support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh

[besshope]

Step this way...
May I start of with a great big ROAR of frustration at having spent many years having to co-parent with someone who (after he left me for OW) has gone out of his way to make my life as difficult as possible. I know there are many of us, so here's a space to share frustrations, tips and experiences.

Ooh I like the skittles idea!

Could we also get their faces printed on big signs, drive them out to a field somewhere and then take the furniture smashing axe and sledgehammer to them?

Now that would be satisfying. We could play Queen through the stereo while we did it.

Although actually now I've thought that scenario through a little more, the axe does feel a bit too much. He hasn't made me that broken.

Maybe just the sledgehammer

Hi all. Thanks for your support.

It's been a day of trying to make shit decisions. My DS doesn't have any injuries apart from a small bruise and to be honest a trip to the GP would just be more stressful for him. He is feeling very anxious about it all. I have made sure to detail all my concerns in writing to XH cc-ing my solicitor and I will use in court if necessary.

EXH is claiming DS has anger issues and it was all him. I don't really want to get sucked into his lies. My DS is a lovely, gentle, sensitive boy and has told me he did hit/kick him but I know that was when his anxiety kicked in big time after he was pushed around etc.

I have thought long and hard today. We have court in a few weeks and I know if DS didn't go to visit him this weekend he wouldn't ever return again. I don't think that is ideal (for DS). Other DC to take into account and I am not having them going to XH for treats and Disney days while DS is at home alone and feeling isolated and confused. It would also effect his relationship with siblings and I'm not having that. So, all or nothing. I am being reasonable one last time to attempt to keep their relationship alive, he is going to see him this weekend with siblings and knows he can call me immediately and I will collect him / all DCs if necessary. If shit hits fan in any way contact is over and I will demonstrate in court that I tried my best and was more than reasonable. DS does want a relationship with him but is just extremely anxious about it. Let's see how the weekend goes. Shit may hit the fan! If it does I will be in there and out grabbing my kids quicker than the SAS!

Purple you sound very strong and determined. Good luck for the weekend, hope nothing happens to upset any of your DC.

Hope the weekend goes ok purple

Oh dusters just read your post about the car! Brilliant!! I love it! Let's have a joy ride and pick up some nice young men (not! - no more men for me!)

I have quite mixed up thinking about the whole thing but I think it is important - to DS too - to try and see what XH has to say/do about the whole thing on one more contact visit. He is saying all the right things but history has shown he says but he doesn't do. I don't want DS to be in the wrong or run away from the problem (I hope that doesn't sound ridiculously naive) If XH is given this opportunity it will hopefully demonstrate to DS and Court etc that we have behaved reasonably and if he fucks it up we have been more than fair, calm and sensible about it. Any more games and I am buying an axe to join the gang!

Glad to see your posts purple. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place. I think that's a very fair and balanced decision. I hadn't thought about the aspect of being isolated from his siblings. That would be very damaging for him, allowing your ex to claim that he's the problem (which it sounds like he is doing anyway) instead of looking at his own role in all this.

I agree it also removes the element of wrong doing on your son's part. He's not going to hide at home, step away as though he needs to feel ashamed. It'll be interesting to see if your ex can actually make his deeds match his words. At least if there's any further problems your ds is with his siblings, and has you waiting in the wings.

I don't think you can do any more to show your reasonableness. You have assessed the situation as regards your son's safety, and are still acting in his best interests re continuing contact with his dad. I think you're both very brave, ex doesn't deserve either of you.

I'm loving the image of us all out in the Duster Mobile, mowing down the skittles with our ex's faces on. And in a field, sledgehammering (is that even a word?) the blown up faces in time to Queen songs. I think I'd chose "Don't Stop Me Now". Those clowns might think they're scary, they'd have nothing on us!

Well, must get my beauty sleep. If Jenson Button sees me out in my new wheels I need to be on top of my game!!

Apologies! I meant to come back to this thread but somehow it got lost in the ether.

My kids by the narc are now old enough that I don't have to have anything to do with him. Although I do have moments of fear when I think of family occasions - weddings etc - as I know he will be there. Thankfully no plans for weddings so I can park that !!

It's just so EXHAUSTING dealing with them. And they are so REASONABLe and it's all just so hard to get others to see it. My own parents didn't see it until they were on the receiving end - then they got it, but ty that stage it was a bit too late and it did a ton of damage to my relationship with them.

