support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh

[besshope]

Step this way...
May I start of with a great big ROAR of frustration at having spent many years having to co-parent with someone who (after he left me for OW) has gone out of his way to make my life as difficult as possible. I know there are many of us, so here's a space to share frustrations, tips and experiences.

Hi Sky

Sorry your situation means you have to join us.

Your ex sounds very controlling.

Seems apt for this thread:

My ex h decided last night to drop of sick ds 3 back to me.
This involved ds3 sitting in a car for over an hours drive.
The reason he brought him back even after I pointed out that he was still his parent even when he is sick, was because they were all going out for a meal with ex h's parents. Oh and ex h didn't want to risk getting ill. (He actually said that)

Why can't anyone in his family see how wrong that is?
If any of the kids are with me and become ill then I cancel any plans. I would never put a meal out before looking after my child.

Oh frog that's a bit whoo !!

I was driving earlier and that song came on the radio ! I immediately thought of you and Purple and was singing along in my best X Factor audition voice !!!!

Top that is so crap, and just utterly typical of the behaviour detailed on this thread.

Presumably his family won't see just how wrong his behaviour is because he learnt it from them in the first place? As for him not getting ill. Well, he probably sees his job and time as more important than yours, so it's ok for you to be ill.

Can't believe one of the grand parents didn't say I'll stay behind and look after xx? Then again, if they're all cut from the same cloth they wouldn't. My ex's family would think he was a saint for driving him all the way home!!

Top that is crap - these blokes only want the 'perfect kids' don't they? Only the good bits and none of the responsibility or actual parenting. As soon as something goes wrong - whether it's school, behaviour, illness etc it becomes 'our' problem.

Goodness Top, but I don't think he'll be alone in thinking and acting that way. My child will be going for contact even if ill as long as she's able to physically go and not stuck to the loo/sick bowl. Why should they always get to cherry pick the good bits of "parenting" ?
It's like them working on a weekend, oh Im working a bit of overtime I can't have them - well, get childcare like we have to ffs, or don't do the overtime as you aren't available ffs

That IS a bit woo, dusters. I was going to post it last night for you and purple but fell asleep.

Top - ah, the old 'cherry picking parenting tasks' move. It just goes to show how far we still have to go with patriarchal perceptions of gender roles. He and his parents won't think anything of it because they are likely entrenched in 'wimmn's work' thinking: men earn the money, get time off sick, are absolute saints for playing for 10 minutes with the kids or doing the odd school run and work/money must always come first.

Nicenewdusters my boy is 11 - he doesn't want to see his dad either at the minute. Ex hasn't realised yet that it's him who needs to be trying to repair this relationship with his son. He's texted me saying I have to help my son improve his attitude. . All his ranting is all about him and that he feels disgusted by son. He can't see that he has a son who's disgusted and hurt by him. It's incredibly sad. He's already done this to the eldest, who now just tolerates him.

"All his ranting is all about him..." That's the top and bottom of it really, isn't it? Your ds won't be kicked into line - good for him - so ex is going to throw his toys out the pram until he gets what he wants.

You say he's already done this to the eldest, so he clearly hasn't/isn't going to learn any lessons. Then again people who think they know it all never do learn anything.

How are you going to approach this now? I'm assuming your view is that he's better off not seeing his dad anyway.

Nice new I don't honestly know what to do now. I want my kids to have a relationship with their dad, and I will help and support them in that. What I'm not going to be is an intermediary between them - given ex's hatred of me, that wouldn't go well!!

Both ex and son have retreated to their corners and are licking their wounds at the minute. Unless ex is willing to accept his part in this, it's going to be difficult to reestablish contact in any form unfortunately.
I kinda don't know where to go from here

Sky, you're describing my ex to a 'T' - and my mother.

Have you looked at NPD? It may explain some of your ex's unreasonable reactions.

