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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh

992 replies

besshope · 03/08/2016 07:58

Step this way...
May I start of with a great big ROAR of frustration at having spent many years having to co-parent with someone who (after he left me for OW) has gone out of his way to make my life as difficult as possible. I know there are many of us, so here's a space to share frustrations, tips and experiences.

OP posts:
FoofFighter · 21/08/2016 22:28

Why do you have to meet? Can you do by letter or email? Please take someone with you if no choice, just in case anything kicks off

FoofFighter · 21/08/2016 22:29

Why do you have to meet? Can you do by letter or email? Please take someone with you if no choice, just in case anything kicks off

iamnotwhat · 22/08/2016 07:02

Hi foof. Good point. I just want to say what I have to say face to face as I think if I did it by email it would just keep rumbling on. Not saying it won't this way, but I'm hoping it'll help. We're meeting in a very public place.

FoofFighter · 22/08/2016 08:24

I hope it goes ok x

iamnotwhat · 22/08/2016 09:11

Thanks foof. So nervous

Ineedmorelemonpledge · 22/08/2016 09:27

Iam - that's very difficult to do with a narc.

It will be all your fault, no doubt.

Have your facts ready - times, dates, places and examples. Keep it factual and don't rise to emotional or personal digs or manipulation.

Good luck!

iamnotwhat · 22/08/2016 09:36

Thanks Ineed. Good advice. Quaking!

Swirlysunshine · 22/08/2016 09:39

Thank you for starting this. I'm a few years in and nearly bankrupted by court proceedings. Children still so young, long road ahead. I too have questioned "does he believe his own lies?". Judge once said so obvious an allegation he made isn't true but he genuinely seems to believe it himself ...im wondering is this delusional behaviour or kind of method acting- really getting into the persona of the victim ?

bibliomania · 22/08/2016 10:09

peach, that part about your childhood home is somehow extra awful.

iamnot, when you have to communicate about supervised access, I find it useful to put in an email, simply because I then have a written record if it ends up in court and exH tries to misrepresent what I've said. You can stop it rumbling on by not replying to emails once you've said what you need to say.

A new phase of game-playing by exH here. Based on a court order, he only has 5 hours of contact per fortnight. For a while exH was using the contact time to be quite unpleasant to dd(8) and she used to wish she didn't have to go. Now he's being nice Daddy and buying her expensive presents and being playful and kind and nice. Good in one way, but a head-fuck for her, as now she's thinking she must have exaggerated the bad stuff and she's crying because she wants more time. I suggested to him that we could increase the contact a bit (doesn't breach the court order as it sets out minimum contact, not maximum) but he won't reply to me. He wants to portray me in court as blocking contact (he's planning his next round of the legal battle - seven years on and counting), so this would ruin his narrative.

It's probably a good thing, as based on past experience, the contact is likely to start going badly again at some point. I should know by now that the thing he claims to want - time with dd - is not what he wants. What he wants is to be Victim/Hero/Centre of the Drama. It's exhausting, because whatever you do gets turned into ammunition.

bibliomania · 22/08/2016 10:12

Swirly, a judge said the same thing about my ex - couldn't tell if it was a sincere although delusional belief or whether it was pure spite. I don't think a narc would understand the question. Some of us think there is an objective truth that is either acknowledged or not, while some, things are what they say they are and that's the end of it.

bibliomania · 22/08/2016 10:15

For all my moaning above, it's actually still quite minor. I should say that after years and years, I found that social workers and judges did start to see a pattern and believe me, and things are a lot better than this time last year. ExH's unreasonableness did become evident to professionals over time.

iamnotwhat · 22/08/2016 11:09

Thanks bibliomania I think I'll follow it up with an email - basically summarising my feelings, what we talked about and what was decided. Is that a good idea? And then after this meeting I'll keep it non face-to-face.

Am I allowed to decide supervised access only to DCs or does a court have to decide that? So naive about such things. Didn't think it would come to this.

bibliomania · 22/08/2016 11:53

In all honesty, I'd leave your feelings out of it. An objective statement of what the outcome was, as short as possible. The more you say, the more there is for him to argue with.

You can't dictate supervised access. If your ex is willing to agree to your proposals, there isn't a problem. If he disagrees, and can be bothered, he can take it to court and CAFCASS will be asked to weigh up the evidence and make recommendations. It will be down to the strength of third party evidence - if you're the only witness of your ex's problematic behaviour towards the dcs, it can be very difficult, as you are assumed to have an agenda.

iamnotwhat · 22/08/2016 12:21

Thanks bibliomania

I have witnesses, which is why it's come to a head now. They came to me with their concerns. He isn't really bothered about the DCs, but I wouldn't be surprised if he pursues access to both punish me (putting me through the expense and stress, as he knows I will not stop trying to protect the DCs) and also because it's his "right" as a father to see them and treat them as he sees fit.

bibliomania · 22/08/2016 13:07

Ah yes, that's very typical of this kind of person.