The best advice I can give - and I know it's a cliche - disengage disengage disengage. All communication in recordable format (email / text) never ever very ever ever try to talk to them. It won't work they will gaslight misremember and fuck with your head. (Oh how many times I did not do this and it always always bit me on the arse)

Never ever ever be alone with them without another adult present. Actually, try just never to be in the room with them ever.

Mine tried to introduce me to his girlfriend (who was the ow) at a family event last Christmas and I found a pair of balls and said no thank you. He pushed. I again said no thank you. The third time he did I said n THANK YU and stood up and walked away.

You're right auser. As far as it is possible just absolutely disengage. No good ever comes of any of the contact, then you have it in your head afterwards. Two friends mentioned my ex in texts yesterday, just very briefly, they'd been at the same venue. I didn't ask anything, don't want to know, not interested.

Nice. Exactly. No good ever comes of it.

But it's so tempting to think if you exaplin they will understand why they are unreasonable.

They won't. They never will in their world they are completely in the right and they will never ever ever see any other point of view.

Trying to talk reasonably to them and get them to change their mind is a waste of time. You might as well try and turn the tide.

And the thing is. No one else will see it until they are on the receiving end. That's not their fault, it just means they are not the narcs victim. Yet. And that is frustrating. And used to make me so angry (with my mum and dad)

I don't have any answers. I don't have any magic cure. That sounds a bit depressing and I don't mean it to. All I can say is it gets better once the kids grow because you don't have to see them.

We used to do pick up and drop off via school at my insistence to minimise actual contact. It was a pain in the hole at times, but infinitely better than him landing to my door and playing silly buggers being late or not bringing half of what was needed or just generally fucking about.

So, if I dropped to school, he picked up. Or vice versa

The only other pieces of advice are those I've already given and learnt the hard way. Copies of correspondence. Texts. Emails. Always always have back up evidence and try never ever to talk face to face with them.

I am certainly not perfect at it, I learnt it the hard way.

Wise words auser. I hadn't heard of the grey rock method/stance until I joined this thread. I think it is the only way to go. As you say, there is absolutely no reasoning with these people. They won't have a light bulb moment.

My kids are old enough to communicate pretty much everything to him that I need. I banned him from the house and speaking to me ages ago which helped a lot.

I've kept a copy of every text I've ever sent him, and that he's ever sent me.

You kind of have to shift your mind set I find. I've only just been able to do it. I was discussing something with a friend the other day. She said surely he'll see x, y and z, and do xxx accordingly? I said yes, in the real world that's what people would do, but he doesn't operate in the usual realm of things.

One of my lightbulb moments before I left was that I was trying to reason with the completely unreasonable (extreme gaslighting*).

Can't see that ever changing. I hate that he's reduced me to keeping copies of every bit of correspondence, but you do what you gotta do.

*Extreme gaslighting, the adventure sport of the chronically narcissistic.

I don't talk to mine. If he rings I'm always busy/out of the house/not likely to remember so can he please follow up by text just so we are both clear exactly what is being asked for.

And i never ring him. Or at least, I try not to. I do very occasionally get lulled into a false sense of security by a few months of peace and slip up - well I used to but i have now learnt the hard way that's not a good idea.

Dusters so glad to read you have a swanky car for the moment

You're so right auser I made that mistake a few weeks ago (needed an answer to something he'd ignored in writing) and the gaslighting was at the level where it would be funny if it wasn't my life, iykwim.

I wish we really could go out in the Duster Mobile, if only for the relief of being in the company of those who understand!

Purple how are things on the frontline?

I needed to vent here tonight! I have just blocked all of Ex-H's abusive communication via phone, instant message, text and email and moved it to the Family Wizard platform.
He would call me "sick, bitter, twisted" and "you aren't coping well with parenting" and "you have anger management issues" yet address emails to me with "Dear" and close them with "My very best regards" and "Best wishes".
I just want this nasty man to leave me alone! We are divorced and he has custody of our son every Saturday. He sends me numerous nasty emails throughout the week and pretends to be the victim even though he was sexually, emotionally and financially unfaithful and physically abusive. When will the nightmare end? My therapist said as soon as he finds a girlfriend he will stop annoying me and be busy with his next victim.

I hope your therapist is right *momv2", but I suspect your actions in blocking your ex are the only way you are going to stop him. From the looks of it you don't have any need to communicate; divorced and contact agreed. So he can keep his nasty little thoughts to himself. You've taken control. If you don't see his words, hear his voice, hear anything second hand, he's gone. Your son will always be a point of some contact, but do it on your terms.

