support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh

[besshope]

Step this way...
May I start of with a great big ROAR of frustration at having spent many years having to co-parent with someone who (after he left me for OW) has gone out of his way to make my life as difficult as possible. I know there are many of us, so here's a space to share frustrations, tips and experiences.

Nice kids are kids. They will always try to get their way won't they!

It's almost like they can't be bothered to be a parent but do it out of spite to us...that's what it seems to me about 90% of the time in my situation. How often does he see your DC? I know what you mean by all the normal texts, lulls us into a sense of..false everything. But they will always be there behind it.

I've had an awful evening. Some things that happened to me in the relationship got the better of me in August and I contacted a helpline specific to that. They gave me some advice, mostly to contact women's aid and in all honesty I didn't bother. I just felt like it was all too much effort, I didn't want to go over it again, didn't want to say it out loud. Tonight I've had enough. Our ongoing argument is about Christmas. DD is staying with me and he thinks it is his turn, which may be true but he is living in a studio flat with his latest girlfriend/fiancee and her toddler. It's bad enough that twice a month another 3 year old is thrown in the mix, DD, but I'm just not having it at Christmas. He has basically said he will take me to court about it (yawn, this old chestnut) and wants a contact agreement in place. I have never broken our verbal agreement on contact, I travel to goddamn London twice a month to drop DD off with him, so she can see her daddy. Many times, last year mostly, he just didn't bother turning up or said he missed his train, and then once this year he didn't bring her back on the right day, said he was too ill. I thought he was going to run away with her, I was so sick with worry.

Anyway, that rambled on, but yes tonight I have contacted women's aid for some advice. I don't know if they are the right people or what. I feel like everything is on top of me all at once and I'm really worried that something will be the final straw and I'll break, and I cannot afford to do that as I have DD to care for. I thought it would be all over once we left him but really I haven't even begun the repairing process. Any and all advice is welcome...please...

I hope things are looking better this morning bonfire and dusters. I don't know what to suggest other than keep calm and take one day at a time.

There must be something in the water, yesterday was a hellish day for me too. I got details from my ex regarding our court date for childcare arrangements. It is so full of lies I actually couldn't believe it. I should have expected it I know but this is court! If he can lie on official court papers then what is the point in any of it? All of the stress, emotional damage , not to mention money and you are dealing with someone who is prepared to lie anyway. It's just so fucking wrong and I don't know how I'm going to get through it all and still be emotionally strong enough to be there for my kids.

Oh purple.

I'm going through the exact same thing. The lies are awful and incredibly hurtful. I wish I hadn't read his 10 page diatribe - if I didn't know me I'd be very worried for the children of a mum who is being described as I am.

Is he wanting full residency of the children?

Thanks Bonfire and Purple. Off now but will return to the thread later. My post looks a bit pathetic when you are struggling with court issues etc, I'm touched that you read it and commented. I guess it's a sliding scale of shitiness - from a bit whiffy to the sewers !!

When you are dealing with someone who is determined to make your life as miserable as possible and will use their own children to do so there is no spectrum: it's weasely, spiteful, nasty and all around shitty. Period.

You're right Frog. I think I'm still minimising things because the full picture is too hard to accept. Was moaning to a friend after last night's escapades, not someone I say much about the situation to. I was therefore telling them lots of things they didn't know. Afterwards I realised how ridiculous and damaging his behaviour was/is. My friend said he's really childish isn't he, which is spot on.

To answer your question Bonfire he sees the dc twice (used to be 3, he dropped one day) during the week, one is a sleepover. We do 50/50 each weekend. I often offer more sleepovers if it suits us all, and extra days if I have to "take" one of his. He also takes them on holiday, and knows, because I've told him, that I want them to see him as much as possible, so will always be flexible.

All this is informal and agreed only between ourselves.

Oh nice I'm with you there on the minimising. For me I don't think I can handle the bigger picture. I finally spoke out to a friend today about what went on when we were together and when she asked even the vaguest questions I realised I didn't know any of the details. I think I've blanked it all out, which is now what concerns me when making a move towards getting advice. I guess I just have to keep my focus on the light at the end of the tunnel and keep powering through it all..

With regards to childcare arrangements - why have you gone to court? We have had a verbal agreement that I've never let down but I feel he is pushing me through court to either make me give in (to what, I don't know) or to continue his control in my life, knowing it's going to have a big impact on me and very little on him. Making me go through something just for the sake of going through it.

Bonfire I know the Court process is awful but might it prevent, to some extent, his rubbish parenting which then impacts on you? I'm thinking here of him not turning up, being "ill", delayed trains etc. If it's court ordered might it have more force? Apologies if this is an entirely ignorant assumption! I suspect it is.

My ex has only threatened the legal route once, when I didn't agree to 1 out of 4 proposed changes to the contact routine. I offered an alternative which meant he had exactly the same amount of time with them. I said fine, go ahead, I've nothing to fear. Never heard another word about it.

