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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh

992 replies

besshope · 03/08/2016 07:58

Step this way...
May I start of with a great big ROAR of frustration at having spent many years having to co-parent with someone who (after he left me for OW) has gone out of his way to make my life as difficult as possible. I know there are many of us, so here's a space to share frustrations, tips and experiences.

OP posts:
Ineedmorelemonpledge · 08/09/2016 09:57

Nats my son went on a psychiatric course for children of separation/divorce situations. I was a bit dubious at first but when it finished after 8 weeks it really turned him around. He's almost back to his old self again.

It gave him permission to feel happy in certain situations and not to carry the guilt or blame for the way his father was reacting (and I guess the sadness I was feeling)

It's a shame they don't have these courses in the UK. But I hope your referral will give your DD the chance to feel listened to, and happy again.

I think any normal parent would think - stop, I've driven my child into psychiatry, but with a narc for sure its every one else to blame. Keep telling yourself that you are doing 100% the best for your DD.

I've just been to HR to explain my situation and I think that's all I can do, update, share and hope everyone can be patient while I try and keep my head above water. I wonder how long it will last.

Luckily the HR contact is a single mother with an equally disturbing ex. She's been amazing.

Have a good day everyone. Flowers

Froginapan · 08/09/2016 10:21

He does have me in knots, Ineed.

As for your Ex's games I think the only thing you can do is not rely on him to stick to what he says he'll do - at all. Think of him more as a back-burner option: always have plan a for when plan b(astard) is being his usual self.

Natsku · 08/09/2016 15:24

A psychiatric course like that would be good for DD I reckon, don't know what they do here though.

That's good that your HR is understanding lemonpledge

Just received my ex's appeal to court and it irritates me so much to read all the lies and misrepresentation of the facts in it. And the appeal court has said it can't take into account my request for supervised visits or the recent change in circumstances so starting to get concerned now that they will make a bad decision.

Froginapan · 08/09/2016 16:57

What is he appealing against, Natsku?

Ditto with the lies and misrepresentation.

Natsku · 08/09/2016 18:23

Appealing against the court order which says he's not allowed overnight visits because of his mental health state and he's complaining that's unfair because the court paid too much attention to the social workers' reports instead of just listening to him Hmm

Froginapan · 08/09/2016 19:32

No delusion there what-so-ever, then 😒

MinnieF1 · 08/09/2016 21:07

Oh no Natsku that sounds worrying. Are social services going to be present at the hearing? Do you have any idea what could happen at this stage?

Froginapan · 08/09/2016 21:40

It's such a worry when we're going through court stuff: perhaps it helps to remember that justice means everyone gets a chance to be heard but that doesn't mean they will be agreed with?

I cannot imagine that the input of social services indicating that a child is unsafe with a parent without the right support will be dismissed out of hand.

Natsku · 09/09/2016 07:24

They won't be at the hearing though hopefully we can enter new evidence with a statement from them. He also complained that the social workers' report relied too much on their visits with me - well that would be because he wouldn't answer the phone to them and refused to let them in his house to carry out their assessment!

Having a lot of trouble trying to explain things to DD, any advice on how to explain that she can't see daddy for the time being?

Natsku · 09/09/2016 07:24

She's just 5 years old

Froginapan · 09/09/2016 08:49

Hopefully you'll be able to submit the evidence - it seems ludicrous that a case with a parent with a fluctuating mental illness such as his if they won't allow for the need to have to change contact arrangements.

bibliomania · 09/09/2016 10:14

Remember, the more unreasonable he is in court the better. It's the ones who sound utterly reasonable and convincing that are harder to deal with.

It was my ex's insistence that five different professionals were all biased against him that really swung the judge. That and the fact that he insisted on playing a recording of him encouraging dd to say everyone should stop interfering with their relationship. Spectacular backfire.

Re not seeing dad, does it help her if you just focus on him not being very well at the moment, and once he's better, she'll be able to see him more?

Natsku · 09/09/2016 10:24

Yeah reckon his insistence that its all a conspiracy against him won't look too good to the judge. Well fingers crossed it goes ok, don't know when we'll actually be in court but its even further away this time which makes getting there really difficult for me as I'll have to stay overnight before and after - if I didn't have my OH to look after DD then I'd be quite screwed by court visits.

I'm trying to explain to DD that its because daddy is ill but it doesn't help that every time he calls her he tells her that he's not ill any more.

bibliomania · 09/09/2016 10:31

Worth saying that part of his illness means that it's hard for him to tell whether he is ill or not? I can see that it might be a bit complex for a 5-year old.

Ineedmorelemonpledge · 09/09/2016 15:41

I think a little heart to heart that the judge/doctor etc can only decide when daddy is better, because they are the experts at these things?

Froginapan · 09/09/2016 15:58

I agree with ineed.

