support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh

[besshope]

Step this way...
May I start of with a great big ROAR of frustration at having spent many years having to co-parent with someone who (after he left me for OW) has gone out of his way to make my life as difficult as possible. I know there are many of us, so here's a space to share frustrations, tips and experiences.

Here is a great article on the hoover technique -www.goodtherapy.org/blog/hoover-maneuver-the-dirty-secret-of-emotional-abuse-0219154

Dusters that sounds like a fantastic idea! Place them all on an island with no mobile or internet signal I say!

Just dropping in to say hi, I posted earlier on thread and often pop back to see that lots of what you all say happens daily/weekly with my ex.

Ds doesn't want to go to his dad's, he mostly doesn't and very rarely wants to stay overnight. Every weekend is like tip toeing around and being anxious about what reaction this will bring. Ex is narc, self centered and downright awful. He binge drinks which leads to massive hangovers and mood swings and doesn't prioritise. Sadly I think ds(5) knows this and keeps his distance. Ex sees it as mood swings from ds, that he is spoilt and pampered and that as ds is his son, why should he make an effort to plan things like days out or even trips to the park.

I've spent 3 years trying to keep the peace but mostly trying to keep ds happy and safe, as we all do. There is no point trying to reason with ex or point out the error in his ways, he deflects it and gets nasty. Just last week he called ds a gimp and a baby, amongst things like "little girl" because he wanted to come home. The name calling is normal to ex, he doesn't see an issue with it. I of course do and reinforce to ds that this isn't right and that daddy is just being silly.
We have done court preciously(my doing) and the name calling towards ds may well lead us there again.

The grey stone thingy resonated with me, I'm getting much much better at this. I keep things calm and polite and never provocate or engage with him but I can see things escalating soon and I'm having to mentally find some strength. Thank you for sharing, it really helps to know I'm not alone in this relentless battle

Natsku does he have a mobile phone? The police would be able to cell site him and find out his area if he did kidnap her (if he took his phone with him of course). If there's a court order stating no overnight contact they they would have the power to remove her from him and bring her back to you.

Although whether they would or not I don't know. My experience of the police hasn't been too great if I'm honest.

Interesting about the hoovering technique. I'm certainly going to give that article a read later. My ex is definitely in mr nice guy mode. He has been for the last two months which I find disturbing if I'm honest. He has never managed more than a week in the past. No doubt things will kick off again when I mention the drug dealing father in law. I might let my solicitor handle that one with him.

Interesting article donners. My experience hasn't been a roller coaster of nice/nasty. He chose to say that as I didn't want him there was nothing between us. I reminded him of the small matter of our children. He appears to have tried to cope with my leaving by pretending I don't exist.

I've bumped into him once when he was out with the kids. My dc was saying look dad, it's mum, over and over. He completely ignored me and walked on. It was heartbreaking for my son, I still can't believe he couldn't just say hello. So it's just been short, sharp texts, and messages relayed via our eldest. He doesn't hassle me, it's just a void.

Hi Nyron that sounds stressful. And very similar to my ex too re binge drinking an name calling (aren't all these men a delight!!).

Would you feel able to confront your ex about the name calling, and the fact it is a form of emotional abuse? I completely understand if you don't. I get my solicitor to deal the 'bad news' to ex as I don't feel emotionally strong enough to confront him.

Does anybody have any suggestions for improving self confidence? I never used to be timid or frightened of confronting somebody if they were genuinely in the wrong. Since all of this my confidence has been rock bottom. We've been broken up for nearly three years so I can't really see it getting better unless I get some proper help. I have already done the freedom programme online. I was thinking about maybe asking for counselling, but I wouldn't really know what to say to the GP to get the process started.

My ExH has tried to encourage our DS (14) to believe that I am the bad guy. He keeps changing plans last minute, or demanding I pay for visitations, or saying that I have ruined his relationship with his son. He then says to DS that I hate him (ExH) and that it is like walking on eggshells around me to his DS. He indulges DS totally and gives him total freedom which undermines me when I try to put some parental limits on my son.

I have him 90% of the time but I do think ExH would be happy to poison my own relationship with DS just to spite me.

Minnie and Nyron and all - that does all sound very wearing and would sap anyone's confidence.