Really glad you spoke to your friend today. I don't think you should let the blank spaces stop you from pursuing help. The right kind of help should allow you to access those memories, if that's what you want to do. I've read a lot recently about PTSD and how it applies to lots of situations that you wouldn't expect. For me it's not in relation to my ex, but something else. Reading about it made a lot of things fall into place. Does this sound of any help?

As for your 3 yr old spending Christmas cooped up with ex, his latest, and her child - god no, with baubles on! You're so right to say no. What, he's going to be doing the whole Christmas thing, my arse. It'll be left to the girlfriend. His track record will hopefully demonstrate he can't be relied upon to provide the necessary care at such a time.

I'm thinking more and more as this thread goes on that we should indeed be the controlling bastards they think we are. My ex has often said you think you always know best. Well actually, in this case, where you and the dc are concerned I bloody well do! I, just like all of you, am a far better parent than him, now and in the future.

No frog He wouldn't want the responsibility! He's changed the days he wants in writing 4 times now! The days I offered we discussed and agreed previously at mediation, and were in the best interests of the kids, nothing fancy just regular and weekly. My friends are convinced this is nothing to do with seeing the children at all and he wouldn't actually care if he never saw them. It is all about control.

He is trying to make out I am unstable (he said I threatened suicide which is absolutely untrue) and he is lying about me stopping him having access (I have proof I have offered and he declined etc) but at the same time he says he has no concerns about my parenting. It is just all about discrediting me I think. And creating a smoke screen around his lies? I just don't know but it is all so fucking wrong and stressful.

Purple

You'll get through it because being truthful gives you the edge that lying, back tracking and fantasising just doesn't. Also, because you'll maintain your dignity and the respect of your children. He might look like he's doing so, but the facade will eventually crack, not tomorrow, but one day.

These men are just despicable and sympathies to us all.

I have done something quite extreme and said would only have indirect contact with my ex twat.

He continued to email me every email starting "I insist you reply to my emails directly blah blah" seriously!!

I spoke to the police after sending several solicitors letter which he ignored all asking him to appoint a third party person to arrange childcare (his latest thing - has seen the children twice in a year).

Anyway they spoke to him and said they will take it further if he keeps contacting me. That was a week ago and i am starting to feel a bit better and like maybe he really will fuck off.

he can see the kids if he wants (which he doesn't seem t want) but at least he can stop bringing me down now (I pray).

I don't want to waste police time and i felt really stupid taking it so far (there was more too it a lot of weird/odd behaviour) but i am on the point of a nervous breakdown with it all and had to do it for my own health and for my children sake. I don't know if that is an option for any of you - just insist he uses a third party person then they can't send their stupid emails etc and mess you about without a witness. They love to portray what fantastic people they are to everyone else I know in my case he wouldn't write what he does to me if it was through a member of his family or something??

Thank you all for your advice and examples of how it's helped you or related to your situation. It has really encouraged me that I can do this. I've been through worse with him so I just need to take a step in the right direction. I need to make a plan of what I want from this. There are zero issues with out arrangements at the moment but it is him moving the goalposts all the time and I just want all that uncertainty and manipulation out of my life. I think no contact is the way for me, for any of us in these situations.

I'm going to see the doctor next week and talk about how I'm feeling etc but I've been through counselling before and it wasn't much use in all honesty. Does anyone have any tips about getting the right help for their mental health in regards to emotional abuse? I think I read that women's aid can assist but I don't know to what extent. I've looked into PTSD a bit, thank you nice, and that's something I need to explore further. I do feel like there are many blanks in the relationship but unsure as to whether it's because I haven't got the energy to think about it or because I've closed the door on those memories.

I feel like I've opened a can of worms, my mind is all over the place with all these questions and worries but I know I need to do it so I can move on and be a proper role model for DD.

donners you've completely done what's best and what you need to do for your situation. You can't get on with your life with him demanding your attention and messing you around. Do you see anyone about your health and how you are feeling?

It's good, but not good, to read these posts as I don't feel alone. It's sad to see how common it is to have a selfish, manipulative co-parent.

My ex has made my 10yr old DD cry so much recently. I'm torn as I work and need some childcare help, but she's getting fed up with listening to their (his and his parents) twisted versions of events.

I'm empathising with everyone who wants to scream the truth at the top of a mountain to cover the lies!

I'm so rubbish at keeping up at the moment. Stressed and tired, losing sleep worrying about his behaviour of course

purple what a shit. How do they do it, how can they tell such serious lies and live with that? Totally agree with what nice said, having the truth on your side is the ultimate card in your favour, yes I have been there too. I was told to remember that they have to prove any allegations they make. He can't do that if it's not true

It's almost like they can't be bothered to be a parent but do it out of spite to us

^This.

bonfire was it national or local women's aid you contacted? Either way I hope they're helpful in some way, you can call them after flashbacks and so on. IME they always listen and it really helps to be able to sob talk it through with someone who understands. It's a big step to make the effort to get that support but you've done the right thing, your wellbeing has to be a priority.