In another two-fingers-up-at-me I have been given 5.5 hours notice for a change in contact arrangements which I proposed at the beginning of the week. Ironically it was the offer of more contact that was requested but not granted at our last court hearing. It took over 4 days to decide whether he wanted to accept my offer or not. And yet he insists on 7 days notice for any change in contact arrangements.

Natsku · 09/09/2016 16:02

Tell him you'll give him as much notice as he gives you frog

That's a good idea Ineed will tell her that next time she asks. He called today asking for my lawyer's phone number so he can ask her whether I can decide if the visits go ahead or not Hmm I told him she's away on holiday about twenty times and that he can google her number if he wants but he just wasn't listening.

Froginapan · 09/09/2016 18:46

Wish I could, Natsku, but he'd just add it as another item to his vile character assassination campaign through court.

Natsku · 09/09/2016 19:14

Oh no, that's no good then

nicenewdusters · 09/09/2016 19:52

My post seems very trivial in comparison to those above, but just need a little vent, and any thoughts gratefully received.

Had to slightly alter the day(s) he sees dc this week, so it's been an extra day since he saw them. They missed their usual sleepover so in addition to their usual evening at his tonight I said have a sleepover, all agreed.

My ds was playing outside with other children when he arrived. He ran outside with his pyjamas saying he was going to ask dad if he could take his games console. I said don't ask, you don't need it, and you haven't had it here for the last few days anyway. I saw him get in the car, ex didn't lean over, no kiss or cuddle, hardly seemed to be speaking. My ds was speaking then abruptly jumped out, saying he wasn't going.

I opened the door to him, he was clearly upset, and he came in saying he wasn't going. Basically his dad had told him he was tired, had had a long day and was fed up. He didn't want him to bring the console. My ds then said ok I won't come, to which ex replied ok do what you want.

I spoke to my ds (who was on the brink of tears) and said I understood why dad would rather spend time with him and not have the console on. I said that he should have gone as agreed, but that I also understood why he (ds) was upset. I said come on, let's go outside, but ex had already driven off with other dc.

I'm just so frustrated that ex is so inflexible and it's always about him. He has always found our other dc easier (they are in many ways) but ds picked up on this from an early age, and they had quite a rocky relationship. Ironically it's better since ex left.

My ex is quite old fashioned and traditional, hates technology, thinks kids should still be running around with a hoop and stick ! Like most parents I'm conscious of trying to limit time on consoles, but I also recognise they're part of most children's lives now. Given the dc will be there until tomorrow morning I don't think it would have been unreasonable for him to take his console, and say be limited to an hour on it?

Why would a parent lose the opportunity to spend time with their child over a stupid console? Of course it'll be my fault. Ex doesn't think he should have it anyway, so this will just feed into that. The sad thing is I can see my ds's respect and feelings for his dad chipped away each time these situation arise.

Natsku · 09/09/2016 20:10

Can see why he said no to the console but to not take ds over it? That's really cruel :(

nicenewdusters · 09/09/2016 20:23

Thanks Natsku. It was my son's decision not to go (he's 9), and ex could argue why should I give in to him? But I agree it's cruel. Why not say I'd rather you didn't bring it, but get it and we'll sort it later. But no, it's all so black and white. If one of my children refused to come somewhere with me, for whatever reason, I'd like to think there was a compromise. I don't understand that he can just dismiss his ds's feelings like that.

greencarbluecar · 09/09/2016 20:39

It's not modelling reasonable behaviour, is it? Or showing consideration for how other people feel. I can understand saying he wanted to spend time with him rather than on the console, but, why drive off without him if spending time with his ds is his main priority?

As you say he had plenty of other options and could so easily have compromised. But instead he's effectively said "you do what I want or I will punish you". Which sounds rather familiar.

It's so awful that DC have to learn that their fathers are shits. How is your DS now?

nicenewdusters · 09/09/2016 21:06

Thanks greencar. My ds is fine. He appears to recover quickly from these episodes, but of course you don't know what's going on inside. He's very close to me, you could say clingy, which I think is a by-product of his dad's behaviour towards him. I think deep down he feels more relaxed with me, he knows I accept him. I probably over compensate sometimes, but I'm desperate for him to know that one of us loves him unconditionally.

Really interesting to read your comments. I think I've normalised a lot of my ex's behaviours, it's good to see what a third party thinks.

greencarbluecar · 09/09/2016 21:35

Glad he's recovered quickly nice, knowing you love and accept him unconditionally must contribute a lot to his ability to do that.

I know what you mean about normalising their behaviour. I suppose it is normal, for selfish dickhead controlling narcissists who always put themselves first.

Driving off and leaving his 9 yr old DS because he didn't submit to his wishes, FFS. I'm disgusted just reading about it. But I kind of want to say well done to your DS for not being bullied into it and knowing he could come back to you.