support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh

[besshope]

Step this way...
May I start of with a great big ROAR of frustration at having spent many years having to co-parent with someone who (after he left me for OW) has gone out of his way to make my life as difficult as possible. I know there are many of us, so here's a space to share frustrations, tips and experiences.

Keeping secrets is not a good precedent to set, hopefully you can explain to your DS why he shouldn't keep secrets, just surprises.

My local social workers (and the ones where I lived previously who had to deal with the false allegation shit) are fab biblio full of respect for them and the hard job they do.

Yes, I had a pretty good experience with all the social workers I've dealt with too.

Biblio. Could you call your ex's bluff ? Tell him you've seen his FB posts and you know he's refusing to talk to your daughter on the phone. Let him know she's really upset, and to save her feelings, not his, you've so far been vague about why dad hasn't been in touch.

Give him a deadline to contact her, and say if he misses it you will be telling your daughter that dad is safe and well, but choosing not to contact her as he's being mean and playing games. Obviously you won't be telling her this, but he doesn't know that?

Thanks for the suggestion, nice. I have thought about it, and I'd do it if I thought it would help dd, but lord knows what he would say to her on the phone if he is in the mood to stir up drama. I think I'm going to be all grey rock and just not do anything about it.

I hadn't thought about him being difficult on the phone to your daughter Biblio, I was thinking if you could only actually get him to speak to her he'd be ok. I'm still pretty naive when it comes to all this ! Grey rock sounds like your only option. Maybe when he sees his games with you aren't getting a response he'll talk to your dd because he wants to. What a fool he is.

Have to see my ex tonight because we're taking DD to the hospital and obviously he wants to meet us there in case its something serious which I completely understand but I don't know how I'll keep my calm if he starts arguing about the visits which I expect he will

Biblio it sounds like you have the measure of your ex. Ignoring him sounds like a good idea from what you've said about him. He sounds like a petulant brat.

Sorry to hear that you think your ex might become difficult Natsku. Can you take somebody else with you, and maybe get them to wait in the car. But ask them to come to find you if you text them saying ex is being difficult? Hope all goes well and he is calm!

DS has been telling a bit more about grandad tonight and it sounds like they have skyped/video called. Apparently grandad dropped the phone when he was on the beach.

DS also said that grandad and daddy said mummy can 'go away'. How much of this is a three year olds imagination and how much is true I don't know. DS does have form for recounting events in a very detailed and precise way, so it might well be true!

As ex's parents live abroad I suspect they are video calling so DS recognises them when they come home for Christmas. I don't have a problem with this, but I have decided to speak to ex and make it crystal clear that he never tells DS to keep a secret from me ever again. Or else this will be happening most weekends from now until Christmas.

Does this sound like I am being reasonable to you all? I will tell ex that he is free to Skype is parents with DS, but that he is not to tell DS that he can't tell anyone.

Sorry if I keep rambling. I'm just really glad to have found people who understand how difficult it is to co-parent with a selfish arsehole!

I hope it's nothing serious for you DD and that she recovers soon.

Thankfully they only allow one parent in the bed area so he is in the waiting room and away from me. Just hope he doesn't start arguing with my OH who is waiting too (he drove us)

I think that sounds reasonable minnie

I think my Xh is a high functioning narc, if there is such a thing. Superficially we manage to get on OK, but dp pointed out at the weekend he treats me like one of his employees. He tells me when and where I can collect the dcs from him if he's has them and when he's available to see them. Everything is on his terms.

Recently I asked him if he'd have the dcs so I could go on a 3 night work training course (overseas, a total one off!) he responded by letting me know that he believed this put him into the 104 days plus threshold and he'd do it but would be reducing maintenance accordingly. He's a high earner so the difference would be considerable. The thing is, I have records and he does nowhere near that level, he messes us all about so much that he rarely even does a full weekend. He will argue that black is white and is so bloody entitled and convincing.

My only strategy is to keep any communication short and sweet, there is just no point engaging. It is totally wearing though as I keep having to remember I can't relate to him on the same level, he just can't do it.

Gosh he sounds selfish and obtuse. Best to keep communications to a minimum as you say.

You're right about not being able to relate to them in a 'normal' way. They look like they are humans, but they don't behave or think like humans.

