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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh

992 replies

besshope · 03/08/2016 07:58

Step this way...
May I start of with a great big ROAR of frustration at having spent many years having to co-parent with someone who (after he left me for OW) has gone out of his way to make my life as difficult as possible. I know there are many of us, so here's a space to share frustrations, tips and experiences.

OP posts:
nicenewdusters · 02/10/2016 18:33

Purple. Chewed up feelings is such a good way of putting it. I don't have any advice as such, and all our situations are different, so I can only say what I now do.

Basically I say did you have a good time, everything ok? - and let them tell me what they want to. They don't usually say much, some things might get mentioned later. I try not to delve, just "hmm", "that's nice", "oh, I see" then I (generally) just leave it.

I don't ask detailed questions, or talk about things at length. I've found by doing this I feel I have them "back" quicker. Also, when I feel myself being curious I ask, what will I do with this info? If it's going to enrage me, annoy me, make me feel annoyed with somebody else, am I going to be able to act upon it? Almost 100% of the time the answer is no, so I'm better not knowing.

I do of course talk to them about important things, and put them straight if ex has said something completely inaccurate or unfair. My eldest is pretty loyal to him though so I suspect keeps that kind of stuff to herself. My youngest is very perceptive and cuts to the chase, not so loyal, and will sometimes tell it like it is.

It's hard. I feel like they're a bit suspicious of me for a few minutes when they come in. But after a while I can see them sinking back into the routine with me. A bit of tickling, fart jokes and being stupid generally helps!!

PurpleThursday · 02/10/2016 19:00

Thank you Dusters. That is very level and helpful advice. They have come back full of presents and bullshit. I find it so hard. A full on Disney weekend. They are so easily bought. And he has turned it up to the max on them while all of the court shit is going on - and his family who have let them down on birthdays and Christmas too many times to mentioned - gifts and treats to the max today. He also asked if I would cook for them tonight so I prepared a nice meal - only to be told that they have been showered with more treats and Frankie & Bennies for lunch and they aren't hungry. I am currently sitting on the stairs, venting to you and gritting my teeth. SadSad

nicenewdusters · 02/10/2016 19:30

Oh Purple that's horrible. Vent, grit your teeth and call him horrible MN names in your head. I always refer to my ex now, to myself, as twat. I find it helps to minimise him, and makes me laugh as it's so childish!!

Just think how nasty it must be to have to spend your money on "stuff" so that your children will think better of you. D'you think he had a really awkward chat with his family, about how they often forget birthdays etc but how he needs them to ramp up the gifts to make him/them look good? What a bunch they must be, that's got to chip away at your soul a bit, eh?

In 6 months time your kids won't remember the shiny stuff gathering dust in their bedroom. They'll remember that you were there, on Sunday night, with a home cooked meal.

Weirdly my ex is the opposite with stuff. He considers his maintenance to be on a par with a holy sacrifice! He does take them out, buys the odd thing, goes on holiday etc. But he never, ever, buys anything practical, such as school shoes, a practical item of clothing etc.

I recently purchased everything when my dd changed schools. He didn't contribute so much as a pencil. This is his way of saying I work so hard, do my bit, the rest is up to you, not my concern (so kind of Disney Dad but slightly twisted). What he doesn't realise is that my kids will look back and wonder how on earth did mum provide all the basics, because I think that's what they remember.

For all the presents and meals, if they have a bad day tomorrow at school it's you they'll want to run to. It'll be your voice they want to hear, your arms to give them a hug. Kids are smart.

PurpleThursday · 02/10/2016 19:50

Thank you Dusters that really really helps.

He is only buying/ bribing as we are in the middle of court issues.