Natsku · 22/08/2016 13:48

Good luck iamnot. Been catching up after losing this thread, so sad so many people have such shitty cunts for exes.

My ex did actually contact border authority to stop us leaving. Ended up missing our flight but were allowed to leave in the end as he didn't have any good reason to refuse permission.

I went through the worst with my ex a few months after I left in (I suppose when he realised I really wasn't coming back) when he and his parents (suspect his dad has issues too) accused me of abusing DD, had to be thoroughly investigated. But I was vindicated when his allegations were shown to be very false (police were wonderful and told me it is sadly quite common for this to happen). No matter what shit he pulls it can't be worse than that and I survived that so I get hope from remembering that.

GodImbored · 22/08/2016 13:54

It seems a lot of us have had to go to court re divorce/finances/ children. Everyone I know in real life has had a relatively amicable divorce.

Natsku · 22/08/2016 13:57

My ex somehow managed to get me to agree to him not paying any maintenance! They can be so convincing at times.

Ineedmorelemonpledge · 22/08/2016 15:48

I think that's the plan for my STBXH too...that he will grind me down so much I will simply stop asking, or that it will get so expensive to chase up with lawyers bills that it won't be worth the hassle. And he will get away with no maintenance.

And in some aspects I guess it would make an easier life for me.

The only reason visitation is going to plan is that he likes me more than his previous wife. So it's doing me a huge favour. Hmm

When he left his last family he told me that he'd gotten out a large loan and paid his ex an agreed sum. I think in retrospect it was all lies, and he used the money on himself. As soon as she became arsey about contact he cut them off completely. Never fought for them no matter how much I pleaded with him.

Hindsight is a spectacular thing isn't it...Sad

I would run a mile these days from a man that didn't see his kids, or complained about the money all going to the ex wife for her luxuries, it put his expensive hobbies before his maintenance. I wouldn't even stop running to give a thought to the circumstances.

We can support each other through this process but we can also make a positive effort never to involve ourselves with this type of narc again.

greencarbluecar · 22/08/2016 16:58

Oh lemon, me too. He'd already been a real dick over a previous family, did the things you describe above (as I came to discover) and painted himself as the victim. And of course, I fell for it, and of course, am now on the receiving end.

I wonder now, with the benefit of hindsight, how on earth I was so taken in. Now I wouldn't even want a friendship with a man who could behave like that, let alone a relationship. A bitter lesson learnt through experience, but an important one.

I'm in the quite early stages and I do worry about how, when meeting new people, I'll know whether or not to trust them. I hope I'll have a radar for the BS now, but I was so fooled by him that I'm not sure I'll trust my own judgement.

YetAnotherNC · 22/08/2016 19:08

Hi, I'm joining the thread. A big sorry for not reading the whole thread yet, but I couldn't help but let out a whoop when I saw the title. Thank fuck for that. I need to be with people who understand. My ex is.....oh my god..I don't have words....and the frustration and anger....GAHHHH! Hello everyone. Right, am off to read the thread and make sure I've not made a complete boo-boo!

RandomMess · 22/08/2016 21:54

More Wine to all of you & of course even more Flowers

Swirlysunshine · 23/08/2016 00:36

Thank you Bibliomania for your wise words.

This is amazing. I don't know anyone in RL in a similar situation. As per Godimbored says it seems most people have a totally different experience.

Has anyone felt the rage of other people not getting it and having a "you all need to grow up and think of the kids attitude" because so many people think it takes two. They're wrong.

PeachStone · 23/08/2016 02:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

rememberthetime · 23/08/2016 09:14

Can I join?
Currently in the throws of bashing out a separation with my H and it isn't going well. he is insisting on being totally in control and seems to want to delay things. he suggests that by waiting to tell the kids we are giving us time to get our heads around the idea and to display to them a show of unity. the when we tell them they will feel more secure that we are on the same page.
it makes no sense to me...we are separating. of course we aren't on the same page! But we can be civil, accommodating and fair - it doesn't take 2 months of proving that before we can move ahead.
Additionally i made the mistake of bringing up him possibly buying me out of the house - massive mistake. he pointed out that I was leaving - my choice. therefore I don't get my cake and eat it. i can't just walk away with half the house. Well, actually, if i choose, that's exactly what i can do.
I wasn't even saying that was what would happen, I just felt it made sense to explore it as an option.
We were talking at a pub and he got all heated and accused me of all sorts. I had to tell him to calm down.

So as things stand i am expected to wait and be the perfect co-parent until he feels the time is right. or set a date for some time weeks away before we do anything at all. he says that if i refuse that then I am not putting the needs of the kids first.

its just about controlling this process, isn't it?