support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh

[besshope]

Step this way...
May I start of with a great big ROAR of frustration at having spent many years having to co-parent with someone who (after he left me for OW) has gone out of his way to make my life as difficult as possible. I know there are many of us, so here's a space to share frustrations, tips and experiences.

Hi biblio. It's unlikely that he will be reasonable about it. I'm not sure he knows how to be reasonable when he is being challenged/ not getting his own way.

I am really angry at him for placing me in this situation. Any chance of me having a civil relationship with him and/or his new partner is out of the window now (but that was probably never a realistic prospect anyway).

Does anyone else feel like they are the 'bad guy' all of the time? I know I have only ever taken appropriate steps to safeguard DS, so I don't think I actually am the 'bad guy'. But I feel like I am constantly saying no to things.

I guess what I mean is that I feel like exP is constantly creating difficult situations which I have to respond to and it feels never ending. I am exhausted by having to be the sensible one!

How I envy people who have workable relationships with their nice, reasonable ex partners!

Minnie - I understand being painted as the bad guy. It's tiring, you're always trying to anticipate their next move so as to minimise the fall out. Like you I know I have my priorities right. I also know I'm fair. I sometimes run a scenario past a friend, kind of would you do this, d'you think this is fair ? I am conscious of being too close sometimes to see the alternative point of view, so I do check myself.

I too envy those people with reasonable partners. I feel this is the thing I would most like to be able to give my children. Even now I would be prepared to meet with him and try and sort our parenting out. He just can't do it. He doesn't have the strength of character, can't put his feelings aside. At least my son doesn't have him as such a strong role model in his life. He comes from a line of controlling, arrogant men. Thank god my son is out of that.

Thanks for the reply nicenewdusters. I also run scenarios past friends and family and occasionally my solicitor (like with the latest news about drugs). It really is soul destroying to know that people I was friends with now think so little of me because of his lies.

I am over it in the sense that I don't miss those friends, and I have realised they were never very good friends to begin with. But I still don't like to think that people believe I'm an awful person when I'm not. We live in a small town and he has spread his lies as far and wide as he can. People I've never even met say I'm a horrible person/vindictive/spiteful etc. I get so anxious about bumping into them in the local shop/doctors/cafe etc. to the point I never walk anywhere. I will drive to the next town to run errands or go to the park with DS etc.

That aspect of this situation has really ground me down and destroyed my confidence, more so than the domestic abuse I think. It will be a good 2-3 years before I can afford to move to a house in the next town.

At least you're breaking the cycle with your ds, nice.

That's awful about people believing lies about you, Minnie. ExH has given some people a bad impression about me, and it's an odd sensation when someone you've never interacted with gives you a big glare for no obvious reason. I haven't lost existing friends over it though, and I live in a big enough town for it not to matter very much.

I don't know if exH tells lies directly, or if he just hints darkly that there are terrible things he could say about me if he wasn't such a noble character (very like Peter Andre about Katie Price).

Minnie I totally get the 'bad guy thing . My kids went back to school today. I've sent approx 5 emails since Easter sorting out summer holiday arrangements, 4 of these included today's date as going back to school. I Got muddled up with dates in my last email and gave a date next week by accident. Cue my youngest in hysterics last night because XH had said I'd told him the wrong date and he wouldn't now be there to see other DD going into secondary school on her first day. I politely pointed out that I'd made a mistake but had told him previously the correct date and hinted that he could do what I have to do and check the school websites .... it was as polite a message as you can send. But this, apparently, was me attacking him. Absolutely bonkers, he can't check a sodding web site so the one time I slip up date wise in seven sodding years makes me the bad guy in our youngests eyes .....

On no Chloe that sounds so stressful and very similar to my ex's parents too. Particularly about the way they choose to interpret a polite email.

Have you decided what you will do in future re email contact? I have found that removing all support from my ex has pushed him to stand on his own two feet. This has lead to him failing to make plans properly, but at least he can't blame me! Would you be able to cut down your contact with him?

ARGH!!! For some stupid stupid reason I spoke to my ex on the phone today and let myself get dragged into an argument full of gaslighting. He has suddenly decided that things are going great between us (because I decided not to mention the border control thing to him at all before court) and thought it was a perfectly fine idea to say to DD "Go tell mummy that you love being at my house and ask mummy to let you come to my house" even though he full well knows that she is not allowed to go to his house, the court was quite clear about that. When I told him so, he said we can just make a new agreement and ignore the court order and that I'm a terrible terrible mum and I'm keeping him away from DD etc. etc.

He keeps telling DD that he's well now (he said to me that his psych nurse said he's cured now - I read his medical papers and all she said is that he was not currently experiencing delusions, that doesn't mean cured!!) and that she can go to his if mummy just says yes. Its confusing her and upsetting her :(

I think he's getting his delusions again now though and really ought to be going back to the psych ward but there's no persuading him and I expect he's avoiding his doctors now.

Natsku that sounds really hard
to you and to everyone on here, struggling with all this crap. I always think that my exh taught me the true and literal meaning of the word unreasonable. You just cannot reason with them. No point trying. They will not see reason or behave reasonably. I also totally get it with the hints about something awful you've done! Does your head in.

Really does your head in. Its upsetting my OH too, seeing how it upsets me and worrying about the effect on DD. I think I need to call DD's social worker tomorrow and ask for a meeting to talk about this, maybe they'll recommend stopping the visits for the time being if he's getting ill again.

Hi Natsku. Would you want to contact the police over this latest incident? I don't know the history of your situation, so I'm sorry if that is not an appropriate suggestion.

I don't know what your ex's diagnosis is, and it is certainly possible that he's unwell again. But it sounds very much like he is deliberately using your daughter to make you feel guilty and give in to his demands.