I found the only thing helping me was as much physical and mental distance as I possibly could. And building up my own life as much as possible with work, friends, social life, meaningful hobbies. Also, having a boyfriend now has suddenly made me feel far more confident as he is appalled by my ExHs Behaviour.

minnie there's no point confronting sadly. He reacts like a cornered ally cat, attack attack attack. He will brush it off and say "I was joking, you're trying to make me out to be a monster" etc. he always minimizes his behavior, always excuses it. I'm mentally strong to be honest, I know he's wrong, I know he's all kinds of fucked up. He brings very little to ds life and I spend my time building ds up making up for what his dad does or doesn't do. Touch wood ds seems unfazed, although not being bothered about seeing his dad isn't great. It's a culmination of years of having his dad be late, not turn up, lie watching tv and basically acting like a 12 year old which has led to this.

If I could wave a wand and have ds skip of to a loving, normal father and have a wonderful time I would. But I can't, I'm as positive as I absolutely can be about ex to ds, I'm as positive about contact as I can be. I send stuff with him, I give ex ideas about what to do. Have never withheld contact yet if you's spoke with ex he genuinely believes I'm a witch who tried to prevent contact with "his son". It's bullshit but sadly ex believes it, makes himself believe it I think.

He has totally re-written many a conversation or action. He tells me things about our time at court which are totally false- I was there!! But he believes it, a million per cent believes what he says and does is right and completely normal.

I'm sure he has some form of mental illness, or personality disorder. It won't ever change. It's like playing chess against a grandmaster, I'm constantly keeping the peace and stonewalling to prevent an eruption. It's exhausting, but necessary to protect ds

Minnie Would you feel comfortable briefly explaining the situation to your GP? I did that when I realised my confidence was shot to bits (I used to be just how you describe as well) and explained what he was like and that I wanted some support to recover. I had to speak to a few different people but the end result was that I got some individual support from the local domestic abuse services, I think general counselling through GP services was an option too.

Or maybe you could try phoning your local women's aid directly? It probably works differently in different areas, in terms of who you go through to get support.

Did you find the Freedom Programme helpful?

Minnie - I think counselling could be an option for you, but be careful about the type of counsellor you see. Psychodynamic therapy would probably be less helpful. You are aware of the reasons for your current lack of confidence, you don't need to spend weeks or months looking back into your past. A person centred approach might be useful, to explore your feelings and experiences and validate why you feel as you do. Cognitive Behavioural Therapy can be great if you're stuck, so to speak. It's very practical, looks at the here and now, and gives you tools to change your mindset and therefore behaviours.

Maybe Google the different types of counselling available and then see your GP, when you have something in mind. Lots of GP practices have their own dedicated counsellor these days.

Have you ever read any books by Dorothy Rowe ? She's a very well-known therapist, sold millions of books, she's now in her 80s. One called "Beyond Fear" is amazing, deals with all sorts of issues arising from difficult and traumatic life events. They're not the woo self-help type, just really practical and helpful.

Finally, there's a publishing house called Windhorse Publications, they're a Buddhist organisation. I've read several of their books and they're quite beautiful, calming and interesting, and I've found much of what I've read has helped me in difficult times.

Hi Green, sorry to hear you've experienced similar. I think I will go to the GP and also contact the local women's aid.

I found the freedom programme helpful as it really described ex's behaviour and helped me to understand why he behaved that way. I also found Why Does He Do That? By Lundy Bancroft to be really helpful and explaining his behaviour as well as his family's dynamics (he has an enabling mother and an abusive father).

It still hasn't helped me with my confidence though. I was hoping that would just happen overtime but it hasn't. I also think I may have gone 'too far' in that I see red flags everywhere and refuse to have another relationship just in case it happens again. I don't think I should still feel and think like this after three years. My dad was also abusive which may explain my feelings?

Thanks dusters. I will have a look at the books you mention. I was thinking of trying CBT as my mum and sister both had this after my parents divorce.

Just looking at my last post, please don't think I imagine reading the type of books I've mentioned will help anybody deal with a grade A delusional ex. As so many posters have said, it's just dealing with the impossible and the unreasonable. My approach has been about me, finding ways to keep me on track and obtaining some peace of mind.

Sorry to hear it didn't help with your confidence Minnie but thanks for explaining what it does. My situation does sound similar, I think he also has enabling/abusive parents which goes some way to explaining what he sees as acceptable behaviour now.

I wouldn't say I'm back to full confidence yet, but it's early days and I have found it really helpful to be able to talk about it, both having some space for me and being able to process things, but also just for the support and the reassurance that it's him not me, my reactions are 'normal' (I see red flags everywhere too, I wonder how many of the seemingly nice people I know are actually twisted abusers, I worry about going out where he knows people, etc) in these circumstances and that although he pretty much completely deconstructed me and my life, there is hope for the future.