If I didn't have to deal with it every week then I'd find the psychology behind NPD and domestic abuse fascinating.

Hope your dd is okay, Natsku. I think that sounds like a reasonable approach, Minnie. Wave to whirly.

And.....finally the big reveal of the cunning plan underlying exH's radio silence. He spoke to dd last night - turns out there is a big event this Saturday (not his normal day with dd) and he wants dd to go with him so everyone will do the "Oh, isn't x such a great father" thing.

It clashes with an event I've pre-booked with dd that lasts for 4 hours. I said he could see her before those 4 hours, after them, any time the next day etc. No, he would not discuss any other arrangement to see her, and just told dd to keep asking me if she could go with daddy. And dd, who has spent a week grappling with an ever-increasing sense of abandonment, is convinced that if she didn't go with him, she might never see him again so sobbed and sobbed to be allowed to go.

And you know what - all he had to do in the first place was ask. I don't actually have a problem with the event itself. But no, he preferred to spend a week deliberately making his child more and more confused and miserable because it give him a better shot at getting his own way.

I'm going to give in. If I thought he'd learn from my saying no, I'd say no, but he won't change, and it would just feed into his narrative about me trying to ruin his relationship with his child. Would dd learn something about not giving in to manipulation? I don't know. I don't know if I'm teaching her that you give into manipulation for the sake of a few crumbs of affection. I told her I didn't like her dad's behaviour, but I cared more about her getting to have a good time (and it will be - exH will be in high feather at his success in being a puppet-master). I'm pretty sure she gets what he's doing, although she's doesn't fully acknowledge it.

And this is as close to a happy ending as you get with a narcissist - the moment of peace after they get their own way. That sounds bitter - I genuinely don't mind about the event and am happy for dd to go. I just can't believe he would be willing to treat her like this. Why am I surprised when he did it to me all the time? You just don't think someone will deliberately hurt their child like that.

I thought about that, Fidelia, but even if I say no, he'll count it as a "win" because I'm the bad guy standing between him and dd having a good time together.

And if he does it again, dd is not going to be as confused by it again. She's giving him the benefit of the doubt this time (maybe he had the flu! Maybe his phone was charging for, you know, a whole week!) but she'll be rather more cynical next time round.

But I'm open to the possibility that I'm wrong and that I'm just doing the easy thing.

Oh, you're right. I'm tired of him taking up this much of my brainspace. There are other things I could be doing with it!

DD is fine though her dad managed to talk his way through into the bed area and refused to leave so the last hour or so was very unpleasant, sitting there listening to him calling me sick and deranged in front of DD.

Bloody hell, Natsku, that's the last thing you need beside your child's hospital bed!

I tried asking the nurse to make him leave but I guess I didn't really get my point across well enough (second language). Luckily DD was oblivious to it, just looking at a princess magazine. Although it was quite satisfying telling him (very quietly so DD couldn't hear) that I had spoken to the social workers and he wouldn't be having the unsupervised visits for the time being.

Biblio - my blood was boiling just reading your post. What a nasty calculated move. I think in your position I would have made the same choice. Your dd's happiness will always outweigh any points you wish to score or make against him.

As a pp suggested, I would be tempted to put in writing (text/email) your understanding of exactly what he's been up to. Show him that you can read him like a book. Remind him that children are very canny, and that as she grows his dd will start to see the disconnect between his failure to contact her, and sudden announcements of Disney Dad day's out. It won't change him, but they like to think they're one step ahead, so the occasional trip up is satisfying.

Natsku - glad your dd is ok. Pleased you had a moment of satisfaction.

My ex is still being uncharacteristically reasonable. Actually responding to texts about the dc and without being nasty. He's either met somebody else (fingers crossed), had a personality transplant (NHS?!) or something else (my money's on this one!).

Thanks nice - enjoy the reasonableness while it lasts!

Fidelia - interesting about the golden one, mine does a high profile, worthy kind of job that he basks in. The public image he presents is devoted family man, but to maintain that image he has umpteen people running around after him behind the scenes. He'd have done well in politics. Brass neck like I've never seen before.

I also find the psychology absolutely fascinating. So much so, I studied it for a while afterwards.

Thought for the day oh strong ones!