I finally flipped this weekend and sent the ex an email asking him to pay what he owes and to sort some date changes out. I also mentioned how tired I am of his games and his inability to put the kids first.
The upshot of this is that he's told the kids that I am 'vile' and has read them parts of the email. Sadly there was nothing in the email that isn't true. What he doesn't realise is that the eldest children see straight through him and understand the amount of stress that he causes me (waiting for him to go to trial for something unrelated to our relationship) and they know that this isn't just an everyday email, I really had got to the end of my tether ....

This is the hardest part I think Sky. You want to help maintain that relationship, even if you know your ex is a less than desirable parent, because he's the only dad they're going to get. However, because your ex is so unreasonable with you (my situation also) you can't co-parent, and so help in any meaningful way in these situations.

Not sure what I'd do either. I think I would however make it clear to your son that whatever decision he makes now, or in the future, you will support him. I'm sure you've done this anyway. He may feel guilty about not seeing him for lots of reasons; his sibling still does, he'll know you want him to, it is still his dad. On the other hand if he does see him he may feel he's letting him win, which may make him feel powerless. If you're (rightly) cross with his dad, he may also feel he should align himself with you and not see him.

Either way you won't be able to win with your ex, so stuff him in that regard. Your son's feelings are paramount, he has as much control here as his dad. Which of course his dad won't be able to stomach.

Sky - my ex is the same. Our eldest isn't keen on seeing his dad but his dad cannot believe that it's anything to do with his own behaviour - it's all because of me (even though I have always encouraged contact) and therefore ex doesn't change his behaviour and eldest still isn't keen to go

And I'll second what new said - your ex won't change and you've done all you can so just put your son first.

Chloe - my dd (11) saw some texts on ex's phone earlier this year between us. Didn't have the full picture and so started to criticise me for arguing with dad. Rightly or wrongly I sat down with her and went through all the texts. I explained the background, and tried to let her see what had happened. They weren't abusive or anything, just "heated" shall we say!

If you think it's appropriate I'd be tempted to let your dc know what the whole email said. He's cherry picked to his advantage no doubt, so perhaps you should let them know the whole truth.

Although I want to protect my dc from the darker side of their dad's character, I'm finding now that it's sometimes counter-productive. If he's really upset me I try not to let my mood affect them. But why should I hide the fact that he behaves like this? I know he does me no favours, has a horrible nickname for me for example.

Trying to pretend when it comes to him is starting to take it's toll on me. I know what you mean about the end of your tether. I'm going to try and do what I know he does - pretend he doesn't exist. Oh how I wish !!

This thread seriously helps my sanity. Although it's not nice to know others are facing similar situations!

My ex starts all conversations from the perspective that I'm wrong and need correcting. He does something wrong - it's still my fault. My friends act as though they'd have been stronger in my position and sorted ex out. I have to be the calm one so my DCs don't see us arguing. As has been said, he's their one dad so I want them to have a relationship with him (he couldn't care less what they think of me).

So many parallels. How are these men able to sleep at night?

I wonder are some ex women the same or is this linked to behaviour that men are socially allowed to develop (or testosterone)?

OH GOD the cherry picking parenting, their time is more important, not putting kids first, acting like you're wrong and need correcting...fucking dickheads the lot of them.

I've just caught up and identify with so much of what you've all said it's incredible. How do they all end up doing the same basic things?

What I find so difficult is that I left the controlling lying twat to get away from his manipulative life destroying ways and he's still influencing my decisions and interactions and confidence...If only I were being melodramatic.

Sorry not to have come back over the weekend, had a shit few days. Spent a couple of hours sobbing on the phone to WA, was so exhausted with it all I couldn't even face trying to post on our lifesaver thread.

Glad you're ok nice. Natsku and sky those both sound very frightening but you are both doing the best for your DC, hang in there you're acting in their interests and that's what counts. If I try to respond to everything I want to I'll write the longest post in the history of the internet so I'll just leave these here for everyone and send you all lots of strength and solidarity

I was hoping your absence meant you were having some respite from all the rubbish greencar, sorry to see it's quite the opposite.