My eldest has also just told me that exH was saying how he wishes he could spend extra time with them every other weekend and it would be so nice for all of them. What he didn't tell him is that he is trying to drop seeing them on the other weekend now so would only be fortnightly. I felt I had no choice but to tell my DS that bit and he was shocked! He is also trying to 'drop' the midweek night that he originally requested and I agreed to immediately - but it doesn't suit him now. Of course he didn't tell DS that either. What an absolute bastard to be trying to manipulate this kid to agree to the things he wants with absolutely no shame. And no consideration for what the children want or what is best for them at all. This whole court system is such a load of bollocks too, this sad male specimen is going to cost us a fortune and never stick to what they decide anyway - there seems no recourse - no one is going to want to spend more money and go through the shit all over again via court. He is messing my kids heads up in this process even more, I loath him.

PurpleThursday · 02/10/2016 19:52

I also know (from years of bitter experience) that his family won't carry on being so kind and generous to the kids. They will all fall out with each other, not turn up for birthday parties, not send presents for weeks, not turn up on Christmas Day etc. It's the kids that will get hurt by the picking up and putting down again when it suits them and I seem powerless to stop this. SadAngry

nicenewdusters · 02/10/2016 20:18

From your posts Purple I loath the man too, so I'll loath him by proxy if that's ok with you [winks]

Totally right to tell your ds what your ex's real intentions are as regards contact. You are the only truthful point of reference they have. It's not slagging him off, you are just letting them know the facts.

As regards his family. I've mentioned earlier in the thread about my ex's family. I've been totally honest with my dc about the behaviour of some of them. When they asked if I liked xxx, I said no, they're not a good person, and told them why I thought that. I haven't laboured the point, or gone on to take pot shots at them. I'm just factual if they've seen them. I don't pretend I care about them, but say that I know my dc do care and that's quite right.

Your stories of the court system are scary for somebody like me who hasn't been through it. It looks bloody insane from the outside. Same old same old about men claiming access has been denied, when actually they've dipped in and out as and when it suits them. The whole court and maintenance system is bankrupt, but then whilst it's a male lead institution it will remain so.

Going to go and iron the shit out of some clothes to release some loathing!!!

PurpleThursday · 02/10/2016 20:31

Thanks for sharing the loathing. It actually helps. Flowers

Yes, the court system is absolute bollocks. Pointless and unnecessary stress that I can't seen any benefit in at all. Another nice twist on that is that the Barrister is approx £1500 for the day and the court can justifiably not see you on the appointed day if another case runs over - all quite likely as they double book all sessions to ensure they have enough. And guess what happens if you are cancelled and have to go back another day? You are still liable for the £1500 as the barrister has sat there all day waiting too.... And of course you are then given a new date which you will also be charged for.... All for an agreement that either party can ignore with bugger all recourse because no one in their right mind would chose to put themselves through it again. Who is thinking of the kids or the skint single parent trying to support the kids in all of this shit? It is a disgrace.

PurpleThursday · 02/10/2016 20:33

Sorry. I am going to try and find something positive in all this shit..

nicenewdusters · 02/10/2016 21:16

£1500 for the day - and if it's cancelled? Words fail me.

No apologies needed. There is usually a positive lurking somewhere, I think in this case it's just very, very well hidden at the moment.

Well, my dc just came back. They had a meal out today, and then went shopping. He wasn't going to take them but then remembered he had to get some things! My ds did actually need a particular item of clothing, and asked for this. He was told he didn't need it, an argument ensued, which ended with "your mother can buy it."

Ex bought himself some clothes. I asked dd what dad had bought her. She said nothing, as she didn't need anything. Actually she needs a few new winter things, which we've just discussed. She won't ask him though, as he's done a good job at making himself a financial victim, and she's a people pleaser.

I'm starting to think it's also a sexist thing with him. Shopping, children, clothes, all very women's work - twat.

PurpleThursday · 02/10/2016 21:28

Complete twat.

And shit father.

Chloecoconut · 02/10/2016 21:43

I agree with Purple about sharing the loathing - sometimes I read this thread and it just helps that I'm not the only one who has to deal with the same crap. Not that I like that anyone else has to deal with it but ykwim....