I've been so worried about his complete fucking selfishness (he's not a dangerous parent, but a selfish shit one), I'm thinking about trying mindfulness or something to stop me feeling the weight of it all but am unsure whether I can relax enough to do it. Has anyone tried it? Can we add it to the Survival Guide?

Ooh can I join? My ex is either a Narc or a psychopath or high functioning Aspergers, depending on which professional

Mine too.

I'm inclined to veer towards psychopath/sociopath but the children think ASD. And yes it coukd be ASD as he had two sons who are in the spectrum. Ours who is severely autistic and another who is HF.

Three and a half years into our seperation. I thought it would be getting easier but it's getting worse. He is becoming incensed that our adult children won't be part of his new life and it's all my fault. Ouch!

Oh I took so long to write that through my blurry eyes I cross posted.

bonfire yes WA can help, I think exactly what they can do probably depends on area but they should be able to refer you to someone or at least tell you who else you need to talk to. Also GP if you tell them that it's due to abuse might be able to refer you to appropriate services, ask as many people as you can and you should find someone! And once you get started, it might help to feel you're taking action. You sound so much more positive now

Lilac for you and your DD. Does that mean she sees the lies for what they are? I wanted to ask if there's anything else you can do for childcare but that seems a bit of a stupid question!

Thank you all. 'The truth' is just about the only thing that is keeping me going. I used to say to him that the truth always comes out in the end and I do believe that - I just worry about the path he is taking my children down in the meantime. They feel sorry for him. My DS thinks I am to blame as I 'made' him leave eventually. He cannot comprehend what was actually going on behind the scenes and I wouldn't really want him to. But how do I cope with this? I'm being taken to court with no end of lies being told about me, I know I can mostly disprove things he is saying but mud sticks if you know what I mean and it is such a gamble how it is interpreted by the judge on that day. Also if my DS gets more and more sucked in with his lonely sob stories and pretence that we all would have been a happy family but I ended it, what can I do about that? It feels so hopeless. I am always in a position of defence and it is so draining.

And really thank you all all round. It is fucking shit you are all going through similar and quite depressing, but I feel less alone. Thank you.

It is utterly shit, purple.

Mine is lying through his teeth and wanting full residency of our toddler (FII is one of his accusations)

There are times I really wish I hadn't called the police. One of the things that kept me with him so long was the fear of him going for our child.

Greencar. Just something about mindfulness. I'm not a Buddhist but it's a practice I've been interested in for years. I read about it, have occasionally tried meditation, but find mindfulness more helpful.

I'm not sure I'd say you have to be relaxed to do it. It's more of a conscious decision and then a focus. For example, you've got to go shopping and all you can think of is the crap going through your head that he's been saying. You decide in that moment that he's not there, you don't need to "do" anything about the crap just now, just to focus on the present.

It feels very strange at first but you totally concentrate on what you're doing. In this case being very aware of your surroundings, what you're looking at, what you need. Every time you feel a thought crowding in you just kind of mentally flick it away. It takes quite a lot of practice, but the practice itself is useful.

It kind of changes your time frame as well. Sometimes you feel that he's occupying 100% of your life. But if you can break it down you realise it's a finite amount. I can see that what you're going through at the moment will literally, practically, occupy a large amount of your day. The trick (and I can't always do it) is to stop the mulling/thinking/going over part.

This is the bit that's there when you're trying to do all the other stuff in your life. Being mindful, for me, is remembering that there is a time and place to think/worry about this stuff. But for the here and now I'm with my dc, listening to music, walking, eating, whatever. It's not denial, or ignoring things, just letting them have their place.

I'm no expert by any means. This is just my personal experience. If you looked at someone playing the piano, it would be sad to think they weren't enjoying the experience because they were seething inside about some personal matter. It's about learning to enjoy what's really happening in "that" moment, the music, not the personal matter.

It sounds a bit weird but it's strangely calming. It makes you feel strong as well, like you have a bit of armour. It also makes you feel more in control.

Does anyone know how to get a copy of a police report? I had to call eventually when we were finally splitting up and he has mentioned in the official paperwork that HE was the victim of DA!!! Police report should sort that out but I don't know how to get it?

Hi Purple, if your ExH is asserting that he was the victim, he needs to prove it. You don't have to prove a negative, ie. that he wasn't a victim. In your response, all you need to do is deny it and point out that he hasn't provided any evidence for his assertion. (Mine claimed that I made a false report about him to the police and he was given the opportunity to get information from the police to provide to the court. He never provided it because - surprise! - it wasn't true).

To get info, you can contact your police force and make a subject access request. It can take a few weeks. This is for access any details about you held by them, not details about other people, so you can get your records but not his.

I like your post, nice. I haven't posted for the last day or two because I'm not that bothered about my exH at the moment - I'm enjoying life with dd, just the two of us. I've been out of the relationship longer than most here - more than seven years! - and it really does get better. None of this stuff is going to last forever.

Thank you biblio