I've been without my dc most of the weekend so have had a lot of time to think. On this thread the issue of control is the theme running through all our situations. We have all been with men who, for who knows what reason, need to control the women in their lives. I feel it's because they are essentially weak, emotionally. For them to accept that another person (whom they are now close to) is autonomous, has rights, their own opinions and history, is too much for them.

This opens the door to them maybe being criticised, or exposed, which if you're a scared little boy at heart must be your biggest fear. At the beginning of the relationship they may well have been looking for the same as us. But essentially they can't handle the intimacy, the responsibility, the compromise etc. When we finally leave them their worst fears are confirmed. We are the enemy. We have had the audacity to call them out, show them up, we've burst the bubble.

So we must pay. And so must our children. For me I feel the only way to proceed is to take back/remain in control. This is made much harder because, primarily financially, women are usually worse off after a split. We subsequently have less opportunities for all sorts of things, due to child care etc. Most importantly we are more vulnerable because we put our children first. This means we put up with things we never would in other areas of our life. It's the right thing to do, but we pay a high price personally.

I can't think of any other way to deal with these type of exes. As you say green, you left him to get away from all the shit. The more in control we can be the less power they have over us. As this thread shows though, the CMA, the courts, social services, can all conspire to make life even more unfair, and tip the scales in their favour.

This week I shall be channeling the Queen songs as suggested by frog and purple, and using the very mature mantra of "fuck 'em" !!

Apologies for rambling, I shall remove my head from my arse and go to bed now. Hope the new week brings more good than bad for us all.

Oh green I'm sorry he's getting you down - it seems never ending.

I'm feeling incredibly low this morning.

I'm ill, the kids are ill, the house is a mess after me lying on the couch all weekend. I have no energy. I'm not sleeping due to illness and worry. I have to go through the ex's awful statement today with my support worker which reads like a condemnation of my ability to parent. We are a matter of weeks from the final hearing and I honestly don't know what I will do if I'm proven incapable - my toddler's life will be turned completely upside down.

Oh god, I wasn't really going to post... I don't even know why I clicked.... but you're all living my life.

I'm so ill, I feel rough. I've been ill for almost a week now and I'm on my knees with no sleep..... and exH has decided not to have DS tonight (Has him usually one night a fortnight) because tomorrow he has to work. Tomorrow, not tonight.....

And this comes in the midst of DS (age 4) deciding he doesn't like dad any more. Won't give a reason, just doesn't like him. Didn't even get him to go and see his dad last week which is the first time ever he's refused. This has been going on for weeks and after one time too many of putting him in the car screaming his head off I said I'm not doing this any more and gave him the choice. So he didn't go. And ex says "oh I'm heartbroken" and in the next sentence, oh I can't have him next week because I'm busy. And the week after that he's away so it'll be a month between visits and somehow I've got to get DS in the car with him. And ex decided it was all my fault because I must have a new boyfriend which is upsetting DS (I don't)

And I'm so fucking tired. I work full time, I get sick, no one looks after DS for me or helps me out. I just carry on.

We've got an appointment with the family therapist this week. I want to change contact but I don't think ex will go for it.

Sorry. Ranting. Gah.

Rant away, instantly

What do you think he would do if you just dropped your son on his doorstep and told him he has as much responsibility to be a parent as you do and to sort childcare if that is what is needed?

He'd be flabbergasted. He'd dump him on some unsuspecting neighbour. I wouldn't do it to him.

We also don't really do direct confrontation. I worked out years ago it's not worth it. His method of dealing with confrontation is just to pretend it isn't happening. I may as well scream at a brick wall. Better for my mental health to work around him.

my dad was an abusive with Narc tendancies, , so i have been fortunate not to suffer at the hands of a Narc partner. i really feel for you all on here; it sounds awful. and there is so little help for Narc on the NHS so their illness can be treated. which leaves us in a horrible place. i wish you all well in your recovery