narcisistic Hs!
I've been married to mine for over 25 years and it wasn't until 4 years ago I realised what had been going on all these years- dramatics, blaming, contradicting, giving me nuggets of his own brilliance and talking about himself ALL the bloody time.
Still married, just don't have the courage to leave.
DS1 now VERY sadly says he hates women- can't dwell on this as I'm so upset and down about it. Other DCs can't understand it all! They are all over 20 now and would still hate it if we split!!
Really want the courage to leave but plain and simple haven't got it.
Both parents are dying and all H wants is to go on another holiday as it's all about him. Really don't want to leave my lovely parents, but there's shouting and swearing etc to have to cope with if I don't do as I'm told.
Also work with him all day every day. It's a nightmare.

Just checking back in to say hi to everyone and send my support and good wishes. There are so many now. Sorry for all in this situation but also it's amazing for us to be able to reach out to one another and at least know others care and understand.
rennie your sadness really comes across and you sound ground down by years and years of stress. Maybe it's time now to put yourself first for once? It really sounds like you need some support. Have you got a thread or could you start one to get plenty of support on MN?

remember -he was an arse for years but it was your fault for letting him??

Classic narc statement.

It's always somebody else's fault.

Goes up there with the "you must pay" behaviour.

Ineedmore - yep...that's what he reckons. All those times he checked my internet usage, stopped me from going out, called me 16 times in 2 minutes cause I was not answering my phone, prevented me from leaving the room, told me I needed therapy, told me he understood why I was hit by a previous boyfriend, gave me several weeks of silent treatment because I was overweight and told me i couldn't talk - oh and told me I was stupid (I have a degree and a very high IQ).

That was my fault for accepting it. Yup.

When I feel like I have no strength or resolve I remember that I lived with abuse for 18 years. That makes me stronger than anyone I know.

Just a thought to get you through the morning.

Rennie, please don't think you're trapped. Your dcs mightn't like it, but so what? I'm sure they'd be unhappy if you sacrificed your future to save them a few pangs (and if they wouldn't be happy, then frankly they need to be jolted out of their selfishness. Sorry, not meaning to be mean about your dcs!)

As Golden and remember say, leaving isn't all about strength. It's about getting the right support in place, and just doing it. I had to shut down all my feelings and just zombie-like do it, and then afterwards I let my feelings (guilt and sorrow and anxiety about coping) catch up with me, and I dealt with them as they came.

Agree with bibliomania close your eyes and jump. If you think it through too much you will only see the obstacles and scare yourself into not doing it. Living as you are will probably be really draining. Even though in some ways on a practical level you will have more on your plate after leaving, the energy you will have from not living in tension will probably surprise you and more than see you through.

Trying to remember back to the actual break up- yes also to what bibliomania said, about sorrow and guilt especially if children are involved. A break up with children involved doesn't feature in anyone's original hopes and dreams for life and it can be hard to let go. Didn't feel elated or anything after leaving just sad that life had come to this for everyone. But those feelings fade over time. Especially when you see with your own eyes that life carries on, the children go to school, you go to the supermarket. Days turn into weeks and you realise you actually did it. And you have a whole world of possibility ahead of you. Good luck.

Just caught up on this, this thread makes me so sad for everyone in similar situations to myself.

I wouldn't change my DS for the world, but I do wish I could change the world for him

Lots of lovely advice, thank you. There are many times when I think 'right that's it' but then of course I change my mind.
Once I've been through this difficult time with my parents I'm really going to try and leave. I've lots of support from sister and friends. Just feel like I'll be wreaking my DCs family life, but I think H has done that really.

ohboll0cks what a great way of putting it. Will use that one myself now.
Again hopes and dreams for the "life my children would have" did not feature a relationship with their father that is to be "managed". My children are still very young and we have lots of years ahead of us just hoping we all come out the other side of childhood in good nick.

What do I do? Two weeks ago ex decided at last minute to collect dc early and turned up banging on the door and phoning me demanding I bring dc out. It was traumatic for me and made dc scream. Now he's saying he's going to collect early again today. I've said no but he said he's coming anyway. What the hell am I supposed to do about this man? Do I have to make sure we're out? This is just like our relationship: every time I said no he would ignore me or put me in a situation where he involved other people to manage my behaviour and make sure I couldn't say no. I don't need this shit any more and it's no good for dc. And he can only see this as my fault as I'm not letting him do what he wants. Last week he brought dc back later than I wanted too. Always his way. The court order has strict timings around pretty much everything which I put in place to avoid just this. The only thing that was left out were timings over this summer and look what's happened. It's ruining what what was supposed to be a nice day out with dc.

Why does there seem to be so many of these narc-type men about?

I would be out until pick up time if you can BigFatTent