Good luck, you deserve to get yourself back

Minnie - just wanted to say I totally get the seeing red flags everywhere. Up to a few weeks ago I'd been distancing myself from lots of people in my life. I had decided I couldn't totally trust my friends, my neighbours, family - anyone really. Some was justified, most not.

I've thought a lot about it, and I think that who I actually can't trust 100% anymore is myself. I had very weak boundaries in places, but I've raised them so high nobody now fits the bill ! Which is ridiculous. I'm trying to see that I have to raise my boundaries, but that we're all fallible, and I have to have realistic expectations of people. I will be let down again etc, and I'll do the same, but it's the scale and proportion that matters.

I can't even imagine meeting anybody else because like you, I would be spotting red flags at every turn. I don't trust myself at this point to know who would be good for me, and me for them. I'm 18 months down the line.

for us all !

Thanks green, you too. I'm sure we will all get there in the end.

I could have written that post dusters. It explains exactly how I feel. As soon as somebody does something which shows they aren't 100% perfect and faultless, I immediately think they must be an abuser! I know I am being ridiculous, but it's like the fight or flight in me can't be switched off. Although I don't act on it.

Yes lots of for us all

He does have a mobile Minnie but when he disappears he doesn't take it with him (its happened a few times, just by himself though thankfully)

Going to have a read of that hoovering article tomorrow

Therapy is helping me with my confidence - I'm having CBT therapy and my therapist lent me a book about Lifetraps and schemas and that explained a lot of things and has some concrete methods of escaping those lifetraps so I'm slowly working on them and my confidence has definitely improved. I'm able to say no firmly to my ex now and end the conversation when before I'd end up giving in all the time.

Interesting what people are saying about seeing red flags everywhere. I've been single for seven years since splitting up with ex, and I don't know how much is because "once bitten, twice shy", how much is the difficulty of meeting people when you have a child with you most of the time, and how much is me just liking being single.

Ex didn't turn up for contact, and sent an email 2 hours beforehand saying he was ill. Maybe he was, but combined with the fact that he hasn't answered dd's phonecalls or texts for the last week, it feels like there is some kind of underlying plot. (Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean that they're not plotting....)

Sounds like a plot, why else would he not answer her calls or texts? I think its very sad not to answer :(

I called DD's social worker today, couldn't explain the situation very well because of the language barrier so OH is going to email a fuller explanation to her after work but she said that if I'm really concerned that he's ill again and its unsafe for DD to be with him then I have the right to refuse the contact despite the court order so that's a relief.

Biblio that's such a shame for your poor DD about the contact. Did she seem upset by this, or does she believe he is genuinely ill?

DS has told me this morning that grandma and grandad have gone back the the beach and they have a boat (they live abroad). He also told me that he 'can't tell' me anything else. I am assuming ex has video called his parents during contact with DS. This isn't an issue in itself, but telling DS to keep secrets is not good! He is only 3 by the way.

He doesn't know his grandparents on his dad's side so he won't have plucked this information from nowhere. He also calls my parents different names (granny and grandpa) and we don't talk about grandma and grandad, so I'm pretty certain this has come from my ex. I'm just not sure why my ex felt the need to persuade DS to keep it a secret?

I am going to reinforce to DS later that we don't keep secrets and he can tell me anything he wants to. The little bit of trust I was getting back for ex has gone now. I just feel really uneasy that he would encourage DS to keep secrets, even if it isn't a noteworthy one!

Has anyone else got experience with this sort of thing? I'm not going to mention it to ex unless DS mentions any other, more serious, 'secrets' in the future. I'll let my solicitor know though.

That's reassuring for you Natsku. Will your ex seek medical help do you think?

He won't seek medical help, it'll have to be forced on him. He's been sectioned twice in the last few years and I expect it'll happen again soon (usually happens in the autumn). I'm half tempted to call his dad and ask if he has concerns too as he might be able to get the doctors to assess him to see if he needs to be back in the hospital but I really hate his dad so don't like to call him.

Good that you've got the social worker on side, Natsku.

Totally agree with not liking "let's keep secrets", Minnie. I agree with not saying it to your ex at this point - with this kind of person, as soon as you ask them not to do something, they think "Score!" and redouble their efforts. At 3, it's still possible that your ds was just getting a bit muddled though. My dd told me her dad had taken her to China for the day at that age.