Balanced and Green : the Duster Mobile is always open for business. Perhaps we could run it as a sort of mobile library, like in the good old days? We'll call it "Narcs R Us" or "The Grey Rock Gang". We'll cruise around handing out Lundy Bancroft books, sledgehammers and all our publications, such as "The Narc Survivial Handbook". Queen of course on the stereo.

Purple - I too have been wondering about you and your son today. And frog, are you and your dc feeling any better ?

Momv2 I'll vent with you right now. Blood is boiling and if ex was in front of me now I'd want to hurt him. DCs had lovely Disney day with ex on the surface, but lots of horrible comments sneaked in to say what a bad Mum I am (our son has SEN and he was suggesting I caused the needs rather than I'm helping him). DD described feeling shame at having to hear it and feeling unable to say anything to stop it

Plus ex-MIL has been saying things that she knows DD doesn't like to make her squirm (power trip).

When I complain, giving clear and multiple examples, I'm 'lying and bitter'.

I want to disengage but he's been working very hard to make me react and communicate with him. It's as though he knows hurting DCs hurts me and he still loves the control.

In my head I'm screaming "fuck you" over and over at him.

Sorry my vent has gone on quite long!

Oh Lilac. If you knocked his fucking head off right now I think you'd be forgiven by every right minded person. What an utter scum bag. Just had a quick scroll back to see if I could remind myself how old your dc are ?

I agree to keep trying to disengage with him. But d'you know what, maybe it's time to fight fire with fire. You wouldn't have to make up the kind of shit he does about you, I remember some of the things in earlier posts.

How about you drop him a line, copied to his mother. Detail all the vile, nasty facts you know about him, and her. Detail all the revolting lies they've told your dc about you. Tell them that if they carry on speaking about you in this way that you will tell the children the truth. Remind them that you are the primary residential carer. The children spend the majority of their time with you, and that he and his family are just a side show. If he wants his children turned against him then you're happy to oblige.

My ex has texted me in the past when he's been unhappy about things I've said to the dc. I've replied it's the truth, tough luck. I've also said he's lucky I haven't said a lot more.

So cross for you.

Thanks for support dusters they're 10 and almost 7, so old enough to remember all of this. I'm fairly honest with them but they desperately want to love their Dad and to be loved back, so I'll hold back on some things. In many ways I think he'll ruin his relationship with them, whatever I do, as they see signs of his bad behaviour.

It's just so uneccessary as he has happiness in his life so why mess about with DCs to get at me?

I agree on the holding back. I was thinking more of trying to put the frighteners on him and his mother. I'm sure he will spoil his relationship with them, because these men can't love unconditionally. It's just so unfair that they should have to listen to lies about their own mum, feel unable to speak up, yet still want the bond with him as he's their dad.

So horrible for you as well of course. As to your last question, I don't know. Maybe these types of people are never truly happy. I think a lot has to do with an inflated sense of self, ego, self image. How dare you not want him? How dare you take his children away? Isn't there a saying about some people don't feel like they've won unless everybody else has lost? Maybe it's that.

True his vile mum will even say things about goldern-child him to 'win', to be the most supreme person ever. He is just like her. He thinks he is superior to everyone around him.

Putting frightners on may just work though. He fears exposure of any kind. He isn't good with new people and new places so I may get school involved.

My ex and his siblings were raised by their narc father to think they were superior. Not in a snobby kind of way, just a don't mess with me kind of thing. All about honour, manners, not being taken for a fool, but in a skewed way.

My ex is also not good with new people and new places. As frog commented earlier, it's scary how similar our stories are.

You mentioned involving the school. That crossed my mind earlier when you mentioned SEN. I think in light of his comments it would be inappropriate for him to discuss his ds's needs with the school. I think they should know he thinks, and told his ds, that you are the cause.

What's the worst that could happen if you called him and his mum out on all this? He can't claim that you're an unfit mother, you're actually trying to protect them from him and her. It's not slander, or blackmail, you're not threatening to stop contact.

My ex knows I've got a cupboard load of skeletons about him and his family. I'm pretty sure he knows that if he ever pushed things too far I'd open the door and let a lot spill out. I don't care how this would make me look, as I have no regard for the people who would have an opinion.