My ex is currently ignoring my emails. When he hasn't got the kids I hear nothing, when he does have them he send about 5 a day (I had to block him on text so we communicate via email). He cannot seem to understand that I don't need to know about fights over school ties or homework refusal- get on with it and do some bloody parenting! Apparently all I contact him over is money. That'll be because he doesn't pay for things that need paying for then .... if he did pay then I'd not need to contact him. Why oh why do they have this NEED to keep in touch or to do silly things that mean you have to contact them? Grrrrrrr. Sorry - rant over!

PurpleThursday · 02/10/2016 22:00

It's control. It's always on their terms.

It's also rarely putting the children's needs first. He wants to pass the parenting buck to you - too much like hard work. Pathetic.

I didn't actually block my exes number - but I told him I was going to if he didn't stop - I've now had it thrown at me in court that I blocked his phone!

Lilacpink40 · 03/10/2016 08:05

I'll join in the loathing and share my lovely ex's latest thoughts. My DD is sitting an exam soon. I told her I'd give her £40 to spend on anything for all the work that she's put in as it has been a hard slog of work over 2 years (I'm practical and would usually encourage books or clothes). She was excited to think about how she'd use it as she's normally expected to do chores for pocket money.

She told him this and he said bring the money along so you can pay for your part of our next days out!

He pays child maintenance, but that's not supposed to cover basics right?
(I pay mortgage, bills, kids breakfast and afterschool clubs and all their regular activities).

He'll be paying for him, his girlfriend and our DS, but thinks DD should pay for herself. Arghhh!

Lilacpink40 · 03/10/2016 08:08

Thanks for advice on BF too. I'm now not sure where that's going as he's going to be working over 3hrs away from me soon. He knew and didn't say - wondering whether I attract men that can't be straight? Hmm

Froginapan · 03/10/2016 11:01

Lilac - that's very manipulative of your ex to expect DD to pay for her days out with him.

bibliomania · 03/10/2016 11:38

Lilac, that's unbelievably tight of your ex. It's good when they're unsubtle, as it gets easier for the dcs to see through them.

nicenewdusters · 03/10/2016 14:40

What a tight arse he is Lilac. Probably jealous that you did something kind and generous for your dd. Sorry about the change in situation with your BF, d'you think he was worried it would frighten you off?

Lilacpink40 · 03/10/2016 21:35

Thanks it's good to know I've not lost my sanity somehow and ex is being tight.

Nice I think you're right about BF, I knew from start he would have periods of time away, think he wanted us to get to know each other without pressure. He'll be back weekends, if not I think it will end Sad

Wish ex was the one with work away!

He's currently doing the nice talking act so like others I'm wondering what's coming...

Natsku · 04/10/2016 12:08

Oh wow lilac, what an arse to expect his child to pay for their day out!

greencarbluecar · 05/10/2016 06:06

Oh lilac I'm sorry. My ex does things like that too. DC get pocket money from a family member, which goes to him. He keeps it. Justifiable in his mind because he spends money (which he can well afford himself) during contact time.

Does he by any chance also see CM as a payment to you for looking after the DC?

Your poor DD. It's a horrible message to get from anyone, especially your parent. Hopefully she can find a positive, long-term, from this in seeing him for what he is and knowing that he and nobody else is the problem.

nicenewdusters · 05/10/2016 19:11

Hope nobody minds if I have a little moan and feel sorry for myself for a bit.

Mentioned earlier about my dd taking up a new sport. It impacts (slightly) upon one of his evenings and his weekend day. He agreed to it. DD told him on the phone that he would need to pick her up from xxx at a certain time. She came off the phone quickly and said he'd said he'd have to think about it. It basically means getting to somewhere about 10 mins from our home about 20-30 mins earlier than he gets here. Which really just means he has to put himself out a bit.

Text last night, he can't do it, he'll be here usual time. DD asked why can't he come? I said I don't know, he probably doesn't want to leave work early or can't be bothered to make the effort to change his habits. I reassured her that I would pick her up.