Whether he is ill or is being deliberately devious, the impact on your daughter is very much the same either way. I think talking to the social worker about suspending visits for the time being would be a good idea. It might give you the chance to get some space from it all too.

I am so sorry about the map attached to my last post. I was debating on the 'where does the north west begin' thread and never removed the attachment

Well always good to know where the north begins!

No point contacting the police about it, the social workers are the best point of contact I think. Going to call them and ask for a meeting so my OH can come with me and translate (some things are just too complex for me to explain in Finnish). Ex is really trying to push me to go against the court order, I'm sure that won't look good to the social workers. He has delusional disorder, he was talking quite confusedly on the phone, not remembering some things and thinking things happened quite differently, whether he was just gaslighting or genuinely believes what he was saying is hard to tell.

Natsku, that's really tough to deal with. Glad you've got support from your DH.

bess, I know what you mean about learning the true meaning of unreasonable. I've got to the point where I quite enjoy watching mediators/social workers/lawyers/judge wrinkle their foreheads and try to work out what exH means. They think there must be some logic there, if only they can disentangle it, but no matter how they try, there isn't.

My favourite is the "damned if you do, damned if you don't". Where the options are x or y, exH will rave equally whether I choose option x or option y. It simplifies things really - when there is no pleasing somebody, you might as well just suit yourself (only it's not yourself - you try to minimise the fallout for the dcs).

frog I struggle with missing the 'person' I loved so much too. I think now I've been away from him for a while I get selective memory about what he was like (self preservation?) and remember the loving, caring man. And then I have to interact with him and remember that was all a great big charade. That realisation hurts, but I find it helps to try and remember that it is a loss, and allow myself to grieve for the man I thought was real and the life I thought we'd have, whilst reminding myself of the many reasons why I left and why it was the right thing to do.

Something that's really helped with that is reading and rereading Living with the Dominator as it reminds me of all the seemingly innocent or insignificant things he did that slowly broke me down. I've just started the one about charming man syndrome as well and it's already given me a few omg that's him moments.

More and to all. KOKO xx

Minnie - I've cut contact down a lot. I had to get a different mobile number due to his aggressive texting. I only email where necessary but will try and cut it down more. Youngest has come home today with a letter full of dates but XH will just have to sort that with school himself. Absolute bare minimum from this end now. At least then I can't get it wrong!!

Biblio that's so true - you can never do the right thing. I do the same - what suits the kids and I best is what happens ....

HOLD THE FRONT PAGE !

I received a text today from my ex that was, well, normal ! I had sent a couple of nice informative texts (that he didn't deserve), then another one this morning. His reply was that he wouldn't have the kids for an extra sleepover tonight because, due to working early tomorrow, he felt it would be unfair on them to get them up so early.

I think this is the first text about them (unless he's got a hot date - which is very unlikely) and not him. He recently missed out on something because I had given up texting due to his nasty responses. Maybe, just maybe, he now realises that his attitude is counter productive. I'm killing him with kindness, as I refuse to become a different person when communicating with him. Don't know how long this will last - on either side - but 1 text seems an achievement just now.

MinnieF1 - I loved your inadvertent use of a map ! I couldn't think what it was going to be about, perhaps suggesting an area of England where dreadful ex partners could all be forced to live together ?

Nice

The optimist in me wants to hope that a corner has been turned but alas this is probably just a brief reprieve.

IME these personality types simply don't change: it's likely a change of direction to throw you off guard.

I had something similar recently but I know that it's simply more game-playing.

Agree with Frog - I'll get the occasional terribly polite text or two but then within a day/week it's back to normal :(

Ex was supposed to have visitation today but after he called my OH last night telling him that I lie about everything and trying to get my OH to force me to let DD go to his overnight I decided this morning to cancel the visit day. My OH is actually scared now that my ex is a danger to DD, that if he saw her today he would take her off and not come back with her.

I have to say I've realised reading this that it's happened to me too, not long ago we briefly had a perfectly amicable exchange (which in hindsight set me back a bit as his charm was in evidence) but I was ignored as usual later...the same day. But, even if it is game-playing nice if he's considering the kids then great, take it as a win even if it is a one-off. Small victories

Natsku that sounds frightening, what would the legal situation be if he didn't return her? So glad you've got your OH for support.

Natsku - good call on your part, you know what's best for your dd, and great that your OH is behind you on this.

Frog and Chloe: I agree with you both. I'm not getting my hopes up. Even if he's just playing nice because it makes his life better, that'll be better for all of us. I suppose there's a part of me that's hoping the good man I knew once will come through to be a parent with me. Deep down I know I'm more likely to win the X Factor (!) but when it's about your kids you just keep hoping.

I've been toying with the idea of meeting with him to try and get past the "us" so we can communicate about them. I think however I'd find it too painful. If he was unkind and unpleasant it would set me back in terms of coming to terms with our split. Although my focus is the children, I know I still have to protect myself.

IME they are only nice to try and get one over you, just wait a few days and you will probably find out why he is pretending to be nice. It won't be because he is a good guy and you've misjudged him in the past I can assure you!!

I definitely don't trust any niceness anymore, its always part of a plan to reduce our defences so they can hurt us more.

Not sure what the legal situation would be if he didn't return her. He's done it before but that was when we didn't have a written custody agreement so the police and social workers could do nothing and I had to literally kidnap her to get her back (thankfully the police said it wasn't a crime in my situation). But now there's the court order that says he can't have her overnight then maybe they would be able to remove her from him but there's a good chance he would just disappear with her where no one could find him as the few friends he does have are the criminal kind who would know safe houses to hide and that kind of thing.

goodness natsku that sounds incredibly stressful

I believe the niceness is called 'hoovering' and tend to ignore it too, although like you say, mr nice guy is certainly preferable to mr nasty.