Fast forward to today. Someone crashed into my car whilst I was in traffic. A lot of damage, and I have neck and shoulder pain. Paramedic neighbour checked me over, off to GP tomorrow. Ex arrived later than usual time to collect kids, no doubt to show just how busy he was. Kids were desperate to tell him about the crash (one was in the car, they're fine). He drives off, then reverses back, gets out and inspects car on the drive.

Not once since collecting them has he ever got out to help with a heavy bag, or a difficult situation. But to inspect HIS car, out in a flash. He's such a git. The car is in his name, and he refused to allow me to be the registered owner when he left. This made insuring it for me very difficult and expensive. I'm worried now the insurers may need to deal with him about it. It may also be a write off which would be a disaster for me as I need it for work. If he's involved in anyway I know he'll be an arse. He already said I should sell it and give him the money. Funny, when we were together it was "our" car.

It troubles me that I feel such hatred for him now. Tonight I feel very single and vulnerable. The dc are with him overnight which helps so I can have an early night, but the house is very quiet. Friends and neighbours have been great, but not having that person to care about you sucks.

greencarbluecar · 05/10/2016 21:37

Flowers nice sometimes you just want someone to give you a hug, take care of you and share the strain even if just for a half hour, don't you?

He's an arsehole. I have no doubt that you already know this all too well, so I won't list why - you've done that above - but I will reiterate it. A. Complete. Arsehole. Selfish, selfish dick who your DC will see right through. I'm so angry on your behalf.

But enough about him. How is the pain? Have you managed to have a quiet, relaxing evening? Is it worth giving the insurance company a ring to find out where you stand, to stop you worrying about the possibilities?

Look after yourself, and do let us know how you are after the GP Chocolate

nicenewdusters · 05/10/2016 22:12

Thank you so much greencar, that's given me a virtual hug!

Haven't been able to get through to the insurers. Have emailed with brief details so they at least have a record of me reporting it asap. Did a quick look on autotrader to value the car. Hopefully the repairs will come in under the value, will have to wait and see.

Neck feeling easier. Took painkillers and used neighbour's heated neck pillow. Other neighbour came round with "car crash relief kit" - flowers, bubble bath etc. It made me feel tearful that she had been so kind, sort of thing that restores your faith in human nature.

My son came back from ex's tonight, didn't sleep over. I generally collect him but had already told ds that wouldn't be possible. At least ex brought him back, but then really he had no choice. Glad he's here.

I asked ds what dad had said about the accident. He thought a bit then said "Actually, he was alright about it". What an interesting answer. Most kids would be able to say, oh he said what a shame, glad nobody was hurt. His angle appeared to be at least dad wasn't cross/angry.

Have had some medicinal chocolate! Will update after GP visit. Off to bed now with various pills and pillows! Thanks again.

Lilacpink40 · 06/10/2016 00:22

"Not having that person to care about you sucks."

Nice this resonates with me. Whilst I'm seeing someone who says the right things it's not stable, unlikely to last and if anything it's a glimmer of what I see others having, that I've never really had. I think it's probably a connection that we all want, someone to love and support in a fair adult way and to be loved and supported back.

Instead we've had relationships with highly selfish people. It feels worse then, when other negative things happen. I hope you are ok and your car can be fixed Flowers

Things to be proud of after surviving a narc ex IMO:

  1. Resilience to still essentially be the same person
  2. To not have stooped to the same level
  3. The ability to leave and start again
  4. Knowledge of red flags to not get into the same situation again. 5) The ability to imagine slapping ex to floor after selfish behaviour but not actually to do it

Anyone else have thoughts to add?

PurpleThursday · 06/10/2016 08:18

Oh dusters, I have just seen this. What a crap day!

I hope you managed some decent rest and are feeling ok today.

I understand completely about a loving, strong arm around you. Just to hold you up for a little bit when you are tested. I believe you will have it one day. Right now your DCs need you more than another man I think.

What wonderful neighbours! So thoughtful and considerate. BrewCake

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